Expansion of the Women's Competition

[MrE_Assassin]

WIth the Women's National Championship playing at Burleigh, QLD over the period of 30 May - 2 Jun, the next question to ask is: As the women's talent pool expands, where does the NRLW expand to next?

 

[MrE_Assassin]

I’ll go first and suggest maybe that it doesn’t expand itself exactly along the same team lines of the NRL.

Maybe this is where the Bears could be established and they could use NSO/Gosford as the comp becomes bigger/longer.

Otherwise I would have to suggest either a Western Sydney team like Parra or Penrith and or Melbourne. The NRL Vic has had a women’s comp going for a while now. I think it would be great for the promotion of RL in Victoria.

 

[Perth Tiger]

I think they would stick with NRL teams. But if they didn’t as you suggest, I would love to see them look at PNG since it seems they would be long odds of getting in the Men’s NRL.

And to be honest if they are using government money and AusAID money to funds these teams too try and fuel social change in a nation were violence against women and sexual violence is prevelant why not try and make the leading national sportspeople a women’s team?

But that would be way to risky for the cautious NRL board

 

[MugaB]

Yes Western Sydney is a must
Newcastle, Melbourne and Nth Qld
Roosters service north of sydney, look at Isabelle kelly, but if Newcastle had their own team it would be far better served for players living between manly central coast and anywhere north coast

 

[MrE_Assassin]

Yeah, I agree they probably would stick to NRL sides to align them to. Just thought it would be a good way to bring in/back some of those clubs that we lost and use that nostalgia. I’d be keen to hear if a Bears fan would go and support a NRLW Bears team.

A PNG women’s club would be interesting and definitely great for the development of the women’s international game. You’re right though that the NRL are very risk averse

 

[MugaB]

Yeah, I agree they probably would stick to NRL sides to align them to. Just thought it would be a good way to bring in/back some of those clubs that we lost and use that nostalgia. I’d be keen to hear if a Bears fan would go and support a NRLW Bears team.

A PNG women’s club would be interesting and definitely great for the development of the women’s international game. You’re right though that the NRL are very risk averse

Well currently the 4 teams could be
SYDNEY Bears
St.George ILLAWRRA Steelers
Brisbane Crushers
Auckland Vulcans

Add in Wests Magpies, Newcastle Mariners, South sydney Jets and a Perth Reds, Adelaide Rams in the future

Funnily though this is idea that could push away from mascots that are male oriented
Like Roosters, and CowBoys

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Stick with NRL teams but don't saturate Sydney. Over the next five seasons I'd go:

North QLD
Brisbane
New Zealand
St George Illawarra
Roosters
Cronulla
Souths
Melbourne

 

[MugaB]

Stick with NRL teams but don't saturate Sydney. Over the next five seasons I'd go:

North QLD
Brisbane
New Zealand
St George Illawarra
Roosters
Cronulla
Souths
Melbourne

Mate don't saturate sydney?
You just did.
Cronulla, south sydney, easts(sydney)
And Stgeorge (all in South/CBD).

I'd have one west, before adding cronulla or souths, thats crazy
I know they have womens clubs for that area but NRLW has to be the 1st grade version, we cant emulate nswrl

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Mate don't saturate sydney?
You just did.
Cronulla, south sydney, easts(sydney)
And Stgeorge (all in South/CBD).

I'd have one west, before adding cronulla or souths, thats crazy
I know they have womens clubs for that area but NRLW has to be the 1st grade version, we cant emulate nswrl

Sydney is the biggest market in the game for both finances and players so naturally it will have more clubs than other cities, but four clubs in one city is much better than nine.

 

[The Great Dane]

WIth the Women's National Championship playing at Burleigh, QLD over the period of 30 May - 2 Jun, the next question to ask is: As the women's talent pool expands, where does the NRLW expand to next?

The simple answer is that it won't expand, or at least that it's expansion will very quickly stall (as it already has), because the current clubs with an NRLW license will use it as leverage to demand that they get extra grants to supposedly cover the unforeseen costs of running the NRLW team or threaten to pull out of the comp (or undermine it in some other way), which will continue to create uncertainty around the competition that will prevent expansion until the NRL caves and gives them the extra grants that they demand, which will then further delay expansion of the competition as it suddenly becomes more expensive for the NRL to run.

It's one of the many reasons why the NRL shouldn't have taken the lazy route of intrinsically connecting the NRLW to the NRL clubs instead of building a new competition with brand new women's clubs that are totally focused on growing the game in the female demographic, instead of it being an after thought of the men's competition that is a handy publicity stunt and bargaining chip for the clubs that participate.

 

[MugaB]

Sydney is the biggest market in the game for both finances and players so naturally it will have more clubs than other cities, but four clubs in one city is much better than nine.

