The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[ground zero]

Just call yourself The Raiders 3 games in Perth 3 games in Adelaide 3 games in Brisbane 3 games in Sydney. Till they build a Stadium befitting the Nations Capital.

 

[Captain Apollo]

The government doesn't want to help. Get the NRL to pay for it.

Why should the NRL fund it? The NRL, nor the Raiders for that matter own the ground. Its Government owned. As the owner, they are responsible for its upkeep and maintenance, not its tenants, of whom the Raiders are only one.

This is just another example of chromic non-spending over decades by the ACT Government.

 

[Wb1234]

They originally said they would move games to nz

This sounds like they are moving games to qld which is a smart move

They will make way more money and pressure that pro afl chief minister to stop wasting money on afl and sort out the situation for the three teams that need a modern regtangular stadium

Furner is to be applauded

Looks like their home game v Gold Coast will go to Gold Coast and dolphins game to Suncorp

 

[jim_57]

You’d think it’d be too late to change this year’s games, surely.

Seems like Raiders are in a tricky position here, it may or may not get results but you can bet a lot of fans won’t “get it” regarding the stadium issues and see it as their team abandoning the fans.

On the flip side of it if they don’t do anything there is zero pressure on Barr to do anything unless something drastic happens. Even then he’d probably just tell them to move to Manuka indefinitely while another 3 feasibility studies are done.

 

[Captain Apollo]

This article is behind a paywall, so if anyone can post the text I'd be greatful, as its author makes some very salient points.

Beg, borrow, steal: The secrets of success for Sydney’s NRL clubs

Manly, St George Illawarra, Wests Tigers and Cronulla are spiritually aligned to ageing and crumbling suburban grounds, but at what cost?

www.smh.com.au

 

[Wb1234]

This article is behind a paywall, so if anyone can post the text I'd be greatful, as its author makes some very salient points.

Beg, borrow, steal: The secrets of success for Sydney’s NRL clubs

Manly, St George Illawarra, Wests Tigers and Cronulla are spiritually aligned to ageing and crumbling suburban grounds, but at what cost?

www.smh.com.au

On March 11, 1941, the Germans launched yet another bombing raid on Manchester, this time targeting the Trafford Park Industrial area.

Some of the bombs missed, hitting nearby Old Trafford, the home of Manchester United.

It was destroyed bar one small bit – the players’ race.

The decision was made to rebuild a new Old Trafford right there, using the race as a centrepiece.

When you tour the grand old lady, the guides tell the story that several options were put forward to rebuild Old Trafford somewhere in the vicinity, until the chairman of the day, James W Gibson, said: “We’ll rebuild it right here and keep the tunnel. If the Germans can’t destroy us, no-one will.”

The tunnel is now known as “The Munich Tunnel” to honour the eight Manchester United players and three staff who died in the Munich air disaster of 1958 when the team was travelling back from a European Cup match.

The 74,000-seat stadium is famous the world over and, while dripping with history, water drips on patrons in the old grandstands and it doesn’t have big screens. It’s grand, but it’s also a million miles from modern.

Time waits for no one and nothing and the old girl, history and all, will come down. Manchester United is building a state-of-the-art, 100,000 seat, $4 billion stadium nearby with all the mod cons, big screens included. It’s been years in the making and the club is slowly getting fans used to the idea.

It will be ready for the start of the 2030-31 season.

Manly, St George Illawarra, the Wests Tigers and Cronulla should take note. While obviously far smaller on a world scale, they face the same problem.

The clubs, and their fans, are spiritually aligned to ageing and crumbling suburban grounds. The sense of history, coupled with convenience, mean they don’t want to move.

Manly and Cronulla fans won’t cop travelling to Allianz, or other stadiums. Who wants to travel back to the shire, or the northern beaches, after 6pm on a Sunday or at 10pm on a Thursday, Friday or Saturday regularly?

Manly fans love Brookvale. It’s been a sellout-a-thon ever since the new Bob Fulton Stand was finished at the northern end.

Wests Tigers fans love Leichhardt, and they seem to tolerate the soulless and colourless Campbelltown to a lesser extent.

The club hierarchy doesn’t love them, though. CEO Shane Richardson knows there is no money, and no growth, in playing in busted stadiums with appalling corporate facilities. He’s 100 per cent correct.

CommBank Stadium, on the other hand, is outstanding.

St George Illawarra fans seem to cope with Kogarah and WIN in Wollongong; WIN the pick of the two. Kogarah, in particular, is like an old Falcon compared to a new Merc. It gets you around OK, and Dicky Johnson drove one just fine back in the day, but you can’t drive it forever.

