Eels centre Michael Jennings provisionally suspended for anti-doping policy breach

[guyver78]

It's still funny how many people just have no idea what really goes on with these players or they're just straight up naive.

Players use performance enhancing drugs all the time. Always have, always will. Players will try whatever they can to get away with getting any sort of an advantage be that on or off the field.

Yes your favorite player probably has knowingly or unknowingly (most likely knowingly) used a performance enhancing drug at some stage of his career.

The ones caught are unfortunately just very unlucky. Most of these substances have a very short half-life meaning they're out of your system very quickly making it almost impossible to detect. When these players are caught it's generally because of somebody that gives ASADA a tip-off or they're just straight up very unlucky.

So i find it really funny when i see comments like "oh Jennings was the last player I'd expect to cheat". SARMS, peptides are only very mild performance enhancers. They're mainly used to heal injuries. Nobody is going to gain 10kgs of muscle using just SARMs or peptides. The real performance enhancers are the Anabolic Steroids and they're generally the easiest to detect.

I feel for Jennings because I don't believe he did anything that warrants a 4 year suspension. It's almost like giving somebody 4 years in prison for stealing a sandwich. Even as a Souths supporter I would have loved to have seen him play on Saturday night. At least he's 32 and he's at the end of his career so hopefully he's doing ok because there will be a lot of armchair experts that will be out to judge him having no idea what they're talking about.

 

[guyver78]

Except that it is, and that's why it's banned.

Do you know what players can use to heal injuries? Anything prescribed by a doctor. There is a reason these substances he has tested positive for aren't used in the medical field.

When you're talking about SARMS they're generally "research chemicals" sold for "research purposes". To what extent do they work? Opinions differ. Just because something isn't prescribed for human use yet doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Personally I was prescribed peptides which essentially work similar to Growth hormone by a doctor here for my torn rotator cuff and with adequate rest I found they did help.

In terms of what the doctors can prescribe to athletes...well not much at all because just about anything that works is banned. Anything that's completely useless you can use.

There are legal peptide clinics in Australia that legally prescribe peptides, just not to athletes.

 

[Vee]

wow, just wow

Yeah, my answer was to not dignify it with a response.

 

[Frailty]

When you're talking about SARMS they're generally "research chemicals" sold for "research purposes". To what extent do they work? Opinions differ. Just because something isn't prescribed for human use yet doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Personally I was prescribed peptides which essentially work similar to Growth hormone by a doctor here for my torn rotator cuff and with adequate rest I found they did help.

In terms of what the doctors can prescribe to athletes...well not much at all because just about anything that works is banned. Anything that's completely useless you can use.

There are legal peptide clinics in Australia that legally prescribe peptides, just not to athletes.

Funnily enough, athletes should be well educated as they are able to seek a TUE (Therapeutic Use Exemption) which basically acknowledges it is a banned substance but has been prescribed for a specific medical issue. Remember the scandal revolving Webcke's failed test - he escaped any punishment because it was found his doctor made an error in registering the probenecid prescription.

As for your mention of peptides - the term "peptide" is actually just a short chain of amino acids. One peptide is not like there other. Some have genuine therapeutic use. Many do not.

 

[GreenMachine121]

It's still funny how many people just have no idea what really goes on with these players or they're just straight up naive.

Players use performance enhancing drugs all the time. Always have, always will. Players will try whatever they can to get away with getting any sort of an advantage be that on or off the field.

Yes your favorite player probably has knowingly or unknowingly (most likely knowingly) used a performance enhancing drug at some stage of his career.

The ones caught are unfortunately just very unlucky. Most of these substances have a very short half-life meaning they're out of your system very quickly making it almost impossible to detect. When these players are caught it's generally because of somebody that gives ASADA a tip-off or they're just straight up very unlucky.

So i find it really funny when i see comments like "oh Jennings was the last player I'd expect to cheat". SARMS, peptides are only very mild performance enhancers. They're mainly used to heal injuries. Nobody is going to gain 10kgs of muscle using just SARMs or peptides. The real performance enhancers are the Anabolic Steroids and they're generally the easiest to detect.

