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England!

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I read on RugbyHeaven and BBC sport that England beat the AB's 15-13. I haven't seen the game yet, how did it go? Was England full value for the win?
 

AliN

Live Update Team
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3,678
Well Steve, the English certainly deserved the victory.

The big word 'if ' came into play for the AB's , none more so than if Carlos Spencer's kicking game was on song, unfortunately it wasn't, and he missed a lot of goals.

I don't know the official stats, but the ref dominated the game on both sides. From memory there were 33 or so penalties. Fair enough if the players are breaking the rules, but honestly some of the penalties were invisible as to what happened.

At one stage 2 English players were in the sin bin at the same time..

But to their credit they held fast, and their defence was top notch. They shut down the game players..Nonu, Tana and Carlos, who although had some good field play, was right off the button as far as his kicking. It was very windy, but the English first five, was on his game, and that made the difference.

Unfortunately a game dominated by a ref, is not good viewing no matter what the result is.

The All Blacks certainly have some work to do before the World Cup.. The English are on the right track.
 

JoeD

First Grade
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7,056
CS I wouldn't bother with watching the game, it is probably the worst game of any sport I have seen in a long time. The AB's played poorlyfor most of the game and really should have won with the amount of possession they had. Don't know if I agree with you AliN about England being on the right track though. They looked just as bad as us if not worse. Even though the ref put 2 of them in the bin the stop start nature of the game played right into England's hands. Rodney Soaialo came off mid way through the second half and he wasn't even sweating. The english also slowed the play down by claiming an injury after nearly every tackle. All in all it was a good advertisement for rugby league.
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
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38,388
Agree with Joe, the abysmal referreeing spoilt the game as a spectacle. As far as performances went it came down to goalkicking in the end. Wilkinson landed 4 from 4 and a drop goal, Spencer landed 2 from 4 and a conversion. I felt the two packs and midfields basically cancelled each other out, while the ABs had the beter outside backs (reflected in the fact that they scored the only try of the game). I doubt that Mitchell is sweating much about the result, remember that the ABs have had no warm-up games and so had not had time to sort out their combinations whereas England have played their six nations campaign plus a warm-up against NZ Maori. England didn't really offer much in attack and never really threatened the NZ line, however their defence was excellent and they recycled possesion well at times.
 

AliN

Live Update Team
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3,678
I actually think it was a case of England only doing what they needed to.
As for any decent attack,the ref sorted that out.
 
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2,807
Well, I can't watch it, because the Canadian Sporstsnet that shows one game per week chose to show SA vs. Scotland instead. I hope they show Aus vs. England next week.
 

AliN

Live Update Team
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3,678
Steve, Byron Kelleher has joined the AB's camp today for the weekend's game against Wales.
Justin Marshall pulled up with an injury in the game against England and can't play.
It'll be very intersting to see how the halfbacks go.
 
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2,807
AliN said:
Steve, Byron Kelleher has joined the AB's camp today for the weekend's game against Wales.
Justin Marshall pulled up with an injury in the game against England and can't play.
It'll be very interesting to see how the halfbacks go.

The AB's should win easily, I think, after getting a game under their belts last week. I thought ex-league player Iestyn Harris (Leeds Rhinos) was going to make this trip but I saw his name wasn't on the list against Aus. I wonder if he's hurt.
 
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Here's an article where the ARU is concerned about the entertainment value of union, based on the England-NZ test, compared to that of league, with the upcoming RUWC in mind.

Whistle-happy ref gives O'Neill nightmares
By Neil Harvey
Monday, June 16, 2003


England's ugly 15-13 win over the All Blacks will likely provoke nightmares for Australian Rugby Union chief John O'Neill.

The clash of the rugby titans in Wellington reinforced the worst fears of the ARU which is hoping to capitalise on this year's showcase World Cup to expand their football code in Australia.

As a spectacle the game stunk, never getting out of first gear under the weight of 33 penalties uncovered by referee Stuart Dickinson.

If that's what happens when all the one-sided pool games are out of the way and rugby superpowers collide in the play-offs, the World Cup is in for a damp squib of a finale.

Inevitable comparisons with rugby league's non-stop State of Origin thriller three days earlier would only rub salt in the wound for O'Neill.


And the fact that the referee was an Australian wouldn't have helped, after years of Australian complaints about the whistle-happy ways of northern hemisphere refs.

