Dragons Roster Moving Forward

[TomRedVRiver]

Hey guys, I posted this to another Dragons page but thought I may as well post it here as well to get all your thoughts.

I know i'm thinking a little far in advance here but I can't help but think about the make-up of the roster in the coming years with all this talk about Hunt. 2018 could potentially be a big year for the club if they recruit well, including a new coach (Hasler or Cleary).
A lot of players in our squad are coming off contract at the end of 2017, here is the list -

Euan Aitken, Jack de Belin, Levi Dodd, Josh Dugan, Kalifa Faifai Loa, Yaw Kiti Glymin, Siliva Havili, Jacob Hind, Jacob Host, Drew Hutchison, Tim Lafai, Chris Lewis, Kurt Mann, Jake Marketo, Mose Masoe, Will Matthews, Tyrone McCarthy, Josh McCrone, Taane Milne, Jason Nightingale, Shaun Nona, Russell Packer, Izaac Thompson, Gareth Widdop

At this stage out of those players, the only ones i'd re-sign are Aitken, Dugan, Host, Mann, Milne, Havili (for back up hooker) Packer and I.Thompson. A massive clean-out is needed, this will leave us with a significant amount of cap space to target upgrades.
The club is already targeting Hunt, that will sort out the halves problem with Field joining him in 2018.
I'd also be targeting the forwards, particularly big props. Dylan Napa and Ben Matulino are both off contract so i'd be going hard after one of, if not both of them. Aaron Woods would be a huge asset to the team but I HIGHLY doubt he'll leave the Tigers. There's also Mitchell Barnett who has that sort of build to transition between the back row and front row accordingly.
I feel like the backs are sorted so there's no need to worry about that part of the team with youngers Garrick, Herbert and Dufty coming through joining guys like Dugan, Macdonald, Milne and Aitken. If the club plays their cards right we could be looking at a potential 2018 team of..
1. Dufty
2. Macdonald
3. Dugan
4. Aitken
5. Milne/Garrick
6. Field
7. Hunt
8. Vaughan
9. Mcinnes
10. Napa
11. Thompson
12. Leilua
13. Frizell

14. Matulino
15. Packer
16. Host
17. Sims

With the right coach, this is a top 4 team. The crazy thing is that a team like this is not out of reach for the club. I know you'll all say things like "It's all well and good to dream about a team like this, but the recruitment team are rubbish", "It'll never happen", "nobody wants to play for the Dragons".
You're probably right, but i'll be f**king damned if i'm not allowed to have high expectations of a club like ours. A team like this is possible, it CAN be done.

 

[Dragon Revival]

I would like to see Hutchison and Lewis prove you wrong. I am not too fussed on Hunt and think that we would be his last choice. I would prefer that we try Mann or Dufty at half with Field and Payne as back ups.

 

[Jubileeboy]

We still need a back up squad that can mostly cover most positions. For every Woods, Napa and Matulino, we need those cheaper, minimum wage back ups that allow us to sign the odd Hunt or two. Injury or reps will impact most squads.
Players on the cusp of playing full time NRL will always command big dollars and leave for the full time opportunity. For this reason, we can't have 25-30 NRL level in a squad and it has to be a mix. The secret is getting the mix right !
I see the next 2 years development of juniors as critical to our success. Cheaper juniors signed to long term contracts now, that improve, will hold us in good stead and give us a great window of opportunity for what lies ahead.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I think this is a bit premature TBH.
Yes, many of these players who are off contract had a poor 2016, and yes there are several who should not be considered on any deal further than this year, however, I will reserve judgment on this topic until say round 13 when a clearer picture is presented regarding form and injury.

 

[BennyV]

No idea why we'd bother looking at Napa or Matulino, let alone the pair of them. Not too much wrong with our prop rotation at the moment...