I feel for Jennings because I don't believe he did anything that warrants a 4 year suspension. It's almost like giving somebody 4 years in prison for stealing a sandwich. Even as a Souths supporter I would have loved to have seen him play on Saturday night. At least he's 32 and he's at the end of his career so hopefully he's doing ok because there will be a lot of armchair experts that will be out to judge him having no idea what they're talking about.

working in an industry which the use of sarms and anabolic steroids are fairly commonplace I would disagree with you ...
happy to explain what exactly they do and which ones are for what if you are interested

 

[guyver78]

working in an industry which the use of sarms and anabolic steroids are fairly commonplace I would disagree with you ...
happy to explain what exactly they do and which ones are for what if you are interested

Do tell mate, we don't have to agree/disagree and we can have a respectful debate. I've used all 3 throughout my time and would love to chime in...

 

[GreenMachine121]

Do tell mate, we don't have to agree/disagree and we can have a respectful debate. I've used all 3 throughout my time and would love to chime in...

No worries at all , which would you like me to explain ?
SARMS
TEST
not sure what the third was but let me know mate

I would say though that the specific compound he tested positive too is on higher side in term of effectiveness for building lean mass ... is that what your dr prescribed you ?

most of my experience both personal and professionally would be with various Trt dosages of test cyp, reandron etc
Although I have had clients who are on TRT and double dose to much higher levels ...
for example standard TRT dosage is roughly 1mg / 250ml fortnightly which would bring you into a healthy range , akin to what a healthy male in their mid twenties would produce , however this is often abused to a weekly dosage and well , let’s put it this way ... recovery time is greatly reduced

Sarms are still fairly lightly researched and quite a new compound but are designed to be more selective in what exactly they bind too ( muscle & bone density ) they are supposed to be similar to Test but more sensitive in terms what results they produce ( had a client who would take high doses of Ostarine and well he was able to put on size quite easily )

At the end of the day the therapeutic use of Sarms has a pretty wide application , as you mentioned you had been prescribed this but at a low dosage ...

apologies I could bore everyone to death with more info but that’s just my take on it

 

[GreenMachine121]

Forgot to say .... Jennings could have been taking a low dose of LG -4033 to help speed up the healing process of whatever his injury was when he was , someone mentioned he was out for 7 weeks or so ....
Generally speaking the half life of this compound is 24/36 hours but It can be detected 3/4 weeks later

No idea if the actual injury timeline but unless it’s being used at a higher frequency ie performance enchantments it shouldn’t have been in his system ... ya dig ?

 

[TheDMC]

Imagine if they could take any drug in any quantity they liked. NRL games would be awesome.

 

[guyver78]

No worries at all , which would you like me to explain ?
SARMS
TEST
not sure what the third was but let me know mate

I would say though that the specific compound he tested positive too is on higher side in term of effectiveness for building lean mass ... is that what your dr prescribed you ?

most of my experience both personal and professionally would be with various Trt dosages of test cyp, reandron etc
Although I have had clients who are on TRT and double dose to much higher levels ...
for example standard TRT dosage is roughly 1mg / 250ml fortnightly which would bring you into a healthy range , akin to what a healthy male in their mid twenties would produce , however this is often abused to a weekly dosage and well , let’s put it this way ... recovery time is greatly reduced

Sarms are still fairly lightly researched and quite a new compound but are designed to be more selective in what exactly they bind too ( muscle & bone density ) they are supposed to be similar to Test but more sensitive in terms what results they produce ( had a client who would take high doses of Ostarine and well he was able to put on size quite easily )

At the end of the day the therapeutic use of Sarms has a pretty wide application , as you mentioned you had been prescribed this but at a low dosage ...

apologies I could bore everyone to death with more info but that’s just my take on it

Good post mate, at least you know what you're talking about. I would sort of explain it this way. Now when an athlete gets caught like this, they're generally labelled as a "cheat" so to speak because it's also assumed they're trying to improve their athletic performance and therefore gain an unfair advantage. So I think it's important to distinguish the difference between these substances and determine what really improves performance as such.

Feel free to disagree but from my experience the only thing that I found to really significantly improve athletic performance to where I could run faster, hit harder, accelerate quicker, have superior endurance was "anabolic steroids".

