Does Mal have what it takes?

[Gobsmacked]

Mal Meninga’s departure from coaching the Canberra Raiders (1997–2001) was primarily driven by underwhelming on-field performance, a struggling roster in the post-Super League era, and intense, sometimes confrontational, relationships with players. While often described as a resignation or a mutual split, it followed a period of inconsistency where the team failed to achieve the high standards set during his playing days.
The main causes for his departure included:

• Poor 2001 Season and Lack of Results: Following his appointment in 1997, Meninga achieved only moderate success. The 2001 season saw the Raiders finish in 11th place (out of 14 teams) and fail to qualify for the finals, prompting the club to look for a change, ultimately replacing him with Matthew Elliott.
• Post-Super League Roster Instability: The team was in a difficult transition phase, struggling with the normalization of the game after the Super League war. The club lacked the dominant forward packs that had defined their previous success, and Meninga had to integrate younger players into the squad.
• Confrontational Player Relations: Meninga admitted that, as an inexperienced coach, he struggled with "honest conversations" with players, which sometimes became "argumentative" and "physical". The influx of high salaries during the Super League era meant "egos grew," and he often struggled to manage the squad during tense, "360 feedback" sessions.
• Defensive Vulnerabilities: Despite fostering a physical, forward-driven style, the team struggled with persistent defensive issues.

So what's changed? Has Mal changed for the better? Has the game changed to a style more suitable to his coaching? Does he now have the right people around him?

It's going to take a lot, as Perth struggles to build a club from scratch, the roster will be underwhelming, the travel exhausting and the facilities sub par..

Does Mal have what it takes?

 

[SirPies&Beers]

I'll use pure stats, data and numbers for this because at the end of the day thats all people will be able to reference once the eye testers are long gone.

Mal Meninga - Coaching Career - RLP

A summary of the career stats for Mal Meninga's career achievements stand like a colossus in the code. The shy teenager who developed into one of the finest Australian captains in international sport, first represented Queensland U'18s while playing for Wide Bay in 1977. The following year...

www.rugbyleagueproject.org

Club or representative, actual coaching or purely managing (with assistances employed for tactics/strategies) these are the numbers, the stats, the data and the correct information.


Narratives, opinions, context can be what it'll be but its the numbers that'll last and still be there.

Club favourite sons Ricky Stuart and Bradley Clyde not being resigned for 1999 season. This was to allow juniors coming through to get into squad. This was a big decision that divided the dressing room.

Roster clean out 1997 to 1999

1997


1999 roster (18 spots cleaned out)


2001


Now granted he had players for a few years from 99-01 but point is clearly that his tenure was very much a Ciraldo style clean out and club transitioning phase from the old guard to the next gen. Hence his record is appropriate to compare to a Ciraldo for the same time frame (game rules etc aside as its the pure stats).

Is Mal in conversation for the best coach ever? No.
Is Mal a dud coach? No. Because the stats do not lie and his club record is passable at above 50% and his rep record is high achieving (above 83%).

 

[Gobsmacked]

I'll use pure stats, data and numbers for this because at the end of the day thats all people will be able to reference once the eye testers are long gone.

Mal Meninga - Coaching Career - RLP

A summary of the career stats for Mal Meninga's career achievements stand like a colossus in the code. The shy teenager who developed into one of the finest Australian captains in international sport, first represented Queensland U'18s while playing for Wide Bay in 1977. The following year...

www.rugbyleagueproject.org

View attachment 109084

Club or representative, actual coaching or purely managing (with assistances employed for tactics/strategies) these are the numbers, the stats, the data and the correct information.

View attachment 109085
Narratives, opinions, context can be what it'll be but its the numbers that'll last and still be there.

Club favourite sons Ricky Stuart and Bradley Clyde not being resigned for 1999 season. This was to allow juniors coming through to get into squad. This was a big decision that divided the dressing room.

Roster clean out 1997 to 1999

1997
View attachment 109087

1999 roster (18 spots cleaned out)
View attachment 109088

2001
View attachment 109090

Now granted he had players for a few years from 99-01 but point is clearly that his tenure was very much a Ciraldo style clean out and club transitioning phase from the old guard to the next gen. Hence his record is appropriate to compare to a Ciraldo for the same time frame (game rules etc aside as its the pure stats).

Is Mal in conversation for the best coach ever? No.
Is Mal a dud coach? No. Because the stats do not lie and his club record is passable at above 50% and his rep record is high achieving (above 83%).

Stats don't tell the story though, plenty of coaches are let go with good records.
Look at Kev, made the grand final.. then sacked 12 months later!
The reality is, he had a roster that was capable of winning the comp and they needed the type of guy that could get it over the line.. the guy?
Madge, not a great record at all, sacked from the Tigers!... Coaches the Broncos to win the GF in his first year!!
Incredible.

