Foreign participation in Challenge Cup

[langpark]

I know French teams regularly take part in the Challenge Cup and I remember some Russian teams played a few years back too. I was just wondering, how does a foreign club go about applying to compete in the early stages of the Challenge Cup, does anyone know?

 

[biggestbroncosfan]

I know French teams regularly take part in the Challenge Cup and I remember some Russian teams played a few years back too. I was just wondering, how does a foreign club go about applying to compete in the early stages of the Challenge Cup, does anyone know?

love to see an Italian team apply..

 

[bowes]

they can't apply, it's purely the RFL's invitation. This year they've decided not to invite the champions of the biggest amateur league (despite them having knocked out a pro club not all that long ago) purely because it's in winter and they're looking at reducing not increasing the number of teams.

I do have an issue with the French club situation as it smacks of tokenism inviting just the champions plus Toulouse each year. Should either be all French Elite 1 clubs invited or just a British competition for me (though obviously that raises other questions about Catalans)

 

[langpark]

Thanks bowes, I knew you'd have the answer!

So, a few years ago, the RFL basically invited the Russian teams to compete, is that right? There must have been some prior communication between the two though, the Russians would have surely asked to be invited...

Anyway, it would be nice if they could expand it a little bit in the coming years. People always go on about continental European teams joining the Super League one day, which we all know isn't going to happen anytime soon. But I think playing in the first round of the CC would be great and is a far more realistic objective. I'm sure several Euro countries could put forward a decent team to play against a British ameteur team...

 

[bowes]

they reduced it from 57 to 44 community clubs this year because they were having to start in November. 17 clubs also had to start a round earlier.

Yeah assume there was an agreement with Russia, they also used to have 4 French teams.

The thing is though they're looking to expand the semi-pro game and each new semi-pro club means either:
A. 4 less community clubs or
B. 1 less French club

In practice they're considering letting SL teams enter a round later which will massively reduce the number of invites (before the 1993-94 season they only invited 2 amateur clubs)

 

[deal.with.it]

I think it would be great for international promotion to invite the domestic champion of other Euro nations.
Just depends which way the RFL want to take the CC.
I think the likes of Serbia, Italy, Russia, Ukraine, Czech etc could be competitive in the first round.
But as Bowes said, it means further structural decisions will have to be made

 

[Steve Davy]

It would be an interesting idea.

However, the main help that the RFL/RLEF offer is on the technical side, match officials and coaching training. Any competition that includes travel may very well be more effort than it is worth, as that cost can be directed elsewhere.

Also, imagine that the Czech, Danish or Italian champions get through the first round. We know that would be an upset and an extreme achievement. Equally, they might (very unlikely) squeeze through to the third round, an outstanding accomplishment. It would be very hard to convince people in the home countries that this is a big deal. Coverage in the British newspapers and TV would be at best minimal and the impression that this is a 'big deal' would be even harder to convey.

That said, I speak with one national viewpoint, there may be others for whom it would be lots of potential.

 

[Steve Davy]

Thanks bowes, I knew you'd have the answer!

So, a few years ago, the RFL basically invited the Russian teams to compete, is that right? There must have been some prior communication between the two though, the Russians would have surely asked to be invited...

Anyway, it would be nice if they could expand it a little bit in the coming years. People always go on about continental European teams joining the Super League one day, which we all know isn't going to happen anytime soon. But I think playing in the first round of the CC would be great and is a far more realistic objective. I'm sure several Euro countries could put forward a decent team to play against a British ameteur team...

Continental teams joining Super League is not that absurd. Thinking we can build organic growth to the point where one is natural is absurd. However, to get a club with four figure crowds in a very rich city, with a largely affluent following (no class prejudice once you leave traditional boundaries) is possible. If an Oslo or Munich team had four figure crowds and support from the council to use a stadium free of charge (not absurd) and affluent sponsors (possible), then should Super League choose them, Halifax, or Leigh?

