FO Kearney

[Penrose Warrior]

Gotta say, here’s some real Rose Tinted Glasses rubbish around here at the moment about how good our roster is. Fringe Origin Prop who’s in and out of the team. Over the Hill NSW second rowers, bit part Internationals who play for teams with no depth and are lucky to have gotten a rep jersey in the first place. And that Kiwi Spine, Oh that glorious Kiwi spine, one’s fat and past his best, and anothers body is so obviously broken that anyone who opens their eyes could see it. But wait, they won three tests in a row against Australia didn’t they? That’s right, best in the world, must have been a good coach of that team, except, hang on, can’t be the coach who was good can it?, must have been the players right? But if that’s the case, if they’re so good, why can’t those same players get us some wins here then? Oh right. Because of our coach. Kearney’s fault. Obvious… Wait a sec? Or, here’s a thought, maybe the playing group around the ‘Kiwi Spine’ was better than the turds we are polishing here at the Warriors.

If the guys we have were any good they’d be on the fringe of the 8 each year. At least.

6 Years. Matulino, Lillyman, Vatuvei, Johnson. No finals. Mannering gets a free pass.

4 Years. Fusitua. No Finals.

3 years. Thompson, Vete, Lisone. No Finals.

2 Years. Tuivasa-Sheck, Luke. No Finals.

That’s quite a talented playing group all right.

Read a good article in The Herald on the weekend. By Skipworth I think. Definitely took the emotion out of things. Good dose of the reality of the situation. Knows what he’s talking about.

Opinions are like bumholes I guess, everyone has them (not saying yours is brown and smelly, I just like the saying).

I thought Skipwith's article was apologetic bullshit from a guy who must still have SK's poster on his wall at home.

For a start, coaching international teams and NRL sides is completely different. Bluey McClennan, anyone? At least Bluey did it on his own. Kearney rode Bennett and had Clerary involved at different stages. And his NRL coaching career is far worse than Bluey's. So yeah it's fair to assume at this stage he's rubbish.

And make no bones about the fact that we turned most of your names into bums (Lillyman apart) - under coaches that Doyle either kept on too long or appointed. RTS, best back in the comp to no threat. Hoffman, POTS in NSW's only series win in 13 years to no threat. Luke, best hooker in the comp to unfit and unprofessional. Foran, yeah that's probably different. And our kids, they're not improving at all, in fact they're marching backwards. They, the more experienced guys and kids, could thrive again under a good coach.

A good coach should be making them better. I could name you 8-10 coaches who would have us in the 8, and at least one of them who was available last year. So really I'm pretty sure SK has more than enough to work with.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

Are they? I haven't seen much evidence of that in the last 6 years.

Our pack are bottom4, but it's more than an individual level, collectively they're nearly all the same type of player. Hell, half the pack is within 2cm and 2kgs of each other with little variation outside of that. I think all our players are between 102-110kgs while other teams nearly always have 1-2 who are bigger than our biggest or a forward or two who are smaller and nimble.

We're just throwing the exact same thing at them play after play, no wonder it becomes like tackling practice for the opposition.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Are they? I haven't seen much evidence of that in the last 6 years.

Not much, no. They've had shit coaches. But there's been signs that they can and I don't think anyone doubts that a good coach would have us running in the 8, with the plum draw and ability to deal with in this squad. Even Ivan has Tui improving after a month or so, and we all had him down as a no hoper.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I'm more talking about the other forum where some of the JD venom is getting pretty constant and mainly revolving around the idea that he said he'd quit.

Well that's amateur then, which from what I've heard is in keeping with that forum.

Our pack might be bottom 4 too, but if we'd managed to keep Ben interested, Jake as 2nd/3rd banana, Gavet plus Lisone/Vete had come on, it would be much better. But shit coaching means it's not.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

We have a small sample size of success, but our two periods of success seemed to have a couple of similarities.

