Grand Final Day NSW Cup v QLD Cup idea

[parrawentyfan]

Apparently the QLD Cup Grand Final got over 9000 people the other day. It looked good in suncorp.

I have heard that the NSW Cup semis got about 6000 also.

Question is. Should the NSW Cup Grand Final be played the week before the NRL GF at somewhere neutral like Leichardt or Parra. This may allow a similar attendance as for the QLD Cup, and 10k in such a ground would look alright on tv. It would also allow people who have followed NSW Cup teams all year to go to the NSW GF without forking out for a NRL final ticket.

I put this in the NRL forum because of what this would allow for NRL GF day, and because I'm interested in the feedback of QLDers, as well as NSW cup followers

Instead of having the NSW Cup GF on NRL GF Day, we could instead have the NSW CUP champ v QLD cup champ, one step closer to the national second tier comp people are looking to for the future. With the ARLC now in place, does anyone think this could be a possibility.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

Yes, definitely. Was just having this conversation a couple hours ago.

The game does exist, I remember seeing a NSW cup v QLD cup game earlier this year.

The idea has merit IMO and would increase the profile of both competitions. NSW cup GF has no place on grand final day as the GF is for the NATIONAL rugby league, not NSWRL.

 

[user_nat]

I don't think the NSW cup final should be on grand final day. The GF tickets are almost entirely sold to NRL fans and not fans of the NSW cup teams, making for a crappy atmosphere. So it would be better for that game to be played elsewhere.

Q cup V NSW cup would be good IMO. State rivalry should at least make it slightly more interesting.

 

[Red Bear]

The inner west rivalry of the NSW Cup today had plenty of interest, foundation clubs going at it in the big game, Balmains last match at senior level, the Jets, the footy club that has managed to thrive at this level. Good game of football as well

 

[parrawentyfan]

QLD Cup Reps v NSW Cup reps is one idea, which could work. but I always find such games a bit meaningless, ie no real passion or connection with the teams.

I was thinking, for example, Newtown v Wynnum-Manly. If (far in the future) the NRL GF is moved around, eg to Brisbane, Melbourne etc, it would make more sense than a NSW cup game.

 

[Big Pete]

Just think there should be a national reserve competition.

NSW Cup doesn't receive any respect. Don't think the standard is that far if at all off of Qld Cup, it just doesn't get shown the same respect.

 

[Red Bear]

Just think there should be a national reserve competition.

NSW Cup doesn't receive any respect. Don't think the standard is that far if at all off of Qld Cup, it just doesn't get shown the same respect.

I reckon that has more to do with the 20's comp effectively being reserve grade, which is poor from a player development point of view as well as sideling the NSW Cup out of the public eye a bit

 

[parrawentyfan]

How do Qlders find having a stand-alone GF from a fan point of view? The inner-west rivalry was great today - i used to live there so can relate. imagine that game in front of 10,000 at Parra or Kogarah, with the grandstand split down the middle like the ANZ prelims. A few thousand orange tigers fans on one side of halfway, and the blue Newtown fans on the other. Would be a real selling point for NSW cup.

Also from the club side - Do the QLD Cup teams get to sell merchandise etc at suncorp? I can't imagine the NSW cp teams get a merch stand at the NRL GF.

 

[Big Pete]

There certainly seemed to be a lot of team colours at Suncorp each year. Never actually been to a Q Cup grand final (one year I had tickets it was held at Sunshine Coast and didn't include any of the teams I support) so can't comment on the merch situation.

RB - NYC has definitely hurt NSW Cup's perception but coverage has been a problem since I can remember.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

I reckon that has more to do with the 20's comp effectively being reserve grade, which is poor from a player development point of view as well as sideling the NSW Cup out of the public eye a bit

This.

And its a joke, I don't understand how U20's can be a higher level than seasoned A grade vets in the NSW and QLD cup.

The standard goes NRL - NSW/QLD cup - NYC.

It shits me how the NRL has pretty much shunned the NSW and QLD cup comps for the NYC.

It needs to go back to the day when the match day experience had Jersey Flegg followed by Reserves followed by First Grade.

 

[Smiley]

Already in the works.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2012/09/25/438667_gold-coast-titans.html

Push for Origin-style match on final day

QUEENSLAND Rugby League officials will push to be included in the biggest day on the sport's calendar -- the NRL grand final.

Talks have taken place for the Queensland Cup winner to play the NSW Cup victor in a second-tier championship match on grand final day.

While a formal proposal has not yet been put to the ARL Commission, Intrust Super Cup (Queensland Cup) competition manager Jamie O'Connor said preliminary talks on a national approach to second-tier football had been held.

