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Every Club's Real Cap Worth

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
16,105
The Storm cheated but the fact they had to go so far over the cap to keep players they basically developed themselves shows how flawed the system is, not the fact they didn't get punished enough.

I think the purpose of a salary cap should be:

1.) stop clubs spending outside of their means

2.) prevent a cashed up Manchester City/Barcelona FC type club who just buy up all the talent.

You could argue the Roosters sometimes push number 2, but the Storm or Panthers definitely do not. Not sure of any fair system you could implement that would pull those teams back to the pack and I am not sure they should be penalised for keeping good players they developed themselves.
Similar to your team in the glory years, I dont recall much poaching going on from established NSWRL clubs. It was getting guns from the Brisbane comp and developing your own along with it.

The other reason clubs should be encouraged to develop their own is more top tier talent makes poaching less needed. As @Canard mentioned the Cows develop plenty, but they get scooped up by other clubs. If everyone did more then it's easier for them to keep players like Kikau, Ponga etc. Some clubs will still have a geographical disadvantage in comparison to the Chooks, Manly etc, but there is no way around that.

The "local junior" thing is also not relevant. People often whinge that it's easy for Penrith with a large area to draw from and we do have a great crop of locals right now, but players like Edwards, Staines, Burton, Yeo, Martin, JFH were all from well outside our local catchment. To a lesser extent Kikau as he had been put on the radar at Nth Qld even though he hadn't played NRL at that point. Api as well was signed from Souths before he had played NRL iirc. We then let him go stupidly before getting him back again.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
16,105
That’s only in Sydney though, the rest of nsw and the country the nrl clubs aren’t responsible for jnrs, the state leagues and grassroots clubs are.
The NRL clubs should be encouraged to adopt regional areas and get into development. It's working for us. I assume the Storm also do similar in areas of QLD. Their strike rate at converting prospects to stars is too good not to be. The clubs are getting better at regional engagement, but they can still go deeper.

It's not a new thing though. I lived in Mudgee in the early 90's and trialled for the Mudgee Dragons when Ron Gibbs was up there. Manly were up there sniffing around for talent and were involved with the club. I'm not sure if was just off the Gibbs connection or a longer term thing as I got injured pretty badly and my playing days were over so I lost touch with what was going on.
 

Colk

Bench
Messages
3,238
The Storm cheated but the fact they had to go so far over the cap to keep players they basically developed themselves shows how flawed the system is, not the fact they didn't get punished enough.

I think the purpose of a salary cap should be:

1.) stop clubs spending outside of their means

2.) prevent a cashed up Manchester City/Barcelona FC type club who just buy up all the talent.

You could argue the Roosters sometimes push number 2, but the Storm or Panthers definitely do not. Not sure of any fair system you could implement that would pull those teams back to the pack and I am not sure they should be penalised for keeping good players they developed themselves.

Notwithstanding the ethical implications, why wouldn’t you cheat if you were Melbourne or whomever. Essentially if you developed these players why wouldn’t you. You can’t really get caught unless you have a disgruntled employee and even if you do get caught, history has shown that most clubs have benefited from it in the medium to long term.

What is the point of having a system that is not in any way transparent and has nuance of understanding of the difference between clubs
 

Colk

Bench
Messages
3,238
Other sports are in different markets. People often refer to NFL as an example of taking development away from the clubs. It would never work here, our setup is completely different. We dont have a college system to support sport development.

I don't get the argument as to why you would take it off the clubs anyway. Those that put effort into development are the most successful in the professional era. Melbourne rarely buy established talent. They identify promising kids and develop them to a point where other clubs pay overs to get them. Then they just find new ones and go again. The Roosters are great at it too, they also have a knack for complimenting their developed talent with astute recruiting. Penrith have finally gotten serious on the development front with the Acadamy and really getting serious with Country footy.

Well the AFL don’t have the clubs running juniors and it seems to work for them. Anyway there are a few reasons why clubs shouldn’t be involved:

1.) Looking at the history of economic troubles for clubs and their size at the moment. Clubs should be wholly focused on getting bigger and better financially through more sponsors, members and supporters to games etc.

2) Look at the examples of Newcastle and Gold Coast over the last ten years. Those clubs were absolutely destitute yet they were supposed to be in charge of junior development in areas that were bigger in size than all of the Sydney clubs? How many players haven’t been developed over the last ten years or so by the fact that they couldn’t fund development properly? That makes no sense to me.

3) There is no benefit in the salary cap for the development of players. There is no dispensation, development fees etc. If the NRL really want to encourage development of players come up with a system that encourages such development rather than encouraging the purchasing of players through who has the greater TPA’s and corporate relationships

4) It creates an absolute confused mess of junior development. Who is in control of country Rugby League development? How can we encourage greater Pacific Island development (which would be massively beneficial)- is this the domain of the ARLC or the clubs? What about areas that are not traditional RL areas how can we grow into those areas? For instance, Melbourne have been in the competition for more than 20 years yet how many players have come from Victoria (btw that’s not a criticism of Melbourne in any way as there is no benefit in them developing Victorian talent who are not going to be as good as talent from Qld)
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
51,284
The NRL clubs should be encouraged to adopt regional areas and get into development. It's working for us. I assume the Storm also do similar in areas of QLD. Their strike rate at converting prospects to stars is too good not to be. The clubs are getting better at regional engagement, but they can still go deeper.