 

[2010]

With the right coach and I don't mean Mary, 2018 could be the start of several years in the top four and hopefully a premiership or two
Lot of the super stars won't be around in 2018, whereas could quite a few superstars in our team

 

[Old Timer]

Apologies in advance as I had posted this in the wrong thread
Not all our juniors are going to make it and the side must be a mixture of youth an experience.
Some will make it straight away (not so many though)
Some will make it for a year and fade
Some will take several years
So keep a few stalwarts Packer, Frizz, Dugan, Thompson
Pray that McInnes, Vaughan, Kerr, Host, Dodd, Dufty, Leilua, Mc Donald, Aitken and Milne all make it.
Buy a good half and only proven rep quality players at the top of their game.
Put De Belin, Widdop, LAM all on notice.
Pension off Nighty and move on the injury plagued like Glymin, Masoe
Get rid of the shit Lafai, Fai Fai Loa, Matthews, Marketo etc
Play Russian roulette with all the other juniors.
Then be ruthless in who you keep and quickly move players on.

 

[TomRedVRiver]

Whilst I agree my line of thinking is looking pretty far into the future, I don't think it's premature at all. Why do you think the club is offering Hunt a contract for 2018 already?
If a quality player is coming onto the market for the following year, they're generally signed to a club pretty quickly. Look at Ponga, the Trbojevic brothers, Frizell etc. If you want really good players in your team you have to look pretty far ahead otherwise you will lose your chance.
OT is right, we need to be ruthless in who you keep and move those players on quickly so you can allow for more cap space to target the quality players. Sometimes you'll sack a player and they'll go and do great things at another club (Josh Morris for example). Whilst this sucks, unfortunately it's Rugby League and you'll have those little lapses in judgement sometimes.
And BennyV, I agree our current prop rotation is good but it's not up there with the top packs in the comp. Let's face it, Masoe probably won't play much Rugby League for the First Grade side this year and if he does he will be trying to find his feet again for most of it. Ah Mau has dropped considerably in form, JDB wants to be a halfback and doesn't run the ball hard enough, although I agree that he is a solid meat and potatoes style player.
The club needs players like Dylan Napa who hit hard, run hard and put in the yards. We need impact players like Matulino off the bench. We could be a complete side in 2018, there's no reason why these types of players are out of reach. Whilst we do need depth, look at a team like Penrith. They have big impact forwards like Viliame Kikau in reserve grade who can't even make the team.
I fully understand that you need to retain second-tier players for depth, don't forget we have a few good young forwards coming through in Sele, Blake Lawrie and Josh Kerr.

Football clubs are always planning for the future, sometimes 4 or 5 years in advance. Whilst it's impossible to predict what's going to happen in Rugby League (players being released, injuries etc), it's still important to have some sort of vision or plan, not just making shit up as you go along.

 

[Belta]

Good post TomRedVRiver, that side on paper imo would be a premiership contender, I kinda of commented in the other post about agreeing with OT I that the dragons are at a point where the axe needs to be wielded, under performing players need to go and if that was to happen then a side like you mentioned is imo possible

 

[BennyV]

Whilst I agree my line of thinking is looking pretty far into the future, I don't think it's premature at all. Why do you think the club is offering Hunt a contract for 2018 already?
If a quality player is coming onto the market for the following year, they're generally signed to a club pretty quickly. Look at Ponga, the Trbojevic brothers, Frizell etc. If you want really good players in your team you have to look pretty far ahead otherwise you will lose your chance.
OT is right, we need to be ruthless in who you keep and move those players on quickly so you can allow for more cap space to target the quality players. Sometimes you'll sack a player and they'll go and do great things at another club (Josh Morris for example). Whilst this sucks, unfortunately it's Rugby League and you'll have those little lapses in judgement sometimes.
And BennyV, I agree our current prop rotation is good but it's not up there with the top packs in the comp. Let's face it, Masoe probably won't play much Rugby League for the First Grade side this year and if he does he will be trying to find his feet again for most of it. Ah Mau has dropped considerably in form, JDB wants to be a halfback and doesn't run the ball hard enough, although I agree that he is a solid meat and potatoes style player.
The club needs players like Dylan Napa who hit hard, run hard and put in the yards. We need impact players like Matulino off the bench. We could be a complete side in 2018, there's no reason why these types of players are out of reach. Whilst we do need depth, look at a team like Penrith. They have big impact forwards like Viliame Kikau in reserve grade who can't even make the team.
I fully understand that you need to retain second-tier players for depth, don't forget we have a few good young forwards coming through in Sele, Blake Lawrie and Josh Kerr.