Agreed, but not all teams within 15km of each other, again souths, easts, cronulla and kogarah are all in the same area of south east/CBD sydney
Expanding to 4-5 teams in sydney is ok
But not all there next to each other, thats currently the issue in NRL now with the Sydney clubs, too many in that area.
I suppose Dragons are at Wollongong half the time now, even so, 3 teams in that southern pocket is ludicrous, you'd have to think one team at bankwest stadium either as parra, wests or dogs, maybe penrith if theres enough talent in far central west/country areas, as well as penriths catchment for women, then go north to Newcastle/north coast,
Once all thats sorted to cover north and west NSW then expand back south/east sydney if needed, regarding souths or cronulla

 

[MugaB]

The simple answer is that it won't expand, or at least that it's expansion will very quickly stall (as it already has), because the current clubs with an NRLW license will use it as leverage to demand that they get extra grants to supposedly cover the unforeseen costs of running the NRLW team or threaten to pull out of the comp (or undermine it in some other way), which will continue to create uncertainty around the competition that will prevent expansion until the NRL caves and gives them the extra grants that they demand, which will then further delay expansion of the competition as it suddenly becomes more expensive for the NRL to run.

It's one of the many reasons why the NRL shouldn't have taken the lazy route of intrinsically connecting the NRLW to the NRL clubs instead of building a new competition with brand new women's clubs that are totally focused on growing the game in the female demographic, instead of it being an after thought of the men's competition that is a handy publicity stunt and bargaining chip for the clubs that participate.

I understand the need to link them to a current team, I'm sure these women want to represent their club, as the brand they've always known, not be part of 4 new brands, that everyone might forget about, i do like the idea of the nostalgia teams (newtown, norths, illawarra etc) which would work better in terms of what you're saying so it's somewhat seperated from the men's NRL brand, but the idea is that it shouldn't matter if the team is male or female, its only a comp separation within the NRL
and patrons might treat it as a 2nd tier comp if ir was linked to older past forgotten teams or new brandings

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Agreed, but not all teams within 15km of each other, again souths, easts, cronulla and kogarah are all in the same area of south east/CBD sydney
Expanding to 4-5 teams in sydney is ok
But not all there next to each other, thats currently the issue in NRL now with the Sydney clubs, too many in that area.
I suppose Dragons are at Wollongong half the time now, even so, 3 teams in that southern pocket is ludicrous, you'd have to think one team at bankwest stadium either as parra, wests or dogs, maybe penrith if theres enough talent in far central west/country areas, as well as penriths catchment for women, then go north to Newcastle/north coast,
Once all thats sorted to cover north and west NSW then expand back south/east sydney if needed, regarding souths or cronulla

Well to be honest I just picked two additional random Sydney teams - you can pick whichever ones you like. Probably leaned towards Souths and Sharks because they were the pioneers of the women's game but I don't really care which two replace them.

 

[MugaB]

Well to be honest I just picked two additional random Sydney teams - you can pick whichever ones you like. Probably leaned towards Souths and Sharks because they were the pioneers of the women's game but I don't really care which two replace them.

Well it seemed odd only clubs that side of sydney was in your expansion list,
Like i said there has to be 1-2 west and newy, before going back east again.

My picks would be an 8 team comp
Sydney Chooks.
St.George/Illawarra Dragons.
Brisbane Broncos.
Auckland Warriors.
Wests Tigers.
Newcastle Knights.
Melbourne Storm.
North Queensland Cowgirls.

with a Possible down the line teams
Penrith Panthers.
Canberra Raiders.
Then
South Sydney Rabbitohs.
Cronulla Sharks.

Infact thats kinda what i'd want for NRL mens too, just those teams, plus Perth, Adelaide, NZ2, and Brissy2 in future
The Canterbury Cup would do great with manly, parra and dogs added to it
And titans could end up being brissy2 one day.

 

[T-Boon]

I'd go with a western sydney team but not one of the current NRL clubs. None of Eels, Panthers, Dogs or Tigers supported the start of the competition so relegate them to last in line.
WS Bears maybe. Playing out of Bankwest.

 

[The Great Dane]

I understand the need to link them to a current team

There is no need, it's just the path of least resistance and it'll stunt the potential growth of the professional women's competition as a result.

It's just stupid and lazy, and it's backed by stupid and lazy arguments.

 

[MugaB]

Like i said before the women players of brisbane, are more likely wanting to play for the broncos, as they grew up idolising langer, lewis, walters etc.
It shouldn't matter that the team is female, hence why linking NRLW to an existing team makes sense

 

[The Great Dane]

Like i said before the women players of brisbane, are more likely wanting to play for the broncos, as they grew up idolising langer, lewis, walters etc.
It shouldn't matter that the team is female, hence why linking NRLW to an existing team makes sense

That is a lazy argument that assumes that you need the Broncos for women in Brisbane to be interested in playing the sport, that is obviously false on the face of it because if that was true then the sport wouldn't exist in Brisbane at all because their was in fact a time before the Broncos existed. So if you need an existing brand and narrative to attract people to the sport how can the sport possible exist or be successful if there was such a time that no pre-existing brands and narratives existed, meaning that nobody would have been attracted to the sport in the first place, resulting in it dying with it's creators.