Sharks fans may not ‘love’ Shark Park, but it’s in their backyard. Many walk there. Allianz is a train ride, then a tram ride, then a walk away.

But Shark Park is a bomb site that has no right hosting NRL matches in the modern era. The construction of the new licensed club has been a disaster. It closed in 2019 and was due for completion in 2022. Nothing’s happened and the club and the developer are in dispute.

Time is ticking in the shire and it is an appalling state of affairs that it has drifted and drifted to the point it’s 2025 and there’s nothing doing.

Getting a new stadium was the missing piece of the Penrith puzzle. They were early adopters of a centre of excellence, which is located out the back of its booming precinct – an all-in-one club, entertainment, residential and multi-hotel complex. But their stadium was old.

It was on crown land, but the club managed it. The state government is building them a $300m ripper in time for the 2026 season. The Panthers hand control over to Venues NSW as part of the deal. Give a bit, take a lot.

One CEO said: “You have to think of it like a hotel. The Travelodge, perfectly fine, can charge $195 a night. But the five-star Hilton can charge $500. Stadiums are exactly the same when it comes to the corporate dollar.”

Another said: “Corporates go to Allianz and CommBank then come back to our ground and it’s embarrassing really. We have no chance for growth.”

Corporates are where the big money is at. Like business-class seats on a flight and high-roller rooms at a casino.

The question of course is – where does the money come from? You beg, steal and borrow.

Inner West Mayor Darcy Byrne did just that, securing $40 million from the state and federal governments after his public campaign to save Leichhardt. It’s not much but it’s something.

Lobby governments and councils, look for private partners. Allow Venues NSW to control the ground, like Penrith did. Give a bit, take a lot.

Whatever it takes.

If Manchester United with that much history on the line can do it, anyone can, if you are willing to do the deal.“

Neil breen is a dope

 

[Mother Nature's Son]

This article is behind a paywall, so if anyone can post the text I'd be greatful, as its author makes some very salient points.

Beg, borrow, steal: The secrets of success for Sydney’s NRL clubs

Manly, St George Illawarra, Wests Tigers and Cronulla are spiritually aligned to ageing and crumbling suburban grounds, but at what cost?

www.smh.com.au

I saw this is idiot author in a `debate` posted on here recently called Code Wars or something, he sat there like a goose saying to his pro-fumble opponent that yes the fumbles were more accepted in NSW and Qld than vice-versa while his mate opposite nodded eagerly in approval. What Breen failed to mention was the almost total media black-out League has faced in Victoria since forever, something as a `journalist` he must have known.
I didn`t read the article your referring to because it seems to me the Herald has found another so-called friend of League to replace that pudding Webster.

 

[flippikat]

Just call yourself The Raiders 3 games in Perth 3 games in Adelaide 3 games in Brisbane 3 games in Sydney. Till they build a Stadium befitting the Nations Capital.

Club would need some compensation for loss of season ticket revenue, BUT on the other hand the Adelaide component would be a handy way to seed some interest in the game there.

 

[flippikat]

They originally said they would move games to nz

This sounds like they are moving games to qld which is a smart move

They will make way more money and pressure that pro afl chief minister to stop wasting money on afl and sort out the situation for the three teams that need a modern regtangular stadium

Furner is to be applauded

Looks like their home game v Gold Coast will go to Gold Coast and dolphins game to Suncorp

It's a damn shame that the Raiders home game against the Warriors was in Vegas this season - it would've been a slam-dunk to move that to Wellington.

 

[Jpw25111]

Why should the NRL fund it? The NRL, nor the Raiders for that matter own the ground. Its Government owned. As the owner, they are responsible for its upkeep and maintenance, not its tenants, of whom the Raiders are only one.

This is just another example of chromic non-spending over decades by the ACT Government.

Do what the AFL did and build thier own?

 

[It's Been Done]

They originally said they would move games to nz

This sounds like they are moving games to qld which is a smart move

They will make way more money and pressure that pro afl chief minister to stop wasting money on afl and sort out the situation for the three teams that need a modern regtangular stadium

Furner is to be applauded

Looks like their home game v Gold Coast will go to Gold Coast and dolphins game to Suncorp

According to the Raiders, 1 in 10 of their members live in Queensland, so it does make sense to give games to their biggest fan base outside of Canberra and New South Wales

I do remember, however, seeing that the Raiders, together with the Brumbies, were doing a "2 for 1" ticket deal on that weekend Canberra are playing the Dolphins

 

[Diesel]

Just call yourself The Raiders 3 games in Perth 3 games in Adelaide 3 games in Brisbane 3 games in Sydney. Till they build a Stadium befitting the Nations Capital.