1) A hard nosed Aussie in the middle (Campion, Luck)

2) A point of difference in the pack (Ali, Mateo etc)

3) X-Factor on the bench. Not necessarily the best players, but guys who could come on and just do something to change the game (Faumuina, Hohaia when he was bench hooker etc)

Right now we have none, and when Roache is there we never actually use him. Maumalo could and should have been developed for that edge bacrow role but instead we decided Manu lite was the way to go.

Like I said, our sample size of success is small, but I wouldn't object to going that way a third time.

 

[Cold Roses]

Opinions are like bumholes I guess, everyone has them (not saying yours is brown and smelly, I just like the saying).

I thought Skipwith's article was apologetic bullshit from a guy who must still have SK's poster on his wall at home.

For a start, coaching international teams and NRL sides is completely different. Bluey McClennan, anyone? At least Bluey did it on his own. Kearney rode Bennett and had Clerary involved at different stages. And his NRL coaching career is far worse than Bluey's. So yeah it's fair to assume at this stage he's rubbish.

And make no bones about the fact that we turned most of your names into bums (Lillyman apart) - under coaches that Doyle either kept on too long or appointed. RTS, best back in the comp to no threat. Hoffman, POTS in NSW's only series win in 13 years to no threat. Luke, best hooker in the comp to unfit and unprofessional. Foran, yeah that's probably different. And our kids, they're not improving at all, in fact they're marching backwards. They, the more experienced guys and kids, could thrive again under a good coach.

A good coach should be making them better. I could name you 8-10 coaches who would have us in the 8, and at least one of them who was available last year. So really I'm pretty sure SK has more than enough to work with.

Maybe Skipworth is a lot closer in the details of the situation than any of us on this forum are?

No one is disputing that coaching International teams is different to the NRL. But you can't have it both ways. If the Players are good enough to win there then they should be good enough to win in the Nrl.

I guess time is going to tell. To be honest it seems like you wouldn't be happy with any coach who came here unless it's Cleary. It seems like the players can't do any wrong. It's not their fault because they aren't being coached properly. How about the fact they probably just aren't as good as you think they are? Doesn't matter what the reasons are. Over the Hill, underdeveloped. The reality is that the roster just isn't as great as it's made out to be.

 

[Cold Roses]

I could name you 8-10 coaches who would have us in the 8, and at least one of them who was available last year. So really I'm pretty sure SK has more than enough to work with.

I really don't believe this would be the case. Maybe 2 years ago, even last year. Maybe. But the stink is too deep in this place now. If the stories that Iafeta alluded to are even halfway on the money, then there is no miracle cure. Some of the shit that has been mentioned is just amateur hour stuff. What do you actually want from this club. Do you want them to get in the 8 each year only to lose at the first, sometimes second hurdle as we so often have done? Or do you want to be a serious contender for a title. The first option is what this group are capable of. Regardless of the coach. I don't give a flying f**k about missing the 8 this year, not if next year the players start to actually realize what is expected from them. And hopefully the ones that don't get it will be gone. I have absolutely zero sentimentality for any player at this club right now. I don't care who leaves. As long as whoever replaces them gives more of a damn than the current crop of Wendy's munching, Instagraming, Gym graffiti'ng bludgers.

I've said it before, but just for the record, I don't actually know yet how good a coach Kearney is. Or can become. But every instinct I have, along with 30 years of watching Rugby League, tells me we don't have the playing group to be successful. Just my smelly bunghole opinion

 

[RHYTHM AND STEALTH]

Not much, no. They've had shit coaches. But there's been signs that they can and I don't think anyone doubts that a good coach would have us running in the 8, with the plum draw and ability to deal with in this squad. Even Ivan has Tui improving after a month or so, and we all had him down as a no hoper.

Whats the other forum

 

[Cold Roses]

Whats the other forum

NZ Warriors Forum. Enter at your own risk. That place is an Asylum. Get ready for lots of 'We just need to go hard ow ! ' and 'Kata to hooker' posts.

 

[RHYTHM AND STEALTH]

Oh
Think i was a member of that years ago. Infact i was a mod till i found out that the owners could read PMs. But thats another story

 

[Cold Roses]

Infact i was a mod till i found out that the owners could read PMs.

