English lower leagues

[deluded pom?]

I think over the last 5 years they may be walking a fine line between good growth and overplaying their hand. I just hope it's sustainable. In League One there are currently (from non-heartland areas):

- Gloucestershire
- Coventry
- Hemel
- Crusaders
- Scorpions
- Skolars
- Newcastle
- Oxford

That's the majority of the league! To be fair, some are quite well established now and seem to be built upon fairl strong foundations (like Newcastle for example). But I think the next few seasons will be critical for some of these team and whether or not they can survive long-term. There should certainly be no more expansion for the next 3-4 years minimum, so they can consolidate.

Some of those clubs will fall by the wayside. We might not like it but it's going to happen. Why no more expansion in the short term? A fair chunk of the costs for these teams will be travel expenses. The more teams closer to each other the better. If a club wants to enter the league and ticks all the relevant boxes then why wouldn't you let them in?

 

[IowaRL]

I would say that Crusaders bottomed out after the financial crisis in their SL days, to me they look sustainable now and would not be surprised to see them in the chamionship next season. The growth of the amateur and junior game in wales should give them enough talent to be sustainable and competitive in the second tier at least.

I am thinking that a fourth tier below league one is necessary, the most sustainable structure for the game in the UK i can see is 4 divisions of 10 teams each or 3 divisions but the third tier being split to have east and west. The key which they really need to do now anyway is have the central funding grants large enough to sustain and at least make the top 2 divisions fully pro.

Going roughly off the current leagues

Super league (10 teams)- Wigan, Wire, Leeds, Saints, Hull FC, Hull KR, Widnes, Catalans, Huddersfield, Salford

Championship (10 teams)- Wakey, Cas, Fev, Leigh, Bradford, london, dewsbury, halifax, Toulouse, sheffield

League 1 East (10 teams)- Hunslet, Keighly, Doncaster, York, Newcastle, hemel, Skolars, Coventry Oxford, Batley

League 1 West (9 teams)- Workington, Whitehaven, Barrow, Oldham, Rochdale, Swinton, Gloucester, South wales, North wales

I would have the league 1 east and west winners playoff for the right to promotion to the championship, while have 2 up and 2 down between SL and the championship.

Lack of games will be the call by chairmen up and down the land so to compensate have a new cup competition combining the top two divisions in randomly drawn groups champions league style into a knockout stage (4 groups of 5?). Should give all up 26 games + finals + challenge cup

I would love to see this. Ultimately, I think it'd be nice to have 12, 12, then 2 12 teams groups at position 3 (north and south), but for now that's a little much. Perhaps for now if they went 12, 12, and 2 groups of 8. Having teams like Oxford, heel and skolars in the same group, with less travel, will help them be more sustainable. This allows 2 new teams

 

[langpark]

Some of those clubs will fall by the wayside. We might not like it but it's going to happen. Why no more expansion in the short term? A fair chunk of the costs for these teams will be travel expenses. The more teams closer to each other the better. If a club wants to enter the league and ticks all the relevant boxes then why wouldn't you let them in?

Fair point, but I think it needs to stay at its current number in order to maintain some quality. You don't want to spread the talent too thin, which may already be the case.

Another big problem is that a few of these teams don't have strong foundations (local amateur/junior activity) and seem to rely heavily on imports. Take a look at the map below. Type in 'University of Gloucestershire', then after looking at their area, type 'Newcastle Thunder'. You will hopefully see a huge difference and get an idea about what I'm talking about.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?hl=el&authuser=0&mid=zABIgnSBr5B4.kFSu7hCmqNks

 

[bowes]

I would love to see this. Ultimately, I think it'd be nice to have 12, 12, then 2 12 teams groups at position 3 (north and south), but for now that's a little much. Perhaps for now if they went 12, 12, and 2 groups of 8. Having teams like Oxford, heel and skolars in the same group, with less travel, will help them be more sustainable. This allows 2 new teams

An east midlands team and one other (Medway?) to make a southern division would be the best if interested people can be found. Having said that I'd consider expanding the northern division beyond 8 teams in that scenario.