"One of the items that's been raised is the NSW Cup winner playing the Intrust Super Cup winner on national grand final day," O'Connor said. "There's a lot of people that support it, we certainly support it from a Queensland Rugby League perspective, we'd love to see that take place."

But O'Connor said any crossover should not diminish the identity of the Queensland Cup.

With 12 teams from Cairns to Tweed Heads, the QRL is not pushing for its successful competition to be replaced by a national second-tier competition.

"We're very conscious we don't lose our identity of what the Cup is. It's got a lot of tradition around it," O'Connor said.

"We'd probably be opposed to a whole of national second-tier competition if it meant the loss of the Queensland Rugby League's marquee state-wide comp.

"I think we'd be quite a while away, if we were to, at all, ever go to a national second-tier competition.

"If we could get the national grand final day with the two (state) Cup winners filtering through, I don't think there'd be any reason why we'd need to go to a national second-tier competition."

While just over 100,000 people tuned in to Channel 9 Brisbane's grand final telecast to watch Wynnum Manly beat Redcliffe in front of a crowd of almost 10,000 at Suncorp Stadium to lift the Cup on Sunday, NSW Cup finalists Newtown and Balmain will meet in a curtain-raiser to the NRL final this weekend.

But O'Connor hopes Queensland will also have a guaranteed place at the table in the future.

"If we're serious about having the Commission come in and we're after true independence and we're looking for a national grand final day in a National Rugby League ... it would make sense that you have a national second-tier competition that was equally represented on grand final day," O'Connor said.

"That would be a fantastic result for us. To go in off the back of what happened at Suncorp Stadium (at the weekend) and have Wynnum to go forward as our premiers to challenge the NSW premiers down there, I think would be a real shot in the arm for football."

 

[Stagger Lee]

I'm all for making the NSW cup into a more respected competition. To see Newtown, Wests, Illawarra, Norths and all on a separate weekend (or the day before - fluck the AFL) is a game I would always try to go too.

However won't making the Queensland Cup winner to play the NSW Cup winner just make the NSW cup final a semi final?

 

[docbrown]

Week 1 - during NRL quarter finals -
Tonga GF Winner vs Samoa GF Winner
WA GF Winner vs NT GF Winner
SA GF Winner vs VIC GF Winner
NSW Cup Grand Final
QLD Cup Grand Final
NZ Origin Grand Final
PNG Cup Grand Final
Fiji Cup Grand Final

Random draw to seed the final 8

Week 2 - during NRL semi finals -
4 knockout games between the 8 teams (4 Australian teams [NSW,QLD+2others], 1 NZ, 1 PNG, 1 Fiji, 1 Samoa/Tonga)

Week 3 - during NRL preliminary final
2 knockout games between the 4 remaining teams

Week 4 - NRL Grand Final Day
1:30pm - Under 20s Grand Final
4:00pm - Challenge Cup (State) Grand Final
7:00pm - NRL Grand Final

 

[El Diablo]

https://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/change-the-nsw-cup-grand-final-to-a-nswrl-vs-qrl-game#share

 

[thommo4pm]

Week 1 - during NRL quarter finals -
Tonga GF Winner vs Samoa GF Winner
WA GF Winner vs NT GF Winner
SA GF Winner vs VIC GF Winner
NSW Cup Grand Final
QLD Cup Grand Final
NZ Origin Grand Final
PNG Cup Grand Final
Fiji Cup Grand Final

Random draw to seed the final 8

Week 2 - during NRL semi finals -
4 knockout games between the 8 teams (4 Australian teams [NSW,QLD+2others], 1 NZ, 1 PNG, 1 Fiji, 1 Samoa/Tonga)

Week 3 - during NRL preliminary final
2 knockout games between the 4 remaining teams

Week 4 - NRL Grand Final Day
1:30pm - Under 20s Grand Final
4:00pm - Challenge Cup (State) Grand Final
7:00pm - NRL Grand Final

That seems sensational, just can't ever see it getting off the ground though.
I personally would love to see it.

 

[Perth Red]

Week 1 - during NRL quarter finals -
Tonga GF Winner vs Samoa GF Winner
WA GF Winner vs NT GF Winner
SA GF Winner vs VIC GF Winner
NSW Cup Grand Final
QLD Cup Grand Final
NZ Origin Grand Final
PNG Cup Grand Final
Fiji Cup Grand Final

Random draw to seed the final 8

Week 2 - during NRL semi finals -
4 knockout games between the 8 teams (4 Australian teams [NSW,QLD+2others], 1 NZ, 1 PNG, 1 Fiji, 1 Samoa/Tonga)

Week 3 - during NRL preliminary final
2 knockout games between the 4 remaining teams

Week 4 - NRL Grand Final Day
1:30pm - Under 20s Grand Final
4:00pm - Challenge Cup (State) Grand Final
7:00pm - NRL Grand Final

Would need to seed it on strength and geography I'd say. Maybe give the weaker teams the home advantage as well. The Harvey Norman Challenge Cup has a nice ring to it!

