Franchises

[WireMan]

So what is everyones opinion on whether franchises has worked?

The expansion club has folded.
There is still a huge gap between the top and bottom.
Average Aussies still being signed by clubs.
Teams still going bust.
Bad will from lower league clubs who have nothing to really play for.

Why don't we just have this final 3 years of franchises now. Give teams time to sort stuff out and get good foundations and say after these next 3 years promotion and relegation are back in.

Thoughts?

 

[langpark]

I hate it and wish they would scrap it.

I understand why they did it, but there are other solutions to the problems they were having. It works in Aus, but not is the UK. Here's my solution;

Promotion and Relegation happens every second year, the points accumulate over the two years, the team with the least drops, end of. The highest two NL1 teams over the two years meet in a GF to decide who goes up (at the home venue of the higher placed team). The loser, plays second from bottom SL team in a one-off match, meaning every two years, two teams can potentially go up and down.

To me this is the best compromise between the 'stability' argument, and the old system.


The current system is terrible if you're not in SL. Honestly now, what do you tell a Leigh, Halifax, Featherstone fan, or any other fan of a team in the NL1? What reason do they have to go to a game? What motivation? I can't think of any....

 

[VictoryFC]

The benefits of P/R cannot be overstated. They can say what they want, but the effects of P/R are clear for all to see.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

I actually think it has helped in giving clubs stability. Before it, there is no way Castleford could have been where they are now.

The smaller clubs are more likely to sign better players because the players feel more secure knowing the club will be around for a few years.

I like the way it is, but I'm not so up to date on the goings on of the SL clubs these days.

 

[jason taylor]

The problem I saw in the old system was that basically the same teams were being promoted/relegated yearly. The team that got promoted was usually out of depth and got relegated the next season.

 

[nadera78]

I support the new system. The problem with Crusaders wasn't the licencing it was that it was run by chancers and liars who have ripped off players, fans, the RFL, the other clubs. And they're doing it to Wrexham FC as well.

 

[roughyedspud]

i'd like to see a end to franchising......as it obviously means nothing if a teams like halifax or leigh who busted a gut to meet the critieria,build new stadia/stands.....while teams like wakefield & castleford do f**k all and still get in


i'd like the focus to be aimed at bridging the gap between super league and the championship with promotion & relegation between the 2 decided via a play off game between the bottom SL club & top championship club......obviously 9 times out of 10 the SL club will win

i'd expand the championship to 14 or 16...and use championship 1 as a development league with the usual gateshead,skolars,rochdale etc...plus extra welsh & scottish clubs..as well as the likes of coventry & hemel etc... and would also use the bottom v top play off game to decide P&R..

 

[langpark]

I think also the longer franchising goes on the bigger the divide will become. Rich get richer, poor get poorer. If I were Halifax or any NL1 team, I would have threatened/floated the idea of a breakaway competition. I think they could make a decent go of it too. Especially if they invite 3 or so top French teams in too.

It's the perfect threat I think, even if it is an empty threat, as it would dilute the Super League in many ways...

 

[Evil Homer]

Funny how a lot of Aussies seem to support P&R, I guess because they see it at a novelty. No offence but if you put any serious thought into it at all, you would see why P&R is such a completely and utterly stupid system. I appreciate that it's difficult to properly understand from thousands of miles away, but trust me when I say that licensing is the best possible thing for the game in the UK at this time.

 

[langpark]

Funny how a lot of Aussies seem to support P&R, I guess because they see it at a novelty. No offence but if you put any serious thought into it at all, you would see why P&R is such a completely and utterly stupid system. I appreciate that it's difficult to properly understand from thousands of miles away, but trust me when I say that licensing is the best possible thing for the game in the UK at this time.

I was waiting to hear your opinion Homer, since I know you're pro-franchise. But you let me down with this post, I was expecting at least some reasoning and rationale etc but you gave us nothing.

I can't speak for all Aussies, but for me personally, there is nothing 'novelty' at all about P&R. I grew up watching mainly only two sporting league. NRL, and English Premier League, so I have been used to both systems.

In Aus, franchising is more suitable. There are only 5 cities in Aus with populations over 1 million. The possibility of a city like Brisbane having no team in the top league, while a small town like Dubbo (for example) gets in would not really be a good thing for the overall good of the game.

In England, it's not a case of a few major cities dominating the landscape, it's more an even spread of the population.

To me it's like building a huge fortress and allowing only some to live inside. Of course these select few will be better off and only become stronger, while those stuck on the outside will be left to starve.

Seriously now. What motivation do lower league players and fans have to show up week in week out?

I think what it comes down to is that you support a Super League team. If you supported an NL1 team, you may change your tune...

 

[Evil Homer]

I was waiting to hear your opinion Homer, since I know you're pro-franchise. But you let me down with this post, I was expecting at least some reasoning and rationale etc but you gave us nothing.

I can't speak for all Aussies, but for me personally, there is nothing 'novelty' at all about P&R. I grew up watching mainly only two sporting league. NRL, and English Premier League, so I have been used to both systems.