 

[bowes]

Personally I think there's more of a case for the Danish, Czech etc champions to be playing each other so there's a chance of a trophy at the end of it. Must be easier to sell a match against other national champion clubs for a title than against northern village teams. You could put the Scottish, Welsh and Irish clubs there as well. Maybe invite the French Elite and (British) Championship (or Championship 1 if we go for Super League 2?) winners at the semi final stage.

As for continental team in SL, think if by 4 figure sum you mean 1000 then that won't be enough, but it could easily support a team in the French Elite

 

[deluded pom?]

Is there any foreign involvement in the CC any more? I thought even the French teams had been dumped?

http://www.thechallengecup.com/news_video/article/34280/tetleys-challenge-cup-invitees-announced

 

[Steve Davy]

Personally I think there's more of a case for the Danish, Czech etc champions to be playing each other so there's a chance of a trophy at the end of it. Must be easier to sell a match against other national champion clubs for a title than against northern village teams. You could put the Scottish, Welsh and Irish clubs there as well. Maybe invite the French Elite and (British) Championship (or Championship 1 if we go for Super League 2?) winners at the semi final stage.

As for continental team in SL, think if by 4 figure sum you mean 1000 then that won't be enough, but it could easily support a team in the French Elite

It is easier to sell a game again Malmø, Hamburg or Stockholm than a one off against Leigh, Castleford or Halifax. This is very true.

That said, I am not sure how much of a draw Prague would be either and the costs of for them to come over and stay would be prohibitive. For now, Malmø, Jylland and Lund are excellent opponents.

An Antwerp team with a TV deal, and high level sponsorship and low requirements for home attendances would put the cat amongst the pigeons as it would be a greater asset than Leigh or Keighley. That said, it won't happen and the pigeons will remain undisturbed (and unfed).

 

[bowes]

Is there any foreign involvement in the CC any more? I thought even the French teams had been dumped?

http://www.thechallengecup.com/news_video/article/34280/tetleys-challenge-cup-invitees-announced

They decided to carry on inviting 2 French clubs for the time being, but I suspect the days are numbered

 

[RL The greatest game]

Correct if I'm wrong, but i seem to think that there was at least one amateur club from Ireland and Scotland in the comp when i lived in the UK wasn't there?

 

[deluded pom?]

Correct if I'm wrong, but i seem to think that there was at least one amateur club from Ireland and Scotland in the comp when i lived in the UK wasn't there?

Scotland and Wales will both have teams in the 2014 CC but I don't think Ireland have had a representative for a few years.

 

[roughyedspud]

have ireland ever had a team in the CC?

 

[bowes]

yeah they used to invite the Irish champions but they nearly always forfeited the fixture so the invite was revoked. The Russian invite got dropped when their national league collapsed.

To be fair it's very rare the Welsh club actually turns up for the fixture either, Scottish clubs have a much better record of attendance

 

[Bronco Rob]

Continental teams joining Super League is not that absurd. Thinking we can build organic growth to the point where one is natural is absurd. However, to get a club with four figure crowds in a very rich city, with a largely affluent following (no class prejudice once you leave traditional boundaries) is possible. If an Oslo or Munich team had four figure crowds and support from the council to use a stadium free of charge (not absurd) and affluent sponsors (possible), then should Super League choose them, Halifax, or Leigh?

I think one day the RFL are going to have a conundrum on their hands with the Super League. Do they remain with the status quo of having teams from small towns in the north of England thus restricting them of gaining corporate sponsors and being a small player in the English sporting market or do they bite the bullet and look at establishing clubs in high population areas beyond its borders with the chance of gaining corporate sponsors and globalising the game?

For the ESL the biggest burden on them needs to be their biggest asset in the London Broncos. For true national exposure and future sustainability they need to have a successful side in the capital but unfortunately we have a basket case and they may need to bite the bullet and start from scratch but there needs to be a side in London.

 

[bowes]

turns out the French clubs have pulled out of their own accord as the RFL left space in the draw for them but have had to give 2 Championship clubs a bye instead