Head to Wellington NZ, and play at the capital… or, play in even capital city of each state.

this is what happens when you have an afl loyalist as a chief minister

 

[The Great Dane]

Why should the NRL fund it? The NRL, nor the Raiders for that matter own the ground. Its Government owned. As the owner, they are responsible for its upkeep and maintenance, not its tenants, of whom the Raiders are only one.

This is just another example of chromic non-spending over decades by the ACT Government.

The ACT government doesn't own GIO. It's owned by the Australian Sports Commission along with all the rest of the AIS. The AIS has been left to rot by all Federal governments since the 90s, and if it wasn't for the ACT government paying for upgrades and maintenance GIO would still be a run down oval with a running track around it.

Yes you read that right; ACT ratepayers have effectively been locked in to paying for expansion and upkeep of a major asset they don't own for 35+ years. This is exclusively because of rampant mismanagement of the Federal government's assets in the ACT, largely fuelled by the fact that support for Federal investment into the ACT doesn't win votes. Truth be told it's political suicide in most electorates, especially conservative and the most lefty ones.

So we (Canberra) are stuck in a catch-22. The ACT government aren't really in a position to build a new stadium without Federal assistance that hasn't been forthcoming. They can't sell the land the old one is on to help fund new development because they don't own it and the Federal government refuses to sell it to them. If they don't sink tens of millions of dollars a decade into maintaining the old stadium they lease from the ASC it'll be derelict within a few years. So they can't really win.

Also this idea that the Raiders, and especially NRL, are helpless in this scenario is absolute BS. If anything the NRL and Raiders are as responsible for the current situation as the Territory and Federal government are. Both of them have had many opportunities to positively impact the situation and consistently chosen not to.

Both of them are in positions where they could offer to partner in the construction of a new stadium, like the AFL does, and consistently refused to even consider the option. The Raiders could have been more aggressive in negotiations with both tiers of government in the past, and the NRL have pretty much refused to shown up to those negotiations at all.

 

[The Great Dane]

They originally said they would move games to nz

This sounds like they are moving games to qld which is a smart move

They will make way more money and pressure that pro afl chief minister to stop wasting money on afl and sort out the situation for the three teams that need a modern regtangular stadium

Furner is to be applauded

Looks like their home game v Gold Coast will go to Gold Coast and dolphins game to Suncorp

Furner and the Raiders board are f**king morons who's weakness is largely responsible for the club getting itself into this position in the first place. Chronic nepotism will do that to any organisation.

All taking games away would do is give a free kick to the government, especially when they'll inevitably be some of their highest drawing ones. Why build an expensive new stadium for them when they're just going to sell games to the highest bidders after all?

It's an ineffective half measure, and a massive PR loss in what is effectively a PR war, that puts all their closest supporters offside without actually getting them any closer to their goal. It would also open up a giant opportunity for their competitors to exploit the gap the Raiders leave. Watch the stupid pricks continue to raise membership costs as well lol.

I've said it before, and I'll repeat it ad nauseam if I have to; for years now the only card the Raiders have left if they want a new stadium funded by the taxpayer before 2045 (more likely 2050 at this point, given the delays and cost blowouts of the tram) is a genuine threat of relocation. A real, serious, relocation plan, and a f**k you attitude.

They need to start sounding out the other state governments and NZ (why not) on what they'd offer for the Raiders to relocate permanently, bang out a preliminary deal, then give the ACT government an ultimatum and a deadline, "start construction on a new stadium that meets these minimum specifications, in one of these predetermined locations, before X date, or we've got no choice but to leave".

It's either that, find a way to build a stadium on their own, or STFU and accept Bruce in the state that it's in. Anything else is just spineless pussyfooting about for fear of the public backlash to their decision.

 

[The Great Dane]

It's a damn shame that the Raiders home game against the Warriors was in Vegas this season - it would've been a slam-dunk to move that to Wellington.

The Raiders funding agreement with the ACT government requires them to play 11 home games in Canberra or they sacrifice government funding and support, and there's absolutely no chance that Wellington is offering more for NRL content than Queensland or WA.

I bet that you could even negotiate a better deal out of Victoria after a bit of haggling.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Do what the AFL did and build thier own?