In Aus, franchising is more suitable. There are only 5 cities in Aus with populations over 1 million. The possibility of a city like Brisbane having no team in the top league, while a small town like Dubbo (for example) gets in would not really be a good thing for the overall good of the game.

In England, it's not a case of a few major cities dominating the landscape, it's more an even spread of the population.

To me it's like building a huge fortress and allowing only some to live inside. Of course these select few will be better off and only become stronger, while those stuck on the outside will be left to starve.

Seriously now. What motivation do lower league players and fans have to show up week in week out?

I think what it comes down to is that you support a Super League team. If you supported an NL1 team, you may change your tune...

I don't support any team really, I generally just support the expansion teams. My local team at the moment is an expansion side in Championship 1 side so I guess you could say I am fairly neutral.

I didn't give a full reasoning because it would take quite a while to construct that post and I don't really have time right now (there are a lot of reasons ;-)). But if you follow English soccer, P&R between Super League and the Championship in RL would be like the equivalent of automatic P&R between the English Championship and the Conference Premier division. The fact is that, in RL, there aren't enough strong clubs in the UK to sustain a system of automatic P&R, promoting from a semi-pro league into a full-time league isn't ever going to work and lower league clubs aren't ever going to come up to standard if they are constantly spending their limited budget on overpaying players to try and win the division. It's different in soccer because the Championship clubs are all already big clubs, many of them have larger average attendances than EPL clubs. If it was a similar case in British RL then I'd be 100% behind P&R, but sadly there's absolutely no comparison.

 

[langpark]

Fair points. But if what you're saying is true, I believe we're only making the divide even bigger by excluding the lower teams completely.

As things are now, I think Halifax and Leigh would be capable of making the transition. Why make it impossible for these two just because some other clubs in the league aren't in such great shape? You can't tell me if these two went up, that they would far off the likes of Wakefield, Cas, Salford, Quins etc.

 

[bender]

Fair points. But if what you're saying is true, I believe we're only making the divide even bigger by excluding the lower teams completely.

As things are now, I think Halifax and Leigh would be capable of making the transition. Why make it impossible for these two just because some other clubs in the league aren't in such great shape? You can't tell me if these two went up, that they would far off the likes of Wakefield, Cas, Salford, Quins etc.

Redcliffe and Easts coudl make the transition to NRL without too much trouble, why dont you think that there should be relegation in Australia?

 

[bender]

I think also the longer franchising goes on the bigger the divide will become. Rich get richer, poor get poorer. If I were Halifax or any NL1 team, I would have threatened/floated the idea of a breakaway competition. I think they could make a decent go of it too. Especially if they invite 3 or so top French teams in too.

It's the perfect threat I think, even if it is an empty threat, as it would dilute the Super League in many ways...

If a breakaway competition were to form, ironically, depending on which sides were to go or stay, it might look something like this:

1. Celtic Crusaders
2. South Wales Scorpions
3. Rumoured New Valleys team from Wales
4. London Skolars
5. Sheffield Eagles
6. Gateshead Thunder
7. Toulouse Olympic
8. Lezignan
9. Stade Francais
10 Leigh
11 Halifax
12 Barrow

Might give the European Flavour and British spread everyone wanted:crazy:

 

[bender]

there is a number of annoying things going around.

Celtic are used as the example of failed franchising. Let us not forget, that if P&R was in place, Celtic would have went up when they did! And they also would have come down this year! No major difference.

And the nothing to play for argument is ridiculous. Is the championship not something to play for? In fact, if it was promoted properly, it can be much more beneficial to the club because the wages bill is not so high (even allowing for them money clubs miss out on). IN fact, i forget who it was, either Castleford, or Salford or Maybe Leigh, whose crowds actually dropped when the went up into the Superleague, or rose when they dropped down the division. The second division is not a nothing competition.

In fact, i wouldnt have minded Salford and Castleford dropping into the second division. That way, it would have really beefed it up and we could have seen some great crowds and these clubs could grow naturally with each other, with the best clubs making a ESL bid, if they want to. the problem with the licencing system, is that there are not really 14 clubs ready for SUper league. And strategically, the ones in their that are furtherest away, are the ones that the competition most needs a present.

 

[WireMan]

The divide is already to big and the next big thing the rfl has to do is reduce the gap.

The only way it can be achieved is to use some of its profits and some of the bail out money it wastes on super league to put more money into the comp. That way in three years Leigh, Halifax, Barrow, Fev etc. have a hope in hell of comparing.

Problem at the mo is there is very little to play for in the championship. You could win plenty of silverware but still not be promoted in front of a team who were in administration, gone back on promises, no stadium. What more could fax do? Answer is nothing in the current set up. So whats to keep fans coming back.

Promotion and relegation is not a stupid idea. Swansea are going to struggle in the prem next year, should they not be allowed up? Tell that to the fans who may go on a once in a life time journey to the biggest teams in the land. Ask Blackpool fans whether promotion is a good idea, ask Wigan FC, they are still there after a few years.

Maybe Whitehaven will come up for a season. Its the only way Cumbria will ever get a team in super league because they will never have a Franchise in the current system. Maybe a year struggling against Wigan, Leeds, Warrington, Saints etc. may be more fun than another season in the championship with any good players wanting to leave for the big league.