Wtf! Come on. Fill us in. We could all use a laugh about now.

 

[vvvrulz]

NZ Warriors Forum. Enter at your own risk. That place is an Asylum. Get ready for lots of 'We just need to go hard ow ! ' and 'Kata to hooker' posts.

That's a lot like some of the Facebook pages, anyone making sensible criticism gets blasted for being a 'hater' and 'not a true fan'. In my opinion, the true fans call a spade a spade and still ride it out, that's commitment.

 

[vvvrulz]

Incidentally, did anyone listen to Isaac Luke on Radio Sport?

Dude sounded like he was on a chill on the couch with a lazy Tui; mumbling on about how it's real tough but they're trying real hard, and a couple of 50/50 calls would have meant last week they'd only be two points behind. Yeah he's been there, Souths was tough too at times you know. Learning, process, faith.

So uninspiring.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Maybe Skipworth is a lot closer in the details of the situation than any of us on this forum are?

No one is disputing that coaching International teams is different to the NRL. But you can't have it both ways. If the Players are good enough to win there then they should be good enough to win in the Nrl.

I guess time is going to tell. To be honest it seems like you wouldn't be happy with any coach who came here unless it's Cleary. It seems like the players can't do any wrong. It's not their fault because they aren't being coached properly. How about the fact they probably just aren't as good as you think they are? Doesn't matter what the reasons are. Over the Hill, underdeveloped. The reality is that the roster just isn't as great as it's made out to be.

I doubt he knows anything more than you and I. I've been in that job (not his, but similar) and it's not a door into the inner sanctum of knowledge.

The players are partly at fault, no doubt. But coaches are so important in the NRL. Players don't coach themselves, they'll generally (with exceptions like Simon) respond positively or negatively to the leadership they've given.

I know I piss on about Ivan but it's my particular bitterness towards a guy who should be in charge now, but was overlooked for whatever absurd reason. I'd be happy with Maguire. I'd be happy with Green, Robinson, Bellamy, Flanaghan, Barrett, Hasler, Arthur and Henry (not Bennett, awful person - only need to look at Newcastle to see why)

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I've said it before, but just for the record, I don't actually know yet how good a coach Kearney is. Or can become. But every instinct I have, along with 30 years of watching Rugby League, tells me we don't have the playing group to be successful. Just my smelly bunghole opinion

Good on ya bro haha.

I reckon most of those coaches above could have arrived in November and had us in the eight throughout the season. But we'll never know because we appointed ANOTHER untested NRL coach. The idea that you have to mould a side and have it adapt to you over time as a coach is pretty absurd in my book. Trent Robinson won a premiership in his first year and won the minor premiership the next two. Paul Green gave his first year a massive shake then won in his second. When you get a rabble of a playing list like Flanagan did after Stuart, or Brown after Bennett, fair enough. Not the case here.

 

[Cold Roses]

Good on ya bro haha.

I reckon most of those coaches above could have arrived in November and had us in the eight throughout the season. But we'll never know because we appointed ANOTHER untested NRL coach. The idea that you have to mould a side and have it adapt to you over time as a coach is pretty absurd in my book. Trent Robinson won a premiership in his first year and won the minor premiership the next two. Paul Green gave his first year a massive shake then won in his second. When you get a rabble of a playing list like Flanagan did after Stuart, or Brown after Bennett, fair enough. Not the case here.

Don't forget, and bear in mind I think he's a very very good coach, Paul Green actually inherited a side who had played finals for 3 years before he took over the team. It was actually a surprise to a lot of people at the time that they dumped Henry for an unproven coach. Still an amazing accomplishment though. Robinson is closer to our situation in that he took over a side that wasn't performing. But the difference there, and where our difference of opinion comes, is that imo he had a group of guys to work with who had more benefit and upside of basic skills and mental ability drilled into them from a younger age. Add in superstar and astute signings in his first year and he was starting from a better foundation than our situation.

I know we won't agree on this in a hurry. And there's no reason we have to. I just believe there are bigger problems that we have to deal with than the coach at the moment. Once we see the stink driven out of the place we'll be in a better position for success. I want a long term fix, not a short one.