Newcastle and North Wales seem very stable. I may be biased but Coventry Bears are getting good results and good crowds. You always have to judge an expansion club on their 2nd and 3rd seasons rather than the 1st though

 

[roughyedspud]

Our league with 14 teams is perfect...no need to reduce it thanks

 

[roughyedspud]

Just come back from the meetting with the oldham owner...he was surprisingly open and honest...it was a very good meeting

 

[IowaRL]

Just come back from the meetting with the oldham owner...he was surprisingly open and honest...it was a very good meeting

Very interesting! Any more info than that? (Happy if you need to PM).

 

[CC_Roosters]

Very interesting! Any more info than that? (Happy if you need to PM).

Also interested if its a PM spud

 

[roughyedspud]

the club and "us" ,we've kinda,accidentally, formed a new independant supporters group,and theres going to be a brief statement issued which is basically gonna say how constructive & positive the meeting was...i'll link it when it gets released...and i'll leave it at that for now because spoke about some fairly sensitive issues that aren't ready for public consumption yet and i don't say anything that might c**k things up for us down the track..

but yeah,im surprised it went so well..

 

[CC_Roosters]

the club and "us" ,we've kinda,accidentally, formed a new independant supporters group,and theres going to be a brief statement issued which is basically gonna say how constructive & positive the meeting was...i'll link it when it gets released...and i'll leave it at that for now because spoke about some fairly sensitive issues that aren't ready for public consumption yet and i don't say anything that might c**k things up for us down the track..

but yeah,im surprised it went so well..

Flying high in league 1 i see. Any buzz about town for the team? Maybe a few more going along if the form keeps up?

And i think i remember you saying they would be mid table at best, do you still think thats the case?

 

[roughyedspud]

We've a series of hard games coming up in the next month or so lets see where we are then...but yeah at the moment you can't fault whats happening on the pitch,a point we made last night,its whats happening off it thats the concern...

As for a buzz...nah...theres 300 fans going to games and the local press couldn't give a stuff

 

[IowaRL]

We've a series of hard games coming up in the next month or so lets see where we are then...but yeah at the moment you can't fault whats happening on the pitch,a point we made last night,its whats happening off it thats the concern...

As for a buzz...nah...theres 300 fans going to games and the local press couldn't give a stuff

Hopefully this will be fixed with Progress!

At least you aren't York...

 

[roughyedspud]

Now hes a fruitcake lol

 

[bowes]

Really annoyed the talk is of adding Toulouse and Toronto to League 1 next season. The RFL have been working really hard to get fledgling semi pro clubs playing outside the heartlands (and whilst it's working, not all clubs are up to scratch on the fields or crowds wise) but now all that hard work is going to be put at risk by turning the league into a crazy circus. Neither foreign club would benefit either, Toulouse would be taking a step down in league quality and Toronto wouldn't be playing in a league worth travelling thousands of miles for. How hard is Toulouse in Championship and Toronto in the AMNRL? If anything League 1 needs regionalising not making into a global league

 

[roughyedspud]

Toronto is a stupid idea...canada should be working with the USARL not blowing money flying over here for a month at a time...

Not got a problem with toulouse though

 

[bowes]

I'd rather Toulouse straight into the Championship as think it's silly putting them in a league the same standard as the French league with a lower salary cap

 

[IowaRL]

If they want new teams in champ 1 outside England, get a Scottish team going!

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

What is it that Canada are looking to gain from this? Are they looking for greater competition? Media presence? Or entry into Super League?

They must be after something they can't get by simply increasing their local competition or joining the USARL?

 

[langpark]

Really annoyed the talk is of adding Toulouse and Toronto to League 1 next season. The RFL have been working really hard to get fledgling semi pro clubs playing outside the heartlands (and whilst it's working, not all clubs are up to scratch on the fields or crowds wise) but now all that hard work is going to be put at risk by turning the league into a crazy circus. Neither foreign club would benefit either, Toulouse would be taking a step down in league quality and Toronto wouldn't be playing in a league worth travelling thousands of miles for. How hard is Toulouse in Championship and Toronto in the AMNRL? If anything League 1 needs regionalising not making into a global league

This. I'm sure they are already spending more on travel than Super League teams! Teams are scattered right across the country, which is great, but does put more strain on team budgets.

 

[deal.with.it]

Eric Perez has been honest with his aspirations for a SL side. That's the goal, rightly or wrongly. The only way to make it happen is to start in league 1.
I suppose the same goes for Toulouse.
The RFL will need to support the newer southern clubs if they want to turn their comp into a global comp.
The talk 2 years ago was of a north and south division of league 1.