Estonia

[YANTO]

Student Rugby League officials have announced the formation of a chairman’s X111 representative side intended solely to tour developing Rugby League nations, and Estonia will be the first.The players are drawn from all four Home Nations and in addition to being decent performers their numbers include qualified coaches, referees and students well versed in languages.Tartu military college will be on the agenda on the 18th with the first GAME PLAYED ON THE 20TH.Matt Jeffery student league manager said. The student rugby league are at the forefront of international development with this ground breaking tour to Estonia.

 

[Copa]

Good stuff....

I hope the Estonian guys aren't the same as the group that selected a hungover brit holiday maker for a RU international a few months back..

 

[YANTO]

erm or had nine turn up for a four team tournament attended by Rotterdam.....Nine players that is not teams....bit of farce that weekend.
The RLEF seem to have a liking for east european sides at the moment and I am personally getting a bit pi**ed of with it.

I feel its a slap in the face for all the hard work going on in Holland ( and Serbia by the way) when they can send a full team and coach education set up to an unkown country that has already failed to produce what was promised to Rotterdam.

Add the help that Georgia have had (ok two wins against Serbia and Holland but nothing else has happened ) and I have a feeling another Russia is in the making.
For them not in the know Holland was dropped in 1989 to concentrate on Russia...


Holland along with Scotland have been in the forefront of European development.
Games v Serbia,Georgia and Germany have been organised and played with little assistance from the RLEF.
This gave Georgia and Germany their first taste of international football.
We have had over 150 players playing the game but when we ask for help in getting a structure organised for a domestic competition we get nothing.
They send referee's for the Georgia game then treat the Rotterdam Festival, which is growing every year ,as a Pub competition and we have to pay a hell of a lot of money for officials or use "None Qualified" referees.( as in the Scotland and Germany games).

Not a happy chappy at the moment.
For the record in three short years Holland have played
5 games v various Scottish national sides,
3 games v Serbian national sides,
1 game v Georgia,
1 game v Germany
Sent two Rep teams to the York Nines,
Sent a club side to Estonia,
Had Hoek van Holland play Rotterdam,(First Domestic game ever)
Had Ter Werve play Essex Eels,
Had Rotterdam play Clock face Miners,
Had a South Holland rep team play Essex Eels
Had over 50 kids playing Tag
Had twenty teams play in two nines tournaments and held two very succesful four day Rotterdam festivals.

We have had from the RLEF
NO Coach Education
No referee Education
No Official 's visiting us
A few balls
A few videos
A few refs shirts
A very small grant to help us get to Serbia
Insurance paid.

Now Estonia get all of this in one full week of activaties.

Maybe we have done to much on our own but to be honest if help and support is not forthcoming soon all this will go down the pan.

I didnt expect much help when we started this project but when a lot of resources over one week are put into a country who cant even get a team out for an international in a so called established game (union) I wonder what we are doing wrong.

Shakes head in despair.......

 

[Big Bunny]

It does make a person wonder what criteria the RLIF and RLEF apply to helping new and developing nations. Dropping Holland for Russia was never a good idea, but to their credit Russia did hold on and they do continue to play the game, even though the RLEF have seemingly given up on them now too.

We don't hear much out of Russia, even though I can still get all of their results from Russian newspapers and from the Locomotive website. They haven't exactly gone backward. Their national league still has 10 teams and it's played in more cities than it ever was before. Sure they lost the 3rd best team to union because of its owner and along with him some fly by night funding, but that was always a false impression anyway.

In rugby league there seems to be a need to chase the bright and shiny things. Always looking for something new, throwing away the old. It's our sports biggest problem, especially when it happens in every new case.

I believe the RLIF and the RLEF need to sit down and seriously think about the process rather than the prize and examine how to best provide for the games development, especially in those nations where the hard yards are being bypassed for imaginary greener pastures.

 

[Big-Hitter]

The RLEF should be pumping the most resources into nations that've already managed to get strong domestic structures set up under their own steam.

By my reckoning Lebanon and Serbia should be getting the most support as they have both managed to establish strong domestic comps with virtually no support.

 

[screeny]

Yanto, interesting post.

Just a question: you've been going three years yet still don't feel in a position for Dutch RL to have a domestic comp despite having 150 players. Why is that? The Serbs and lebanese had a comp going almost immediately didn't they, the Windies even quicker.

You say you're waiting for help from the RLEF with "structures" for the domestic comp, what do you mean exactly?

With the greatest respect, a lot of people who attend the Rotterdam 9s are on here or other forums joking about getting hammered in Holland (booze not RL!) which adds to the notion of the 'pub comp' concept, doesn't it?