Even a TRT dose of Test E/C, say 150-200mg will give you a superior athletic advantage to somebody that's natural and has fluctuating hormone levels. No matter what you do, whether you get sick, have a huge night out on alcohol, cut your calories or whatever else you do to tank your natural Testosterone levels; a TRT dose will give you a sub optimal level of Testosterone rain, hail or shine. So whether you're injecting testosterone, nandrolone, boldenone, oxymetholone etc etc makeds no difference you will get an athletic advantage.

The rest however, I found to be very mild and most almost useless if we're talking purely about gaining an athletic advantage.

Ok so as for SARMS. They have their place but once you've actually used anabolic steroids, particularly at higher doses I would say they're almost completely useless. I took Rad-140 and Ostarine and never really got anything out of them. MK-677 is also useless once you've had real Pharmaceutical HGH. So as far as SARMS go, for somebody that's never taken anything they might perhaps work. Comparing to real anabolic steroids however, I would say it's almost like comparing a 5% beer to 40% Vodka. 300-500mg of Testosterone absolutely destroys any SARM as a performance enhancer. That being said, you could perhaps try SARMS at higher doses although I don't know why you'd do that when 300mg of Testosterone would still be superior and probably safer.

HGH, even pharma grade I would say again is a very mild performance enhancer. Great for healing injuries and staying super lean if you can afford to be on it for long enough.

Peptides. I've been prescribed, MGF, IGF Des, IGF1-LR3, TB-500, BPC 157. I actually found them great for injury repairs if you can afford to buy regulated prescription quality peptides and not the cheap fake rubbish of the internet. Again if we're talking about "enhancing athletic performance" I would say peptides do close to nothing.

I think lastly what I also found and what a lot of people don't understand is that a lot of these substances are excellent "anti-inflammatory" compounds. Now that's not necessarily an athletic advantage but of huge help to these athletes as their bodies are beaten like hell throughout the year. We know that less inflammation equals less pain, especially niggling pain. All steroids, peptides and SARMS are very powerful anti-inflammatory drugs.

Your thoughts?

 

[GreenMachine121]

Good post mate, at least you know what you're talking about. I would sort of explain it this way. Now when an athlete gets caught like this, they're generally labelled as a "cheat" so to speak because it's also assumed they're trying to improve their athletic performance and therefore gain an unfair advantage. So I think it's important to distinguish the difference between these substances and determine what really improves performance as such.

Feel free to disagree but from my experience the only thing that I found to really significantly improve athletic performance to where I could run faster, hit harder, accelerate quicker, have superior endurance was "anabolic steroids".

Even a TRT dose of Test E/C, say 150-200mg will give you a superior athletic advantage to somebody that's natural and has fluctuating hormone levels. No matter what you do, whether you get sick, have a huge night out on alcohol, cut your calories or whatever else you do to tank your natural Testosterone levels; a TRT dose will give you a sub optimal level of Testosterone rain, hail or shine. So whether you're injecting testosterone, nandrolone, boldenone, oxymetholone etc etc makeds no difference you will get an athletic advantage.

The rest however, I found to be very mild and most almost useless if we're talking purely about gaining an athletic advantage.

Ok so as for SARMS. They have their place but once you've actually used anabolic steroids, particularly at higher doses I would say they're almost completely useless. I took Rad-140 and Ostarine and never really got anything out of them. MK-677 is also useless once you've had real Pharmaceutical HGH. So as far as SARMS go, for somebody that's never taken anything they might perhaps work. Comparing to real anabolic steroids however, I would say it's almost like comparing a 5% beer to 40% Vodka. 300-500mg of Testosterone absolutely destroys any SARM as a performance enhancer. That being said, you could perhaps try SARMS at higher doses although I don't know why you'd do that when 300mg of Testosterone would still be superior and probably safer.

HGH, even pharma grade I would say again is a very mild performance enhancer. Great for healing injuries and staying super lean if you can afford to be on it for long enough.

Peptides. I've been prescribed, MGF, IGF Des, IGF1-LR3, TB-500, BPC 157. I actually found them great for injury repairs if you can afford to buy regulated prescription quality peptides and not the cheap fake rubbish of the internet. Again if we're talking about "enhancing athletic performance" I would say peptides do close to nothing.