Football clubs are always planning for the future, sometimes 4 or 5 years in advance. Whilst it's impossible to predict what's going to happen in Rugby League (players being released, injuries etc), it's still important to have some sort of vision or plan, not just making shit up as you go along.

Yeah, but buying up Napa and Matulino is insane money, Napa especially would be one of the more in-demand props in the comp. You'd genuinely be better off seeing if Ah Mau and Masoe can get into decent form this year, giving Kerr and Sele a taste (although IMO Sele is more suited to lock) and looking at a some other first-grade ready props that wont command big dollars.

Packer, Vaughn and Sims will lead the pack, we dont need to blow the cap on 2 more representative props. Would rather enaure we get the halfback we need.

 

[The Doc]

We need to give our current boys a fair go.
Mose, Vaughan, and Simms (he only had half a year) may just bring that added beast we need up front. Similiar to how the raiders and Dogs have put together big mobile units up front.
Agree with the thought process of getting rid of dead wood.
JDB, love the bloke but unless he stops trying to be a halfback and starts playing like a forward, he has to go.
JDB will never be an impact damaging forward, but he can be a 80min Tolman/josh jackson style player.
We need to give Kerr and Sele and even Lawrie a decent run, they may be duds, but they also may be guns.
We wont know unless we give them a decent run.
If Kerr and/or Sele and/or Lawrie stand and deliver, then add them to Packer, Vaughan, Simms, Mose, Frizzell, Thompson, Leilua and hopefully AhMau and we have a pretty solid and mean pack up front.
We need to bite the bullet and send off Marketo and Mathews.
JDB and AhMau need to be put on notice in 2017.
In the backs, we all know its Nightys last year, the guy is a champion, but during the year we need to blood his replacement.
We have so much youth with the potential to be great players we need to give them a decent go.
I love Dugan, but realistically his money could possibly cover a fullback, two centres and a winger!!!
We could pay Dufty, Milne, AND Aitkens with Dugans money.
But to know if thats a gamble worth taking we need to give them boys a solid run.
A half is really all we need to look for externally, but even then, we may find that Mann or Nona or Widdop or Field could be our halves combo answer.
Basically my point is 2017 NEEDS TO BE a year we experiment and give the young guys a go to know what needs to be done progressing forward.

 

[possm]

I believe Aitken will end up in the backrow so our young forwards including Josh Kerr, will serve us well over the next few years. De Belin, Thompson and LAM really need to have a good 2017 season to hold on to their spots in first grade.

A backline of;
Dufty
MacDonald
Dugan
Milne
Nightingale
Mann
Widdop

would serve us well in 2017. If we land Hunt in 2018, I think we will be a real top 4 prospect.

 

[Belta]

Wouldn't it be nice to say in September this year that several of the young dragons held their own in FG, grew in confidence, took there games to a new level, and the dragons as a team showed some exciting attacking football...I see the potential but just can't see the coach "experimenting" instead he will play it safe..but if only a few players like Dufty at fullback and Mann at half perform well, host and Leilua, aitken and Milne continue to improve, MacDonald plays well then we would likely to be at least moving forward going into 2018, and if we should be clearer on whether we need to "hunt" for a halfback

 

[Dragsters]

I believe Aitken will end up in the backrow so our young forwards including Josh Kerr, will serve us well over the next few years. De Belin, Thompson and LAM really need to have a good 2017 season to hold on to their spots in first grade.

A backline of;
Dufty
MacDonald
Dugan
Milne
Nightingale
Mann
Widdop

would serve us well in 2017. If we land Hunt in 2018, I think we will be a real top 4 prospect.

Agreed possm.

Although I'm not convinced Aitken can make the transition to back row well enough to unseat the incumbents, at least not in the short term, perhaps in the long term.

