Eels Attack Analysis

[TheRam]

I don't believe we do enough training on attack. I get the feeling that the head coach's mentality has always been if you put and focus all your effort in defense then your natural talents and instincts will sort out the attack on their own.

He and the players have hinted to this type of mentality over the years in interviews. The head coach didn't even train our players with deferent scenarios i.e. Mahoney going down till recently. Therefore due to Arthurs less focus on attack, I believe that this is why he has kept someone like Murphy on for 8 years.

Sure he brought in Johns last year, and both Mahoney and Moses games have improved but that hasn't addressed the teams lack of creativity as a whole and all those freakin settlers in a game that has evolved way past the "settler." I thought the first half of the game against the Titans may have been a turning point, but no it was an aberration.

Besides speed, which if we had out wide last night(super speed, not good speed that all teams have) we would have won last night. There were times in that game that even with our pedestrian attack, if we had a winger or centre that has initial lightning speed they would have gotten around Canberra's compressed defense and blown them away, like Melbourne do to us when we play like Canberra did last night and compress in the middle.

But that still doesn't address our lack luster and predictable passing game. I have been bunging on about this for years now, I'm glad some of you have finally taken notice. The ones that still don't think it is an issue, well life must be very blissful indeed.

 

[Gary Gutful]

It's not all the coaches fault, never has been or never will be but at the end of the day the buck stops with him. He's had 8 years FFS, he has the side he wants with his handpicked staff. Surely the endless excuses have to end some time??? How nothing was changed in the off season after yet another late season fade out is simply mind boggling and on the people in charge. I'll be shocked if nothing is done next season.

Until a better idea is presented I suspect we will see more of the same.

Do you have one?

 

[Gary Gutful]

But that still doesn't address our lack luster and predictable passing game. I have been bunging on about this for years now, I'm glad some of you have finally taken notice. The ones that still don't think it is an issue, well life must be very blissful indeed.

No-one is suggesting it isn't an issue and you certainly haven't been the only person to point it out in the past.

The original post was asking for examples of how we are being coached differently and suggests that maybe our ability to execute might be part of the problem. I reckon it is a definite factor and a point well made.

To date the only response people have come up with is "settlers" which is pretty f**ken lame.

 

[Noise]

No-one is suggesting it isn't an issue and you certainly haven't been the only person to point it out in the past.

The original post was asking for examples of how we are being coached differently and suggests that maybe our ability to execute might be part of the problem. I reckon it is a definite factor and a point well made.

To date the only response people have come up with is "settlers" which is pretty f**ken lame.

Setup plays allow the defence to get set. Too many of them means we struggle to create line breaks because the defence isn’t disrupted. We need to have more points on the field to attack from other than the right post. Until we do and stop trying to work to the right post twice a set we will continue to be pedestrian in attack.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Setup plays allow the defence to get set. Too many of them means we struggle to create line breaks because the defence isn’t disrupted. We need to have more points on the field to attack from other than the right post. Until we do and stop trying to work to the right post twice a set we will continue to be pedestrian in attack.

Setups also get our attack set. When we don't do them we lose structure and start playing "Parra Ball" which is incredibly inconsistent and results in more errors and turnovers. Its not as simple as just saying take less settlers.

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Last night Canberra were getting 3-4 players into the tackle. We needed some short balls from our middles to get 1v1 or 1v2 and we could've worked off the back of that. When our middles ball-play they're generally playing out the back to a half.

Look at last week Browny was hitting other forwards with some really nice short balls. He is the key to our attack. I think we need to simplify Junior's game a bit. Early in the game every time he gets the ball Reg and Junior should be on either shoulder, that'll spread the defence out a bit and we can get a quick play the ball off that

 

[emjaycee]

So our players are lazy and aren't talented enough??? If true which i think is BS isn't that on the coach as well???

I didn't say they were lazy and not talented enough - I asked Delboy whether it was a possibility, hence the use of the word 'maybe'.

 

[TheRam]

Thats how I feel about imbeciles that use the coach as the scapegoat.

The reality is that there isn't one single factor or one single person to blame any time we lose.

Thats probably hard for you to accept, but maybe just take a seat and soak it in for a bit. You'll be OK.

How come great coaches like Bennett, can ruthlessly sack all their assistant coaches when they fall short of winning a GF and be considered to be wise, demanding, excellence and professional because of it, but we keep dishing up the same old crap, year after year and people like you and our coach are Mr Magoo?

What makes you even sound stupider is that you think that we simply want to make our coach or his assistants scapegoats. Like we haven't thought this through in all the years that we have been playing this style of footy. Oh golly jeez, there could be other factors when we lose? Wow, never could have thought of that. Jeez thanks for the heads up Clouseau.