I think lastly what I also found and what a lot of people don't understand is that a lot of these substances are excellent "anti-inflammatory" compounds. Now that's not necessarily an athletic advantage but of huge help to these athletes as their bodies are beaten like hell throughout the year. We know that less inflammation equals less pain, especially niggling pain. All steroids, peptides and SARMS are very powerful anti-inflammatory drugs.

Your thoughts?

All valid points and no disagreements from me .
As you would know most that are seeking performance enhancement for sporting purposes would generally have a Test base + whatever is the most relevant compound ..

The client I mentioned previously said he was using ostarine + test + hgh so I guess the results lie somewhere in the mix ‍

personally have used test cyp 250mg fortnightly and weekly with varying results but not stacked with anything else .. at that level almost zero sides apart occasionally getting insomnia haha ( that’s awful )

‘Recovery time is amazingly good , you deadset can’t wait to train haha

Other clients have used reandron ( 10 week slow release single intra injection ) and have found it very up and down performance wise .

Anyway back on topic , as I stated above the half life of lg-4033 is 36 hrs at best and I guess someone’s f**ked up or he’s just taking it himself after initially using it to speed up his recovery ....

What did you think of Xerri’s mix of positives ? Clearly the media don’t have a clue as I recall one of the things listed was a by product of taking another thing

Funny thing about ped’s is people seem to think you take this stuff and wake up Arnold .... lot of hard work and genetics play a big role as well


In closing I concede that my client and others may have not been very truthful with their stack .... it’s weird though I mean I training them you think there’d be full disclosure haha ... pretty sure a bunch of this goes on at the pro level , have a mate who played grade and went from around 85kg to 97kg in an off season ........ that’s impossible without anabolics

 

[GreenMachine121]

Few points I missed

HGH, even pharma grade I would say again is a very mild performance enhancer. Great for healing injuries and staying super lean if you can afford to be on it for long enough.

‘1.This 10000% way too expensive


Peptides. I've been prescribed, MGF, IGF Des, IGF1-LR3, TB-500, BPC 157. I actually found them great for injury repairs if you can afford to buy regulated prescription quality peptides and not the cheap fake rubbish of the internet. Again if we're talking about "enhancing athletic performance" I would say peptides do close to nothing.

2.Interesting take , haven’t had any experience personally but yes there is a huge amount of dodgy stuff around

I think lastly what I also found and what a lot of people don't understand is that a lot of these substances are excellent "anti-inflammatory" compounds. Now that's not necessarily an athletic advantage but of huge help to these athletes as their bodies are beaten like hell throughout the year. We know that less inflammation equals less pain, especially niggling pain. All steroids, peptides and SARMS are very powerful anti-inflammatory drugs.

3. Agree totally , the recovery benefits are immense . Even the worst doms are gone within a few hours and joint soreness just isn’t a thing.


Cheers

 

[GreenMachine121]

As Bill Burr says , let’s have a steroid olympics ... let them take what they want

 

[Incorrect]

As Bill Burr says , let’s have a steroid olympics ... let them take what they want

Would be pretty cool watching the 100 metres get run in 5.5 seconds. Or seeing javelins impaling spectators after the athletes throw them clear out of the stadium!

 

[GreenMachine121]

Would be pretty cool watching the 100 metres get run in 5.5 seconds. Or seeing javelins impaling spectators after the athletes throw them clear out of the stadium!

Haha totally

 

[moffla]

Would be pretty cool watching the 100 metres get run in 5.5 seconds. Or seeing javelins impaling spectators after the athletes throw them clear out of the stadium!

You'd have athletes pole vaulting out of the stadium.

 

[guyver78]

All valid points and no disagreements from me .
As you would know most that are seeking performance enhancement for sporting purposes would generally have a Test base + whatever is the most relevant compound ..

The client I mentioned previously said he was using ostarine + test + hgh so I guess the results lie somewhere in the mix ‍

personally have used test cyp 250mg fortnightly and weekly with varying results but not stacked with anything else .. at that level almost zero sides apart occasionally getting insomnia haha ( that’s awful )

‘Recovery time is amazingly good , you deadset can’t wait to train haha

Other clients have used reandron ( 10 week slow release single intra injection ) and have found it very up and down performance wise .