What's the strength of the club scene like in Samoa, tonga and Fiji? Nsw, q'lnd, NZ and png would obviously be the big 4.

We are sending a affiliated states rep side for a two match test series to Tonga so it's not out of the question to see it happen.
http://www.sportingpulse.com/club_i...ID=20657&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=19691702

 

[docbrown]

That seems sensational, just can't ever see it getting off the ground though.
I personally would love to see it.

Back in 2004 I pitched some CRL managers the idea of a NSWRL Cup Winner playing the QRL Cup Winner on NRL Grand Final day. That way a Queensland audience would always have interest and it boosts the profiles of both comps. I'm glad to see people finally getting behind the concept.

That said I think it's just the first stepping stone to the kind of tournament I'm now promoting. If we're seriously about New Zealand & PNG being elevated (at least) to the standard of NSW & QLD then this is how to make it happen.

It also means all those individual state/national comps can be grouped together under the one tournament name and treated as separate conferences in the one league. It is akin to having a 2nd tier national comp with out the expense. I would even go further and group the NSWRL & QRL teams into local divisions and make clear links between the NRL teams and this state conference reserve grade comp.

For example (keeping in mind some are new teams/resurrected teams):

NRL
Country Division: Canberra, Central Coast, Newcastle, St George Illawarra
East Division: Cronulla, Manly Warringah, South Sydney, Sydney City
North Division: Brisbane, Gold Coast, North Queensland, South Queensland
South Division: Melbourne, Warriors, New Zealand Rams, West Coast
West Division: Canterbury, Parramatta, Penrith, Wests

NSW
Country Southern: Riverina, South Capitals, Central West, Illawarra
Country Northern: North Coast, New England, Newcastle, Central Coast
Metro Northern: North Sydney, Manly Warringah, Balmain, Newtown
Metro Southern: Cronulla, St George, Eastern Suburbs, South Sydney
Metro Western: Parramatta-Cumberland, Canterbury-Bankstown, Blacktown, Western Suburbs

QLD
Eastern: Easts, Diehards, Norths, Redcliffe, Sunshine Coast, Wynnum-Manly
Southern: Burleigh, Tweed Heads, Ipswich, Souths Logan, Toowoomba, Wests
Northern: Bundaberg, Cairns, Darwin, Rockhampton, Mackay, Townsville

NZ
Keep the seperate regional comps but have the winners of each playoff (Auckland, Hamilton, Wellington, Southern winners) to pick the winner to playoff in this comp

So feeders would be:
Broncos = North/East Brisbane QRL teams
Raiders = Riverina, South
Bulldogs = Canterbury-Bankstown
Bears = North Sydney, Central Coast
Sharks = Cronulla Sutherland
Titans = Burleigh, Tweed Heads, North Coast
Sea Eagles = Many Warringah
Storm = VRL competition
Knights = Newcastle Rebels, New England
Warriors = Auckland, Northland, Counties teams
NZ2 = Rest of NZ teams
Cowboys = North/Central QRL teams
Eels = Parramatta-Cumberland
Panthers = Blacktown, Central West
South Qld = South/West Brisbane QRL teams
Rabbitohs = Newtown, South Sydney
Dragons = St George, Steelers
Roosters = Eastern Suburbs
Pirates = WARL & SARL competitions
Tigers = Balmain-Ryde, Western Suburbs

 

[docbrown]

Would need to seed it on strength and geography I'd say. Maybe give the weaker teams the home advantage as well. The Harvey Norman Challenge Cup has a nice ring to it!

What's the strength of the club scene like in Samoa, tonga and Fiji? Nsw, q'lnd, NZ and png would obviously be the big 4.

We are sending a affiliated states rep side for a two match test series to Tonga so it's not out of the question to see it happen.
http://www.sportingpulse.com/club_i...ID=20657&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=19691702

I mean obviously there's a bit of tweaking involved but you'd want NSW, QLD, NZ & potentially PNG to come into it as late as possible, hence the format I suggested.

But I mean it can be worked other ways to seed teams up or down, just like how the UK challenge cup works.

The idea would be to keep travel costs to a minimum, hence play a qualifying Pacific Nation round & Affiliated State round.

 

[00digger00]

Good idea, but it would be a big ask to pick yourself up for another game after winning a GF.

 

[flamin]

Definitely NSW Cup v QLD Cup. The NSW and QLD Cups are already turning into a Northern and Southern division with teams from Perth, NZ and PNG playing in recent years. It's the best way forward IMO to create a 2nd division with teams all over Australasia.