 

[Cold Roses]

not Bennett, awful person - only need to look at Newcastle to see why)

Now that we agree on. I'd be quite happy if the Broncos and the Storm for that matter didn't win again for another 10 years.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Don't forget, and bear in mind I think he's a very very good coach, Paul Green actually inherited a side who had played finals for 3 years before he took over the team. It was actually a surprise to a lot of people at the time that they dumped Henry for an unproven coach. Still an amazing accomplishment though. Robinson is closer to our situation in that he took over a side that wasn't performing. But the difference there, and where our difference of opinion comes, is that imo he had a group of guys to work with who had more benefit and upside of basic skills and mental ability drilled into them from a younger age. Add in superstar and astute signings in his first year and he was starting from a better foundation than our situation.

I know we won't agree on this in a hurry. And there's no reason we have to. I just believe there are bigger problems that we have to deal with than the coach at the moment. Once we see the stink driven out of the place we'll be in a better position for success. I want a long term fix, not a short one.

It's a great discussion so I hope we don't agree in a hurry, it'd get boring real quick.

I guess I'm just continuing to struggle with the fact my club sucks because we had a coach who was up to it, we let him go (with no decent replacement) then refused to take him back and overlooked for a less credentially coach. Maybe that's part of my issue with Kearney. Maybe it's that three of his predecessors were unproven, unmitigated disasters and I'm sick to death of it. I gave Elliott time from memory, and McFadden (at least a season) so yeah maybe it's just circumstance that I've had it with SK already and can't see any future in him. So it's my disgust at the club and my admiration for Ivan Cleary that's muddying my view, quite possibly. But then again, I don't see any signs that Kearney can coach.

 

[WellsNZ]

Opinions are like bumholes I guess, everyone has them (not saying yours is brown and smelly, I just like the saying).

I thought Skipwith's article was apologetic bullshit from a guy who must still have SK's poster on his wall at home.

For a start, coaching international teams and NRL sides is completely different. Bluey McClennan, anyone? At least Bluey did it on his own. Kearney rode Bennett and had Clerary involved at different stages. And his NRL coaching career is far worse than Bluey's. So yeah it's fair to assume at this stage he's rubbish.

And make no bones about the fact that we turned most of your names into bums (Lillyman apart) - under coaches that Doyle either kept on too long or appointed. RTS, best back in the comp to no threat. Hoffman, POTS in NSW's only series win in 13 years to no threat. Luke, best hooker in the comp to unfit and unprofessional. Foran, yeah that's probably different. And our kids, they're not improving at all, in fact they're marching backwards. They, the more experienced guys and kids, could thrive again under a good coach.

A good coach should be making them better. I could name you 8-10 coaches who would have us in the 8, and at least one of them who was available last year. So really I'm pretty sure SK has more than enough to work with.

This really is those rose tinted glasses again though.

When was Luke the best hooker in the comp? Unsurprisingly, Luke looked much better behind a big, dominating Souths back had the team going forward constantly.

RTS best back in the comp? No. Was shaping up to look like he could be going that way, in a dominant team with great talent all across the park that was basically the perfect environment for him.

Hoffman was NSW player of the series, how long ago now? The man is 33 and has logged over 300 first grade games, he isn't going to be the same player he was years ago. NRL teams don't exactly seem to have been lining up to sign him, I wonder why that is if he is still so great?

There's at least 10 better rosters in the NRL and I'd say even more than that.

 

[WellsNZ]

Not much, no. They've had shit coaches. But there's been signs that they can and I don't think anyone doubts that a good coach would have us running in the 8, with the plum draw and ability to deal with in this squad. Even Ivan has Tui improving after a month or so, and we all had him down as a no hoper.

I 100% doubt it so it isn't accurate to say nobody doubts it.

I pointed out how flawed this roster is before the season started, I predicted they're a fringe 8 team at best, and that's exactly what they are and will continue to be because this group just isn't as good as some want to believe.

When your forwards are shit, you aren't shit.