It's not a new thing though. I lived in Mudgee in the early 90's and trialled for the Mudgee Dragons when Ron Gibbs was up there. Manly were up there sniffing around for talent and were involved with the club. I'm not sure if was just off the Gibbs connection or a longer term thing as I got injured pretty badly and my playing days were over so I lost touch with what was going
only in terms of promoting rugby league and signing up fans imo. Leaving grassroots to clubs is fraught with problems and inconsistencies as outlined by others.

nrl clubs should concentrate on making money, building fanbases, getting people interested in following the game and taking the best 16 year olds and turning them into competent professionals. Everything else should be the responsibility of the arlc and state bodies. The landscape at the moment is so convulated and overlapping with big areas of neglect, it’s not working.

charge every club a $2million a year license fee which goes to the state body they are in to fund grassroots and jnr participation then clubs use their funds to have academies and elite programs for the best from 16 onwards.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
16,105
only in terms of promoting rugby league and signing up fans imo. Leaving grassroots to clubs is fraught with problems and inconsistencies as outlined by others.

nrl clubs should concentrate on making money, building fanbases, getting people interested in following the game and taking the best 16 year olds and turning them into competent professionals. Everything else should be the responsibility of the arlc and state bodies. The landscape at the moment is so convulated and overlapping with big areas of neglect, it’s not working.

charge every club a $2million a year license fee which goes to the state body they are in to fund grassroots and jnr participation then clubs use their funds to have academies and elite programs for the best from 16 onwards.
The shit clubs will still pay no attention or put any time into the 16 year olds, they try and buy instant success and it rarely works. That age range is somewhere on the mark as where club involvement makes a tangible difference.

I don't have the answers on how to fix it and make clubs buy in.
 

The_Frog

First Grade
Messages
6,390
Well the AFL don’t have the clubs running juniors and it seems to work for them. Anyway there are a few reasons why clubs shouldn’t be involved:
I don't pretend to know exactly how the AFL's development works, but they do have a draft and it does favour the bottom teams.
 

Colk

Bench
Messages
3,238
I don't pretend to know exactly how the AFL's development works, but they do have a draft and it does favour the bottom teams.

Yeah I’m not a huge fan of a draft like they have but I was just saying that clubs don’t have to be in charge of junior development
 

Rod Coil

Juniors
Messages
116
Currently Zero funds are cascaded down to individual junior leagues, so absolutely nothing gets to junior league clubs. NRL/NSWRL knows it so there is no hope until somebody up top wakes up & gets courageous. Absolute disgrace!!
 

Colk

Bench
Messages
3,238
The shit clubs will still pay no attention or put any time into the 16 year olds, they try and buy instant success and it rarely works. That age range is somewhere on the mark as where club involvement makes a tangible difference.

I don't have the answers on how to fix it and make clubs buy in.

I think PR is right though. The clubs should only have players when they are at the age when they can play first grade (or just about)

Leave all junior development to a central body who can properly fund it.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
51,284
The shit clubs will still pay no attention or put any time into the 16 year olds, they try and buy instant success and it rarely works. That age range is somewhere on the mark as where club involvement makes a tangible difference.

I don't have the answers on how to fix it and make clubs buy in.
That’s where the nrl can mandate a min spend on elite development. $2mill license fee and min $1mill a year to be spent on elite jnr development with every club running U18 side in nsw or qlnd comp and nrl reserve grade sides With min 50% of side U21. If nrl has to up the club grant a bit to cover this so be it.
 

forby

Juniors
Messages
2,012
When a team can put 15 of 17 players on the field that have come through their junior development system why should they give it up to support the rest of the NRL clubs who do nothing!
The NSWRL have no idea about junior development, and the NRL even less.
Why change a system that works?
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
51,284
When a team can put 15 of 17 players on the field that have come through their junior development system why should they give it up to support the rest of the NRL clubs who do nothing!
The NSWRL have no idea about junior development, and the NRL even less.
Why change a system that works?
Which nrl club is doing nothing? Pretty sure they all have jnr systems and feeder club arrangements

also how many nrl clubs are actually using nrl club money for jnr development rather than pokie leagues club money? The system doesn’t work. Hence why we struggle to expand as there is t the depth of talent available
 

Babyface O'reilly

First Grade
Messages
9,148
Which nrl club is doing nothing? Pretty sure they all have jnr systems and feeder club arrangements

also how many nrl clubs are actually using nrl club money for jnr development rather than pokie leagues club money? The system doesn’t work. Hence why we struggle to expand as there is t the depth of talent available
South’s Juniors do all the heavy lifting for Souths, don’t they?
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
51,284
South’s Juniors do all the heavy lifting for Souths, don’t they?
This is where you have to define what you mean by Jnr development. Its not the Rabbitohs, or any NRL clubs, job to get as many 3-15 year olds playing the game as possible and for those young kids to have good facilities and competent coaches. That's the State bodies/ARLC's job.
Its the NRl clubs job to scout the best 15-16 year olds and have pathways and systems to take the best and turn them into professional RL players. Souths have that the same as every NRL club.
 
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