Yes, let the NRL build a stadium used by only one NRL Team. Let it run down its strategic reserves to pay for it

 

[Captain Apollo]

The ACT government doesn't own GIO. It's owned by the Australian Sports Commission along with all the rest of the AIS. The AIS has been left to rot by all Federal governments since the 90s, and if it wasn't for the ACT government paying for upgrades and maintenance GIO would still be a run down oval with a running track around it.

Yes you read that right; ACT ratepayers have effectively been locked in to paying for expansion and upkeep of a major asset they don't own for 35+ years. This is exclusively because of rampant mismanagement of the Federal government's assets in the ACT, largely fuelled by the fact that support for Federal investment into the ACT doesn't win votes. Truth be told it's political suicide in most electorates, especially conservative and the most lefty ones.

So we (Canberra) are stuck in a catch-22. The ACT government aren't really in a position to build a new stadium without Federal assistance that hasn't been forthcoming. They can't sell the land the old one is on to help fund new development because they don't own it and the Federal government refuses to sell it to them. If they don't sink tens of millions of dollars a decade into maintaining the old stadium they lease from the ASC it'll be derelict within a few years. So they can't really win.

Also this idea that the Raiders, and especially NRL, are helpless in this scenario is absolute BS. If anything the NRL and Raiders are as responsible for the current situation as the Territory and Federal government are. Both of them have had many opportunities to positively impact the situation and consistently chosen not to.

Both of them are in positions where they could offer to partner in the construction of a new stadium, like the AFL does, and consistently refused to even consider the option. The Raiders could have been more aggressive in negotiations with both tiers of government in the past, and the NRL have pretty much refused to shown up to those negotiations at all.

My mistake then. Thanks for the info

In that case, it represents chronic underspend on maintenance and upkeep by the Federal authorities. That is one of the things rental income is supposed to be used for.

 

[Wb1234]

Furner and the Raiders board are f**king morons who's weakness is largely responsible for the club getting itself into this position in the first place. Chronic nepotism will do that to any organisation.

All taking games away would do is give a free kick to the government, especially when they'll inevitably be some of their highest drawing ones. Why build an expensive new stadium for them when they're just going to sell games to the highest bidders after all?

It's an ineffective half measure, and a massive PR loss in what is effectively a PR war, that puts all their closest supporters offside without actually getting them any closer to their goal. It would also open up a giant opportunity for their competitors to exploit the gap the Raiders leave. Watch the stupid pricks continue to raise membership costs as well lol.

I've said it before, and I'll repeat it ad nauseam if I have to; for years now the only card the Raiders have left if they want a new stadium funded by the taxpayer before 2045 (more likely 2050 at this point, given the delays and cost blowouts of the tram) is a genuine threat of relocation. A real, serious, relocation plan, and a f**k you attitude.

They need to start sounding out the other state governments and NZ (why not) on what they'd offer for the Raiders to relocate permanently, bang out a preliminary deal, then give the ACT government an ultimatum and a deadline, "start construction on a new stadium that meets these minimum specifications, in one of these predetermined locations, before X date, or we've got no choice but to leave".

It's either that, find a way to build a stadium on their own, or STFU and accept Bruce in the state that it's in. Anything else is just spineless pussyfooting about for fear of the public backlash to their decision.

The only viable relocation places are central coast Adelaide chch or Wellington

Given how much property assets raiders own in Canberra it’s an empty threat

I wonder if they crossed the border and went back to seiffort oval whether the nsw govt would be more amenable to stadium funding but is there even a town centre there that could benefit from tourism

Can’t blame Furner for trying something

I suspect if they have a breakout year and make the too four and get Bruce stadium full a lot that would also help their cause

Doesn’t help the brumbies average around 6k and the womens a league team would be hundreds

 

[mongoose]

Raiders need to work with the NRL and even other teams. Maybe if opposition teams started complaining about the "smell" and even talked about boycotting playing at GIO. The Raiders (and Brumbies) need the media to start making some more noise about it, which might force the governments hand.

 

[The Great Dane]

Yes, let the NRL build a stadium used by only one NRL Team. Let it run down its strategic reserves to pay for it

The Raiders/NRL would be sitting on a fortune now had they bought land in a good spot in Canberra and built a respectable boutique stadium on it in 2014. Land and property values have gone insane over the last ten years.

A stadium in Canberra would have at least 3 full time tenants, possibly more depending on the size and design of the stadium, and that kind of infrastructure would attract large international events that are currently skipping Canberra to go Newcastle, the Gold Coast, Townsville, etc, because of the state of the facilities.

It's funny how these arguments only ever apply to Canberra as well, and never white elephants like Townsville or Penrith that really are single tenant venues.