So Mals record wasn't bad, but it wasn't getting better.. that was a very long time ago but it's a very familiar form line that leads to clubs cutting the cord.
Why?
It's pretty simple, you inherit a team, your job as coach is to make them better, whatever that takes, sometimes it means going backwards for a few years, a rebuilding..but a building.
Your job is to win a competition, all things that are charting a course in that direction will see you keep your job in most cases - in others it's politics and your ability to sway public opinion.
Holbrook was doing a good job at the Titans, trending upward's but fell at the feet of the public perception that he's not going to will you a comp as Hasler had proven he could.

Mal has the politics to keep his job, already has many convinced before a ball is kicked..
But history tells me it's a Middling mediocrity that slowly wanes with time.. only this time it starts from the ground floor.
His politics will give him 3 to 5 years.

 

[SirPies&Beers]

Stats don't tell the story though, plenty of coaches are let go with good records.
Look at Kev, made the grand final.. then sacked 12 months later!
The reality is, he had a roster that was capable of winning the comp and they needed the type of guy that could get it over the line.. the guy?
Madge, not a great record at all, sacked from the Tigers!... Coaches the Broncos to win the GF in his first year!!
Incredible.

So Mals record wasn't bad, but it wasn't getting better.. that was a very long time ago but it's a very familiar form line that leads to clubs cutting the cord.
Why?
It's pretty simple, you inherit a team, your job as coach is to make them better, whatever that takes, sometimes it means going backwards for a few years, a rebuilding..but a building.
Your job is to win a competition, all things that are charting a course in that direction will see you keep your job in most cases - in others it's politics and your ability to sway public opinion.
Holbrook was doing a good job at the Titans, trending upward's but fell at the feet of the public perception that he's not going to will you a comp as Hasler had proven he could.

Mal has the politics to keep his job, already has many convinced before a ball is kicked..
But history tells me it's a Middling mediocrity that slowly wanes with time.. only this time it starts from the ground floor.
His politics will give him 3 to 5 years.

raiders squad looked battered by 1996 season and many players were limping by then before mal took over from tim sheens.
was their squad better than broncos knights manly roosters sharks storm or even say norths/dragons between 1997-1999. to be a contender in that time period? probably not. dont think that roster was capable winning a comp.

exactly madge record not that great at tigers but is he a dud coach?

you say mal's record wasnt getting better. not true. he improved from 99 to 00 then dipped in 01. nothing to say he wouldnt have improved in 02 as he was up one season, down one season but outside 01 always more wins than losses.

not all coaches are hired to win comps. some are hired to clean out rosters and rebuild squads.
people bring up arthur who had a similar up and down start and was hired to clean out eels and rebuild them. after the first couple years he finally got them going.

you say history tells it slowly wanes with time. incorrect. we improved in 98 from 97. dipped in 99 from 98. improved 00 from 99 and dipped again 01 from 00. the numbers dont support your history.

 

[Wizardman]

I have faith in Mal. He is absolutely smart enough to delegate roles for the running of the side. He is a big personality who will be listened it. Already, their recruitment looks promising as they have bought mainly hard-working good team type players.

I'd ignore the Raiders stint. I think he has learnt things along the way.

 

[Gobsmacked]

The

raiders squad looked battered by 1996 season and many players were limping by then before mal took over from tim sheens.
was their squad better than broncos knights manly roosters sharks storm or even say norths/dragons between 1997-1999. to be a contender in that time period? probably not. dont think that roster was capable winning a comp.

exactly madge record not that great at tigers but is he a dud coach?

you say mal's record wasnt getting better. not true. he improved from 99 to 00 then dipped in 01. nothing to say he wouldnt have improved in 02 as he was up one season, down one season but outside 01 always more wins than losses.

not all coaches are hired to win comps. some are hired to clean out rosters and rebuild squads.
people bring up arthur who had a similar up and down start and was hired to clean out eels and rebuild them. after the first couple years he finally got them going.

you say history tells it slowly wanes with time. incorrect. we improved in 98 from 97. dipped in 99 from 98. improved 00 from 99 and dipped again 01 from 00. the numbers dont support your history.

Raiders were far worse in year 5 than in Year 1.
I hope Perth get a good year one but I'm afraid there's lots of players who will avoid his stand over tactics and never sign because of it.
Ponga never wanted to represent the Kangaroos but Mal picked him anyway to try and force him to play, played out badly in the media for Ponga and eventually Mal let him off the hook.
Ponga spent much of his life in WA and would have been a wonderful star signing for them..but Mal has eroded that trust. He'll never sign.
QLD did well, so did the roos with Mal in charge and that dynamic where you hold the thing players desire, that power dynamic is very different to this and I'm very sceptical Mal has the ability to be humble enough to accept that it's the players that have what he wants.. give them the respect they deserve.
So far all the good players, dispite the big offers have rejected him.

 

[Bukowski]

He'll need experienced staff around him and will need to let them run the tactical side. Gardiner is a great start.

 

[Perth Red]

Simple answer. Who knows? I'll tell you end of season 1. Until then its all just hypothesis and guess work.

Mal for a couple of years and then Willie Peters would do for me!

 

[Pippen94]

Mal will be face of team. He will yell at players from time to time as motivation and front media and complain about refs. Real coaches will be on staff out of spotlight.

 

[Ashburn]

Oh good. A thread for this now.