It's not just when we lose, it's the way we play in general. Other then Moses's kicking game that has become very consistent and Mahoney's running game, and the inclusion of Papalii, the team has not changed or improved in the way we execute our lackluster game plan. That is why we need speed more then any other top 4 teams. At least if we had that we could, when we play a team that is giving it to us in the middle, shift wide and beat them on the outside. Then they will need to readjust and not compress as much and we can then drive our forward advantage home again.

But anyway, no one is to blame. Our coaching staff have squeezed the lemon for all it is worth and the juice just isn't not enough to season the whole chicken by your reckoning. Whereas I and some others here think that maybe, just maybe there is still plenty of juice left in that lemon and maybe all we need is a geezer with a better lemon squeezer.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Our issue with attack last night is pretty simple, JA / Drown aren’t up to leaving the side around yet if the opposition matches us.

Moses is more important to our side / attack then we realise

Additionally I reckon Cartwright should start/get more time on the edge to provide another “attacking point”. Not questioning Papas form (it’s been brilliant) but his attack is more run, doesn’t really have a pass / offload in him recently (few times last time in was in “space” but could get the ball out). And his metres are probably better used in the middle where he can provide a quick play the ball more often. Thus creating more room for our edges.

 

[Noise]

Setups also get our attack set. When we don't do them we lose structure and start playing "Parra Ball" which is incredibly inconsistent and results in more errors and turnovers. Its not as simple as just saying take less settlers.

But we need to do something different if we want to challenge the top teams at the end of the year. Our current system of work to the right post for 2-3 tackles, shift left, work back to the middle and kick and hope is too easy for decent teams to defend against.

 

[emjaycee]

The reality is that there isn't one single factor or one single person to blame any time we lose.

 

[hineyrulz]

I didn't say they were lazy and not talented enough - I asked Delboy whether it was a possibility, hence the use of the word 'maybe'.

So just thought you’d throw it out there huh??

Not sure Delboys answer but I think it’s possibly and maybe bullshit.

 

[TheParraboy]

Side question

Do we have a full-time wrestling coach?

Storm have always had one (or more) since Bellamy was re-born down in Melbourne. Roosters hired a full-time one in 2010. Pretty sure Sharks have one. They are the premiership winners last 5 years

Im assuming Canberra have one, based on Ryan James in an interview saying he had never done as much wrestling in pre-season training as he had when he came to Canberra late last year

Unless Junior can get a quality offload away we seem to get handled fairly well against the top sides, killing our momentum to get a set play in attack later in the set, and the defensive line re-sets easier

Bellamy wanted to introduce the wrestle to the Broncos when he was assistant, Bennett wanted none of that. Interesting read this. New found respect for Bennett.

https://www.nospam47.com/au/league/...aig-bellamy-report/1wsebc5sje4jh1are7tam9inj2

 

[Delboy]

I know you don't like Murphy but maybe the players aren't as talented as you think or maybe they are just lazy.

Think that’s over the top re Murphy, I am constantly looking for the improvement in tactics and structure, and not seeing it. I acknowledge he’s a good person, but in my circles all the good coaches I know just repeatedly say, even I can see the predictability in the attack, good NRL coaches recognise it and usually take advantage.

Keep whoever on if you believe it, but at least make a change to see if that assists. What’s the phrase, doing the same thing consistently and expect a different result = madness

 

[hineyrulz]

How come great coaches like Bennett, can ruthlessly sack all their assistant coaches when they fall short of winning a GF and be considered to be wise, demanding, excellence and professional because of it, but we keep dishing up the same old crap, year after year and people like you and our coach are Mr Magoo?

What makes you even sound stupider is that you think that we simply want to make our coach or his assistants scapegoats. Like we haven't thought this through in all the years that we have been playing this style of footy. Oh golly jeez, there could be other factors when we lose? Wow, never could have thought of that. Jeez thanks for the heads up Clouseau.

It's not just when we lose, it's the way we play in general. Other then Moses's kicking game that has become very consistent and Mahoney's running game, and the inclusion of Papalii, the team has not changed or improved in the way we execute our lackluster game plan. That is why we need speed more then any other top 4 teams. At least if we had that we could, when we play a team that is giving it to us in the middle, shift wide and beat them on the outside. Then they will need to readjust and not compress as much and we can then drive our forward advantage home again.

