1. Out Now:

    The next edition of our exclusive weekly online e-magazine is here. The Front Row is your ideal guide to NRL Round 13 and Super League Round 8, with news, features, results, reports, teamlists, match stats and previews to accompany your weekend of footy viewing ahead.

    This week's feature story is a history piece from Andrew Ferguson, with an insight into the life of the man who refereed the first NSWRFL first grade match in 1908 - Ted Hooper.

    There's all the regular bits - the crossword and word jumbles, last week's wrap of results, reports, the ladder, stats leaders, match review and player of the year; plus your match program, with teamlists, player stats, head-to-head stats, match info and a full preview of every game of the NRL. There's also a detailed Super League program section.

    EDITION 11 - OUT NOW!

    Guest, click here to read online or download your free PDF copy

Dragons To Break Away From Illawarra.

Discussion in 'St George Illawarra Dragons' started by J.moz, Jun 12, 2020.

  1. muzby

    muzby Village Idiot Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    40,553
    Likes Received:
    17,195
    See you’re trying to sub segment again & look for the exception to prove the rule.

    The pre includes 2 (well 3 if you take ‘97) full Kogarah seasons.

    The 27% rise post JV includes the split between the two towns.

    I’ve posted my source. Go read for yourself if you believe the figures are incorrect.

    I’m sure any club would love to have a 27% growth in crowds year on year.

    This is just one of the many reasons why the JV is a good thing & we need a clean out at the top.
     
  2. muzby

    muzby Village Idiot Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    40,553
    Likes Received:
    17,195
    Wha?

    They were backed up. Now you’re just trying to be argumentative.
     
  3. muzby

    muzby Village Idiot Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    40,553
    Likes Received:
    17,195
    Read the proceeding posts & come back to me when you’re up to date with the thread.

    BTW - where are my brand value figures?
     
  4. avocado

    avocado Juniors

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,236
    Likes Received:
    1,909
    I’m also a convert. Mad Steelers supporter but welcomed the JV.
    If Illawarra was dropped from the name it wouldn’t bother me one bit. I’ve long since moved from Thirroul so I don’t know enough fellow converts to know if I’m in the minority.
    What I’d actually like to see is the club called St George, but any games played at WIN we wear the Steelers jersey (a real Steelers jersey, not the red abortion we’ve been using in recent years)
     
  5. Bloodbath

    Bloodbath Juniors

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    102
    It’s not happening get over it
     
  6. Old Timer

    Old Timer Coach

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    11,634
    Likes Received:
    15,207
    Not at all.

    The raw numbers do need to be analysed to understand what they mean in real terms.

    I am not saying the whole numbers are incorrect but like any reasonable marketing person I am just trying to understand the make up of the base numbers and what the increase equates to and how much is a direct result of the JV partner
     
  7. muzby

    muzby Village Idiot Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    40,553
    Likes Received:
    17,195
    Feel free to go and have a look for yourself..

    But 1996 was the highest average home crowd for St George during the 1990s - 11,167.

    1997 dropped to 7,222 (but we’ll ignore that year due to super league)
    1998 it was 10,394 (down 8% from grand final year)
    1999 12,712 (up 27% from prior year and 15% from the previous grand final year)

    Are we honestly sitting here debating whether or not expanding your catchment area would increase your audience?
     
  8. SaintPauli

    SaintPauli Juniors

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,014
    Likes Received:
    1,537
    Yep you have the right attitude avocado. St George simply easier for marketing , maintaining original proud history and commentry too. Happy for steelers heritage geursey for heritage round or even games at gong, acknowledging historical links.
     
    Dennis Papaioannou likes this.
  9. muzby

    muzby Village Idiot Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    40,553
    Likes Received:
    17,195
    So building on that, if we took 40% of the funding away from the JV, and let’s say 25% of members - how would we survive?
     
  10. grouch

    grouch First Grade

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    8,311
    Likes Received:
    6,306
    I noticed last week that the Illawarra Hawks are being rescued from liquidation (again) only this time they are dropping Illawarra from the moniker and just going with "Hawks". This is supposedly to broaden their appeal, because every elite level sporting club in Wollongong has been a bust. They might have a good idea there, we should borrow it.
     
  11. muzby

    muzby Village Idiot Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    40,553
    Likes Received:
    17,195
    Do you often see basketball in Australia as a leader in sports innovation?
     
    smi962 likes this.
  12. Willow

    Willow Administrator

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    81,476
    Likes Received:
    4,688
    Rugby League.
     
    hazzbeen likes this.
  13. grouch

    grouch First Grade

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    8,311
    Likes Received:
    6,306
    That must have been the board's rationale when they sold the farm to a cheapskate in Bermuda so his deadshit son would have something to play with, instead of selling it to the smart, successful, passionate owner of the Sydney Kings
     
    Heavy D and Richard Gay Was God like this.
  14. Old Timer

    Old Timer Coach

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    11,634
    Likes Received:
    15,207
    No that is not what we are debating.