Your backline is spot on and the halves choices with widdop moving to 7 leaves both Mann and Nona as options in their more preferred 6 and giving them the best chance of a successful transition to this pivotal role (pun intended) in the top grade.

The inclusion of Dufty at the back and Luciano off the bench will improve our attacking options immensely.

With the stocks we have at hand, this gives us the best chance to score points and develop combinations, with cover avalible if needed.

Should happen from round 1 imo. No point picking mccrone at 7 widdop at 6 and duges at 1 when we saw last season that this combo just does not work.

 

[Old Timer]

Dragsters
If we are going to play an attractive brand of football I believe we should start with Leilua.
If we get into a defensive mentality early it is incredibly difficult to change that momentum to up tempo ad we really have not won many games coming from behind.
Typically we are already 10 points down before we play any attacking footy and I believe that puts too much pressure on Leilua's young shoulders and if he makes a mistake (throw an intercept pass) all of a sudden we are 16 down and his confidence shattered.
Far better to let him do his stuff right from the get go and if he does make an early mistake then it is quite recoverable.

 

[Dragsters]

I hear u OT.

Makes sense and probably particularly early in the season.

I just think Luc coming on after 20 and combining with Dufty to run rings around tiring defences would be deadly.

Perhaps this strategy may be even more potent later in the season once both rookies have gained confidence in their game in the top grade.

Definitely something to get excited about...

 

[Dragonslayer]

I hear u OT.

Makes sense and probably particularly early in the season.

I just think Luc coming on after 20 and combining with Dufty to run rings around tiring defences would be deadly.

Perhaps this strategy may be even more potent later in the season once both rookies have gained confidence in their game in the top grade.

Definitely something to get excited about...

Agree Dragsters and OT.
We need an attacking mentality right from round 1 and I think this would shock a few teams. With the article posted about Dufty bulking up (kilos wise) it points to me that he is seriously being considered as our starting fullback. That of course would move Dugan to centre. If we are going to attack mode then Milne would have to be the other centre with McDonald and dare I say Nighty as our wingers. I think this would provide a nice balance of having an attacking player backed by a defensive player ie:
Milne is an attacking weapon but has deficiencies in defense, matched with say Nighty who still knows how to score a try but is a very sound defender.
McDonald was signed as an attacking weapon great under the high ball, sound in defense, matched with Dugan who we know is a strong defender but also, as we saw in the 4 Nations, can score tries as well.
The halve combination is the biggest query. I like the idea of Widdop to 7 and have either Mann or Nona as the 6. We are all unsure about Mann's kicking game, but he's quick and has good speed and agility. Nona has a very good kicking game, great passing game and when switched on can win a game on his own.
If our forwards can lay the foundation, which I'm sure they can, I think we will surprise many teams this year and although making the 8 would be a stretch, it's not in the realms of impossibility, just like the Titans last year.

 

[KiamaSaint]

While I don't disagree, why did Mary not more Widdop to 7 earlier? Benji's best position has always been at 6.

 

[Dragonslayer]

While I don't disagree, why did Mary not more Widdop to 7 earlier? Benji's best position has always been at 6.

You are indeed correct, but we are talking about McGregor here, who has proven to know very little about his players (JDB to half and playing a one-legged Lafai come to mind).

If I remember, the video on YouTube re: Widdop shows him playing either 1 or 7, so maybe McGregor doesn't have internet!
Curious that Bennett had him at 7 for a couple of games in the 4 Nations.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

An over zealous dependency on local juniors comes with a caveat, and will only take a club so far.

For those of us with long memories, can we recall the 2005 premiership winning Jersey Flegg side coached by Steve Price....yes, HIM!!!

That was a 'gun' side overflowing with promising, talented juniors, but just how many went on to develop as regular first grade players?

Other than the Morris boys, Dan Hunt (I think?), and Beau Ryan, there weren't too many of them.

By all means sift out, isolate, and elevate the ones 'most likely', however, this by itself won't be the necessary panacea to the Dragons' current malaise.

A new coach is desperately required.