I've never been to it and speaking from a neutrals point of view it comes across from the conversations on message boards as a pub comp. Don't shoot the messenger! I'm giving you my honest appraisal - same as when the USA guys argue with one another so bitterly, that hardly reflects well on the AMNRL.

 

[Big Bunny]

The RLEF should be pumping the most resources into nations that've already managed to get strong domestic structures set up under their own steam.

By my reckoning Lebanon and Serbia should be getting the most support as they have both managed to establish strong domestic comps with virtually no support.

By applying your logic I'd have to rate Russia ahead of both Lebanon and Serbia, as their domestic scene was established with little support other than which they initiated by venturing to the UK and it is continuing to grow.

If excluding the UK and France, I'd rate the European nations using your guidelines thus:


1. Russia: National league with 10 teams from 8 cities: Moscow, St.Petersburg, Yoshkar-Ola, Serpukhov, Krasnoznamensk, Kazan, Rostov, Naro-Forminsk. Several of those within the Moscow region. They also have junior development and women's rugby league, even if at a small scale.

2. Serbia: A small senior league and with junior development, Serbia could realistically overtake Russia's development in the next few years. Serbia tour and host internationals and are quite a progressive nation.

3. Lebanon: 5 senior clubs with an expansion club joining next season. Things are looking good and they aren't far from junior development. Their international program is looking strong and they are doing everything the right way.

4. Holland: The NNRLB has achieved a lot considering that it has faced a somewhat hostile Dutch RU and had to begin its life as a one man operation. Things have progressed slowly but surely and without any backward steps. Internationals on home soil, a first domestic club game and the successful hosting of 3 successive Dutch 9's has placed the Dutch a lot closer to being able to launch a domestic season.

5. Georgia: Able to field a strong national team due to the calibre of union players being fielded. Playing both home and away internationals, gaining TV coverage and pulling strong crowds and with several clubs training for a rugby league domestic season (funding would depend on its eventual launch). They could soon be pushing Lebanon for 3rd place.

6. Germany: Following the path set by Holland, Germany looks like it might have a smoother run than the Dutch in its very early days. Being able to learn from the triumphs and mistakes of others has been invaluable. I wouldn't be surprised to see Germany and Holland developing at one set pace, both pushing domestic developments with the help of the other and possibly with Austrian input as well.

7. Malta: Aussie based but like Lebanon they are serious and ready to play their first home international. Hopefully the match will see moves to establish the game in Malta sooner rather than later.

As for any other nations, well unless the RLEF starts getting multi million dollar funding injections I'd prefer to see them start their development work before putting their hand out. Latvia can't even handle developing rugby union let alone league. Italy are like irresponsible kids going for a joyride in an expensive car, they would be as big a waste of money as Samoa is/was. I believe that Greece will eventually make it to Athens, but probably not within the next 10-15 years. The project sounds like too low a priority for its organisers even with the project being genuine.

 

[BatiFan]

Ditto to all above BB.

 

[BatiFan]

Just a quick question also for anyone that knows, but is Lebanon and Georgia even considered as Europe? In soccer I think Lebanon play in the Asian confederation.

 

[YANTO]

Yanto, interesting post.

Just a question: you've been going three years yet still don't feel in a position for Dutch RL to have a domestic comp despite having 150 players. Why is that? The Serbs and lebanese had a comp going almost immediately didn't they, the Windies even quicker.

You say you're waiting for help from the RLEF with "structures" for the domestic comp, what do you mean exactly?

With the greatest respect, a lot of people who attend the Rotterdam 9s are on here or other forums joking about getting hammered in Holland (booze not RL!) which adds to the notion of the 'pub comp' concept, doesn't it?

I've never been to it and speaking from a neutrals point of view it comes across from the conversations on message boards as a pub comp. Don't shoot the messenger! I'm giving you my honest appraisal - same as when the USA guys argue with one another so bitterly, that hardly reflects well on the AMNRL.

If you have been following the progress of Holland over the last three years Screny you will know the problems we have encountered with the Union and the Goverment funding which has not helped.
Opposition I believe Lebanon and Windies didnt have due to there being no other code of rugby in these countries.
Eastern Europe (Serbia,Russia,Georgia) is a total different ball game mate and lets not go there.

You can have ten million players but without coaches and officials you can not play games and these players go back to other sports.

Development is not only about playing numbers..

Russia,Serbia,Lebanon,Georgia and even the Windies have all had coaching co-ordinators and match official co-ordinators holding clinics and seminars provided by the RLEF/IRLF Holland have had nix and now they are going for a week in Estonia.

The Rotterdam Festival is in its second year Screeny.
It was started as a tool to allow developing teams the oppertunity to play International competition.
Serbia,Scotland Development/Students,Holland and Germany have played eight "International" games in the two years at the Festival.