But anyway, no one is to blame. Our coaching staff have squeezed the lemon for all it is worth and the juice just isn't not enough to season the whole chicken by your reckoning. Whereas I and some others here think that maybe, just maybe there is still plenty of juice left in that lemon and maybe all we need is a geezer with a better lemon squeezer.

Bennett sacked Walters and Lazo in 2005, club legends who won comps and bled for the club. Next year they won the comp, we year after year keep the status quo and wonder why nothing changes. It’s embarrassing.

 

[emjaycee]

But we need to do something different if we want to challenge the top teams at the end of the year. Our current system of work to the right post for 2-3 tackles, shift left, work back to the middle and kick and hope is too easy for decent teams to defend against.

We definitely need to look for something different, but another serious question for you to consider...

When we played Penrith 3 weeks ago and matched them 2 tries each, they scored their 2 tries from (1) a play that started at the right hand post, went right 2 passes and then a big missed tackle by Papali'i 10 metres out from the line and (2) a play that started near the left posts after a settler from Penrith and then shifted left 2 passes before a late offload found a support player who went past some lazy defence from Lane not following and closing the gap. Penrith had nothing in attack that we couldn't defend against, except for missing tackles.

Like my original post asked, is our attacking structure and plan really any different from anyone else or is it just execution?

 

[Noise]

We definitely need to look for something different, but another serious question for you to consider...

When we played Penrith 3 weeks ago and matched them 2 tries each, they scored their 2 tries from (1) a play that started at the right hand post, went right 2 passes and then a big missed tackle by Papali'i 10 metres out from the line and (2) a play that started near the left posts after a settler from Penrith and then shifted left 2 passes before a late offload found a support player who went past some lazy defence from Lane not following and closing the gap. Penrith had nothing in attack that we couldn't defend against, except for missing tackles.

Like my original post asked, is our attacking structure and plan really any different from anyone else or is it just execution?

So it is different. They went left for one try and right for the other try, ie threats on both sides of the field. They also started both tries from the near post , we go left from the far post. I am not against a setup play and attacking left from the far post, it’s just that we do it at nauseum and it is so predictable.

 

[emjaycee]

Think that’s over the top re Murphy, I am constantly looking for the improvement in tactics and structure, and not seeing it. I acknowledge he’s a good person, but in my circles all the good coaches I know just repeatedly say, even I can see the predictability in the attack, good NRL coaches recognise it and usually take advantage.

Keep whoever on if you believe it, but at least make a change to see if that assists. What’s the phrase, doing the same thing consistently and expect a different result = madness

Oh I get that we need to try new things and I have no issue with changing the assistant coaches (or adding to them) but I don't see where out tactics are any different to anyone else.

Here's where I am coming from. If we swapped Waqa Blake with Justin Olam from the Storm, would we be a better side and score more tries with the same tactics? Storm shift it left, Olam gets the ball, beats the first defender and pops a pass to JAC who then scores - this is a consistent play for the Storm. Eels shift it left, Blake gets the ball, jinks, jumps, steps back inside and gets tackled while Sivo catches a cold.

 

[Delboy]

We definitely need to look for something different, but another serious question for you to consider...

When we played Penrith 3 weeks ago and matched them 2 tries each, they scored their 2 tries from (1) a play that started at the right hand post, went right 2 passes and then a big missed tackle by Papali'i 10 metres out from the line and (2) a play that started near the left posts after a settler from Penrith and then shifted left 2 passes before a late offload found a support player who went past some lazy defence from Lane not following and closing the gap. Penrith had nothing in attack that we couldn't defend against, except for missing tackles.

Like my original post asked, is our attacking structure and plan really any different from anyone else or is it just execution?

If it’s execution, who’s responsible for coaching the execution. I’m not being personal , we have an issue with being too loyal for our own good.

keep Murph to assist at training and running messages onfield on game days, but get someone in full time with some credentials and personality to assist in leading the club from an attack viewpoint.

Our effort on effort message and crash plays dont win Div 1 in age group competitions without some ability to change up in attack. The roster is good enough and should be coached to take advantage of their ability not just bash and barge. We used to criticise Penrith for that sort of game plan , we need to progress.

 

[Gary Gutful]

But anyway, no one is to blame. Our coaching staff have squeezed the lemon for all it is worth and the juice just isn't not enough to season the whole chicken by your reckoning. Whereas I and some others here think that maybe, just maybe there is still plenty of juice left in that lemon and maybe all we need is a geezer with a better lemon squeezer.

Dumb.

We need a geezer who can also bring us more lemons FFS. Actually, preferably some oranges and nectarines as well.

A different coach isn't going to get this current squad performing much better than BA has. To improve further we need to improve our squad as well.