Apart from brief moments of scintillating running from Wendell Sailor and Chris Latham there's also been precious little to enthuse about in Australia's wins over Ireland and Wales.

And the ARU will dread a repeat of Saturday's Wellington shocker when stodgy England travels to AFL heartland Melbourne to play the Wallabies this Saturday
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
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Russel Brown's take on the match rom an NZ perspective is pretty accurate I think:

I'm philosophical. Clearly, losing to England is never good, but what we saw wasn't all bad either.

England had universally been expected to dominate the All Blacks up front, but that didn't happen. Our all-new lineout tactic - picking tall guys! - proved extremely effective. Most of the game was played in England's territory, we created several try-scoring chances and England didn't really create any. The first-game-of-the-season midfield combination was woeful and Umaga had possibly his worst game in a black jersey.

But the game at test level is about taking opportunities, which England did, to the tune of four penalty goals and a droppie from Jonny Wilkinson. Carlos Spencer, on the other hand, missed four from seven shots at goal, any one of which would have been the difference between losing and winning.

There was a degree of bad luck. Justin Marshall couldn't unload to a three-man overlap on the English line because his right hamstring went, and he couldn't prop off it to pass to his left. Rodney So'oialo did score that try so far as I could see. And if he didn't, then it was surely a penalty try - the players who prevented him scoring had not retired, and had they obeyed the laws of the game and left him alone, he would, without a shadow of a doubt, have scored a try under the posts. On the other hand, Doug Howlett's try shouldn't have been awarded, because he was at least a metre offside from the kick. That pretty much sums up the standard of refereeing.

If anything's irreversible about the All Black performance, I fear it might be leadership. When England (quite rightly) had two players sin-binned for repeated infringements, captain Martin Johnson stepped up and inspired by example. Reuben Thorne didn't seem to have that in him.

The worst thing about losing to the English is, of course, that they are even worse winners than they are losers, and that's saying something. From Steven Jones' snotty triumphalism in his Sunday Star Times guest column (sneering at the "hapless" All Black forwards) to Clive Woodward's whingeing about the independent judiciary's decision on Ali Williams (look - players who try and impede the ball at the bottom of a test match ruck do so at their own risk), there was a real lack of grace.

England were also, of course, somewhat cynical, slowing the game down whenever they could, and repeatedly feigning injury in the second half, with play being further held up when as many as six officials (of the 15 on the tour!) swarmed onto the field. They showed experience. But they remind me of the 1991 All Black side, similarly accomplished, which went to the World Cup, as arrogant as you like, and got seriously undone. Watch this space.

Original article at: http://publicaddress.net/default,hardnews.sm#post491
 
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2,807
I've only read about it so far, not seen it, but the English defeat of the Wallabies sounds pretty impressive. 3 tries to 1 should stop the criticism that England plays negative rugby. Are they now the clear favourite for the WC?
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
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I'd pretty much agree Steve, England were more impressive against Australia, they were clearly the superior side whereas against the AB's they only won by dint of having a better kicker. Having beaten both NZ and Australia I think that they deserve the favourites tag.
However I don't really think that there is anything between England and NZ at the moment, and I doubt that England would've beated the All Black side that demolished Wales, the ABs have improved markedly over the side that went down to England, which was to be expected as that was their first match.
 

AliN

Live Update Team
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3,678
Yep agree, the All Blacks were a totally different side in the match against Wales. Daniel Carter was outstanding.

It'll be interesting when they play the understrength French side just so see if they can carry on the momentum.

What on earth has happened to the Aussies, or is it just a clever ploy before the world cup.
 
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2,807
AliN said:
What on earth has happened to the Aussies, or is it just a clever ploy before the world cup.

I think the Wallabies are in a down cycle. Their last WC team continued its dominance untill the 2001 season, but they have gradually been slipping since then, IMO. I predict the AB's will beat them twice in the 3N series.
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
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CanadianSteve said:
AliN said:
What on earth has happened to the Aussies, or is it just a clever ploy before the world cup.

I think the Wallabies are in a down cycle. Their last WC team continued its dominance untill the 2001 season, but they have gradually been slipping since then, IMO. I predict the AB's will beat them twice in the 3N series.
Hope so, 'bout time we got the Bledisloe cup back!
 
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