Now that is NOT A PUB Competition.
That is European development.

Yet we have not had one Official supplied by the RLEF.
These games have been controlled by ex players etc which is a farce.

The Nines is a social event for some teams but you had better believe that out of the entries this year the majority are serious teams.

The standard of competition was higher than 2004 and with this in view we may hold a "Social Event" along side the main event next year to keep the tournament open to everyone.

The press had a few stories about the Bulldogs and booze this season but does any one rate them as a pub team?

 

[Big Bunny]

Just a quick question also for anyone that knows, but is Lebanon and Georgia even considered as Europe? In soccer I think Lebanon play in the Asian confederation.

For the purpose of the federation due to its isolation, Lebanon is considered a part of Europe, even though they are technically in Asia. Other than politically it's pretty much the same as Israel playing as a part of Europe in other sports except. Georgia is a firm part of Europe whilst nearby Kazakhstan is Asian and the Tatarstan state of Russia is as well, at least historically and in an ethnic sense.

 

[Der Kaiser]

Germany has learnt much from Holland and would personally like to thank Tomo as he has always been there and in some cases been a listening ear.Germany would like to hold a home and away game each year against the Dutch as it offers much both nations much experience, profile in Heidelberg, Rotterdam, Hoek Holland, Munich, Bad Reicenhall etc through the local media etc, is not expensive to travel stay overnight etc.We will also look to play Scotland Students each year or every second year in a new areas where league has an interest.This would help the local club get publicity.

Germany has had some luck so to speak in having Leo Berngruber and Uwe Jansen in charge of clubs and getting near all involved at their clubs to see the advantages of RL!Me being involved with a Student team in munich means that I am invovled with people who come from all over germany and Eastern Europe!
Some of the Problems we are facing are
1) Setting up clubs-German law means you need atleast 7 people involved with the club.All minutes from any meeting, financial statements etc are gone over very carefully by the Finanzamt!So we are looking at what Munich, Heidelberg and Bad Reichenhall etc have to do to become bonefide RL Clubs!German Law is very frustrating at the best of times!If the clubs dont become Bonefide Clubs then getting any insurance is near impossible!Also we would have to pay Tax as well.

2)Getting official REcognition.We are using Euro MP Terry Wynn to help us as we are constantly hitting a brick wall with both Olympic comittee and the DSB (Deutsch Sports Bund)!The DSB and NOK are not part of a Government setup so its awkward

3)Money is tight to say the least.We got a very small amount that has virtually gone in less than a month on running a 9s comp, getting a team to Heidelberg, having a meeting in Heidelberg-over 300KMs away ,getting a team to Rotterdam (2 of whom was students aged 17 and 19),Part payment of Club shirts for StuSta-which sadly arrived a bit late!), phone bills, buying Coaching DVDs but now got given a couple free!, Equipment for players and with a set amount allocated to help us get to the next RLEF meeting in November somewhere in france-hoping paris!.The last one in london still cost me €300 for flights, 2 night in London was payed for by myself!

I know Tomos outlay is a hell of alot more than mine and no it costs a small fortune just to get 4 officials to come from England to Ref at the 9s for example!The RFL have said we must pay to get people across to ref!We not wanting SL Refs just any Qualified Refs.Its hard work as many are involved with Summer Conference etc in summer months

 

[T-Dub]

Yanto, interesting post.

Just a question: you've been going three years yet still don't feel in a position for Dutch RL to have a domestic comp despite having 150 players. Why is that? The Serbs and lebanese had a comp going almost immediately didn't they, the Windies even quicker.

You say you're waiting for help from the RLEF with "structures" for the domestic comp, what do you mean exactly?

With the greatest respect, a lot of people who attend the Rotterdam 9s are on here or other forums joking about getting hammered in Holland (booze not RL!) which adds to the notion of the 'pub comp' concept, doesn't it?

I've never been to it and speaking from a neutrals point of view it comes across from the conversations on message boards as a pub comp. Don't shoot the messenger! I'm giving you my honest appraisal - same as when the USA guys argue with one another so bitterly, that hardly reflects well on the AMNRL.

Having taken a side to both 9's events to date in Rotterdam, I can assure you that whilst there is a strong 'social' element to the weekend with people, for the most part, mucking in without pretence in a festival spirit of celebration of RL and making friends and contacts, the standard on the field is certainly not that of a pub competition.

My team is pretty much out of its depth now and will bow out of the 9s, but will be looking to attend in some capacity to lend support to whatever future events the Netherlands RL puts on.

RL can be fun, and believe me it is the way the Dutch do it.

That said, check their rep and national teams last 3 results...3 wins!