Look if I got the chance to speak with a women that was making this same argument I'd say to them do you want to be remembered as some chick that played for the same club that Langer, Walters, Lazarus, etc, etc, made great, or do you want the opportunity to be remembered as one of the great players that built a new clubs into what it is, i.e. do you want to have played for the same club as the greats or do you want the opportunity to become one of the greats made a club what it is yourself.
Because if you play in the female team of a men's club you'll only ever be a chick who played in the women's team that opened for the main event, where if you start your own club you not only have the opportunity to be the main event but you have the opportunity to write yourself into that's club history just as Langer had the opportunity to write his name into the Broncos history.

Think of it this way: Do you think it's better to be part of Sydney FC's women's team or part of Canberra United?

Sure Sydney FC is a bigger club than Canberra United, but Sydney FC's women's department is smaller than Canberra United's and always will be because most of Sydney FC is resources are focused on the men's team where all of Canberra United's are focused on the women's team.

 

[MugaB]

That is a lazy argument that assumes that you need the Broncos for women in Brisbane to be interested in playing the sport, that is obviously false on the face of it because if that was true then the sport wouldn't exist in Brisbane at all because their was in fact a time before the Broncos existed. So if you need an existing brand and narrative to attract people to the sport how can the sport possible exist or be successful if there was such a time that no pre-existing brands and narratives existed, meaning that nobody would have been attracted to the sport in the first place, resulting in it dying with it's creators.

Look if I got the chance to speak with a women that was making this same argument I'd say to them do you want to be remembered as some chick that played for the same club that Langer, Walters, Lazarus, etc, etc, made great, or do you want the opportunity to be remembered as one of the great players that built a new clubs into what it is, i.e. do you want to have played for the same club as the greats or do you want the opportunity to become one of the greats made a club what it is yourself.
Because if you play in the female team of a men's club you'll only ever be a chick who played in the women's team that opened for the main event, where if you start your own club you not only have the opportunity to be the main event but you have the opportunity to write yourself into that's club history just as Langer had the opportunity to write his name into the Broncos history.

Think of it this way: Do you think it's better to be part of Sydney FC's women's team or part of Canberra United?

Sure Sydney FC is a bigger club than Canberra United, but Sydney FC's women's department is smaller than Canberra United's and always will be because most of Sydney FC is resources are focused on the men's team where all of Canberra United's are focused on the women's team.

I don't look at it as lazy, like you do, if i got to play NRL, i'd like to play for a team that i grew up following, if they're still around, it has nothing to do with laziness, business models and branding aside, players factor in who they'd be playing for not just the money contracted. That's why roosters, storm and broncos are generally getting the marquee signings. But then most players are lucky enough to have a chance to play at that level.
And i don't follow Soccer, so i don't get the examples of syd united vs Canberra. If you have a league reference, im all ears

 

[The Great Dane]

I don't look at it as lazy, like you do, if i got to play NRL, i'd like to play for a team that i grew up following, if they're still around, it has nothing to do with laziness, business models and branding aside, players factor in who they'd be playing for not just the money contracted.

My response to that is either you didn't read my post above or that you need to read it again because you didn't understand it, because it addresses all of that and why it is a lazy argument.

Also if you got to play professionally you'd have played for the club that pays the most and/or offered you the best lifestyle just like everybody else, stop fooling yourself into thinking any different.

That's why roosters, storm and broncos are generally getting the marquee signings. But then most players are lucky enough to have a chance to play at that level.

No, the Rooster, Melbourne, and Broncos sign more marquee players because the markets that they operate in give them easier access to larger amounts of third party money that isn't capped by the NRL, which means that they can offer more money per-contract then most of the competition which leads to them being able to hire more players of a higher standard then most of the competition.

To rehash a joke that is getting rather stale, they are rolling around wearing salary sombreros while most everybody else are stuck wearing caps.

I also find it pretty funny that you think that the Roosters are a particularly well supported club.

And i don't follow Soccer, so i don't get the examples of syd united vs Canberra. If you have a league reference, im all ears

I mean you could have just Googled them...

But to give you a better idea, Canberra United are the only club in the W-league that are independent of the A-league clubs, i.e. there isn't and has never been a Canberra United men's side (or a Canberra A-league side for that matter), and the club was formed by and for women in the interest of growing and supporting women's soccer in the ACT.

So to create a hypothetical analogy in RL, imagine that the NRLW was expanded to include a side that isn't connected to any of the NRL teams from a place without an NRL side, and you'd have what Canberra United are to the W-league in the NRLW.