Anyway back on topic , as I stated above the half life of lg-4033 is 36 hrs at best and I guess someone’s f**ked up or he’s just taking it himself after initially using it to speed up his recovery ....

What did you think of Xerri’s mix of positives ? Clearly the media don’t have a clue as I recall one of the things listed was a by product of taking another thing

Funny thing about ped’s is people seem to think you take this stuff and wake up Arnold .... lot of hard work and genetics play a big role as well


In closing I concede that my client and others may have not been very truthful with their stack .... it’s weird though I mean I training them you think there’d be full disclosure haha ... pretty sure a bunch of this goes on at the pro level , have a mate who played grade and went from around 85kg to 97kg in an off season ........ that’s impossible without anabolics

Well that's a very common trait and PEDs are generally funny that way. Because of all the stigma attached to PEDs, people will admit to bashing their Mrs or shooting up crystal meth before they admit to using Testosterone. What you'll find is the average gym rat who uses PEDs generally uses more than he's willing to admit to. It's also like those who try and push SARMs (usually for financial gain) claiming they're somehow safer than steroids and had they have known XYZ beforehand they would never have used steroids but SARMs instead. Again they never tell you about all the testosterone, trenbolone or nandrolone they used to get there but only about the SARMs they're now using to keep what they gained using much harsher compounds.

What Xerri tested positive to was Pro-hormones and the media also claimed it was Testosterone but it's hard to say for certain because Pro-hormones are anabolic steroid precursors and they will elevate your Testosterone levels (usually not by huge amounts tho). Exogenous Testosterone is also bio-identical so our bodies do not differentiate between what we naturally produce and what we inject. This is why WADA/ASADA rely on abnormal profiles of Testosterone or its precursors in urine as a way of catching people. They than use GC/MS to test for specific drugs, so for instance Jarrod Mullen was caught with Masteron in his system if memory serves me correctly.

Exogenous Testosterone is bio-identical and it really fluctuates between different age groups, ethnic backgrounds and nationalities. So they came out with this T/E ratio cut off test sometime in the 1980's. This basically tests your testosterone to epitestosterone to check for any "abnormal" elevations. But here's the thing, the cut-off T/E ratio for athletes is 6. When they however conducted studies on the average Caucasian populations the average T/E ratio was 2 and it was even lower in Asian populations.

Now because they have to account for people throughout the whole world, that's a very generous cut-off. What this essentially means is as a male you can keep your Testosterone levels quite high, improve your athletic performance significantly and still be within the normal range.

So long as you keep your Testosterone levels within the normal reference range there is no way they will catch you. This is why the testers rely so much on informants and what you'll find is as soon as somebody is suspected they raid the house and grab whatever electronic equipment they can to try and get as much evidence as possible.

So in the case of Xerri it's actually really difficult to say whether he took straight injectable Testosterone or not because we have nothing but a bunch of crap written in the papers. You would actually have to have a look at his results and even than unless it very extremely elevated it doesn't prove anything. Ultimately it really doesn't matter anyway because they did have him for all the other things.

It's not very hard to beat the system. You can just use straight Testosterone your whole career and never be caught. People just have to accept it for what it is. Athletes are using PEDs and that will never change. If people have that much of a problem with it morally don't watch the sport, simple...

 

[guyver78]

Would be pretty cool watching the 100 metres get run in 5.5 seconds. Or seeing javelins impaling spectators after the athletes throw them clear out of the stadium!

Well that's the thing, we as consumers want to see bigger than life performances from athletes.

Our expectations just grow and grow, I mean how good was it to see Greg Inglis or Billy Slater in their prime pulling off those 100 meter runs to score those brilliant individual tries...

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. They're normal humans that have limitations like all of us.
So sometimes when you do see your favorite athletes breaking those records or pulling off those spectacular runs it's as a result of whatever was in that needle the night before...

 

[Xcalibre]

I actually worry about how strong and powerful RL players are now, with most being (presumably) clean, let alone allowing PED open slather. There'd probably be more and worse injuries, if they were any faster and could hit harder.

 

[The_Frog]

Imagine if they could take any drug in any quantity they liked. NRL games would be awesome.

There was a time when that was the case, am I right?