    What we are debating is the numbers provided and what they actually mean in cold hard facts i.e. bums on seats and how many of them are people who followed the Steelers.

    As pointed out just taking the raw data and extrapolating that as an increase solely due to Illawarra influence is not necessarily correct as a lot of factors come into play.

    In the end I suppose the burning questions are these

    1. Could St George have played brinkmanship and gone it alone and ultimately survived and maybe courted another investor?
    2. Could the Steelers have gone it alone and challenged other Sydney clubs so as to get a franchise?
    3. Could the Steelers have courted another JV partner other than St George but obviously that partner would have had to have had a strong balance sheet or also endure debt to the NRL?
    4. If St George had survived and the Steelers folded what then became of the players and supporters from that region?
    5. If the JV was absolutely a necessity if St George had of stuck to their guns and said no Illawarra in the name what would have transpired?
    Looking at some of the numbers provided by the source you used and looking at the way I used those numbers in the previous post the other burning question is that whilst some Steelers people did in fact embrace / support / suffer the JV what actually happened to the other supporters as it is apparent under any use of the numbers that not many actually bothered to turn out to support the new entity.

    Maybe some Steelers supporters went back to following local footy or perhaps they don't like St George and decided to wear a different footy cap on the weekends.
     
  15. muzby

    muzby Village Idiot Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    40,553
    Likes Received:
    17,195
    The grass is always greener..

    That being said, are you advocating to remove the Illawarra name completely or are you looking for better Illawarra ownership?

    It’s not clear..
     
  16. muzby

    muzby Village Idiot Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    40,553
    Likes Received:
    17,195
    Why are you making it about the Steelers again?

    The debate is would st George be stronger alone.

    The fact remains that the home crowd numbers went up when St George started the joint venture.

    As for your “burning questions” these really are just hypothetical questions from history which can’t be answered correctly by anyone.
     
  17. Richard Gay Was God

    Richard Gay Was God First Grade

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,285
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    It doesn't help when the 'St George' side of things completely f**ks us over on an annual basis. Still the same old cronies that represent our 50% of the JV Board such as Peter Black and Ralph Piggott. Dousty now back there also after coming back as Deputy Chair of Saints Leagues. The McClelland's kept their foot in the water by getting Dougie's daughter in law on to the Leagues Club board so am sure when we want a Women on the board to represent diversity that she will be first cab off the rank.

    Craig Young on the Leagues Club board and head of St George District Rugby League club. He will also be lined up to go on to the JV Board again I'm sure. Warren Lockwood still there on the Saints Leagues Board and probably due for another stint on the JV board.

    The nepotism is ghastly and the way we sold out our casting vote and the Chairman seat for someone to simply pay off the debt was criminal.
     
    YoHadrian, Willow, Heavy D and 2 others like this.
  18. Old Timer

    Old Timer Coach

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    11,634
    Likes Received:
    15,207
    muzby
    The question for me and some others is on the evidence of actual numbers of support from non St George people in the JV should the name Illawarra be part of it and should we be wearing alternates strips on home games.
    Would you follow the team if it was just St George?
     
  19. muzby

    muzby Village Idiot Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    40,553
    Likes Received:
    17,195
    I would cheer on St George in the Canterbury Cup, as given the mismanagement & financial strife seen over the past quarter of a century I can’t see them surviving on their own in first grade..

    Particularly in the current climate where there are too many Sydney teams..

    And it’s a shame that you view others who support the Dragons as “non St George people”..
     
  20. Old Timer

    Old Timer Coach

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    11,634
    Likes Received:
    15,207
    You keep beetling on about the CC as the outcome for St George which is IMO sensationalising on your part as there is no evidence other than your continued slight against them to say that would be the case.

    So in effect if you followed St George that means that the name Illawarra isn’t actually that important as you possibly think that St George in CC is better than no Steelers or no Illawarra?

    As we are talking about the Illawarra’s additional influence on the pre JV attendance numbers I am more than entitled to refer to them as non St George supporters in an effort to differentiate where the numbers come from and you are clearly misinterpreting the intent of that comment.

    If I claimed them to have always been St George supporters you would have quickly parried that and said only because of the JV and in fact that at heart they were Steelers originally.
     

Share This Page