Hand-Check Rule

[Ridders]

Again, this is comes down to my frustration at the lack of any NBA action in my life.

Quite simply, what is your opinion on the hand-check rule?

Personally, the Hand Check is probably the greatest bane in my current NBA experience. True Centre's (Not Mehmet Okur) could eventually become marginalized due to the way the game is leaning towards penetrating guards. Obviously the Shaq's, Duncan's and Howard's will always remain, but imo overall the centre position is one that is changing.

The rule will probably never be changed as its the D-Wade's, Lebron's and Kobe's that people come to see, so anything that enables them to ply their trade will be considered beneficial to the league.

 

[Tiger Hawk]

All I know is Michael Jordan (circa 1986-93) would average over 40 a game if he played in today's NBA. Absolutely no doubt in my mind.

 

[Ridders]

No doubt he could average 40, if he really wanted to. You could say the same thing about Lebron as well. If he can add a reliable post game, as well as a reliable pull up jump shot, theres no limit as to what he could average. Probably never would as by nature the guy likes to get team-mates involved.

 

[The Dodger]

heres my two cents.

I used to religously watch the NBA when i was young growing up through the late 80's to early 90's and back then, the hand check was aloud.

dennis rodman is one of the best defenders of all time, he used to hand check every chance he got, players running through the key, posting up, holding up screens.

he always had one hand on a player, it used to frustrate the hell out of teams when playing against him.

every time the bulls played the pistons, dennis was always on jordon.

larry bird used to manipulate his oposition with the hand check. he would confuse them by making them think he is running up on one side, when turning around the other way, he would be right up in their faces.

once i got out of school and started working, i didn't really watch it as much.

now i have started following it again for the last couple of years, and can notice the difference.

the hand check, i can understand why they would get rid of it because it does slow the play down alot, it has also become a game where the big and tall don't dominate anymore, the smaller and more athletic players are starting to dominate the game more and more these days.


one rule i don't like is the two step rule (or three step rule, would ever you call it), when running off a pass or making a break, your somehow now aloud to take three steps if you time it properly.

im not sure but from what i have seen, you catch the ball mid air, land and then take another two steps before making the shot.

i find this rule very frustrating, sitting on my couch, screaming out travel to my tv screen.

 

[Tiger Hawk]

Lebron doesn't have the mid-range game that Jordan has (or Kobe currently has) so I don't think Lebron currently could (not to mention he's never averaged higher than 31 ppg with the benefit of the hand-check rule). If he developed a mid-range game, and yes a post game as well, he probably could average close to 40.

But for that period I mentioned, Jordan averaged over 33 ppg, with a top of 37 (in his third pro season), when perimeter defence was a lot tougher. Transport that Jordan into the current NBA and he averages over 40. Easily.

Send Kobe, Lebron, Dwyane et al back 20 years and they aren't averaging over 30 a game.

 

[Ridders]

In that 37ppg season that you mentioned, MJ took over 27 shots a game. If your taking that many shots, you should score plenty of points. Back to the main topic, i won't argue that defenses were tougher in the 80s, although i do believe that things began to soften during the mid to late 90s. Not to mention that the whole zone defense concept came into vogue this decade, which when executed well, is a good way of limiting penetrating guards.

In regards to Kobe, Lebron and Wade in an 80's scenario, i'm obviously biased on this but i still believe Kobe could have been a great scorer back then. The premise i use is the fact Kobe's offensive game is about as complete as it can be. At his prime, Kobe could score on you in any way, whether than meant working in the post, getting to the rim or pull up j's. Dead set, Kobe hasn't seriously tried to get to the rim in games for 2 years, the majority of his offense has been based on contested jumpers.

Obviously Kobe wouldn't have been able to get to the rim as much in an 80s scenario, a point i will concede. I'm not saying he would have gotten close to Jordan's level of scoring, but i still think he would have been an elite scorer. Alas thats only my opinion, which is admittedly skewered.

*Cue "f**king lakers fans" jibe*

 

[Tiger Hawk]

Hang on a sec, I never said Kobe (or the others) wouldn't be great scorers. Kobe is (and would have been) a terrific scorer. But back then there were plenty of terrific scorers around (Gervin, King, Dantley), none of whom ever scaled the same heights as Jordan, and certainly never did for such a long period. I think current players would be terrific scorers back then, don't get me wrong, but looking at the history books during that period, perimeter players just weren't averaging (consistently) over 30 a game.

And, by-the-by, when Kobe averaged 35 a few years back, with the benefit of playing with the current rules, he also took 27 shots. And Kobe's stopped driving because he can't anymore. He's a 13 year NBA veteran now, an old 31 year old. He HAD to spend time developing other ways to score otherwise his decline would have been a lot quicker.

f**king lakers fans!!

 

[Ridders]

Yeah i wasn't suggesting that Kobe stopped going to the rim by choice. Case in point was the 2008 NBA Finals as one of the main reasons to the Celtics winning was their ability to expose Kobe's inability to get to the rim at will. Jordan's ppg were great, but imo whats even more impressive is his FG%, especially for a 2-guard.

I'm obviously not as qualified to speak on this, as i've never seen Gervin play, but from what i've read, Gervin was a great scorer, but wasn't a standout in anything else (correct me if i'm wrong). I think one of the main things with this generation of players is that alot of them have tried to mould themselves into Jordan clones, meaning they've tried to hone their all-round skill, whether it be scoring, rebounding, assisting, or lock-down defense.

Again i'm not totally qualified to speak on this but i'm going to take a guess that most of the great scorers of the 70s & 80s were not as well-rounded as Jordan simply because there was no precedent. Before Jordan came along, i don't think there were any guards or swingmen who could do everything like he could.

In contrast, just scoring for great perimeter players now days isn't enough, they have to facilitate, rebound at a decent rate and be great defenders, in other words the Jordan class. Just my opinion but a by-product of Jordan is that all the great perimeter scorers coming into the league are more well-rounded than the great scorers of yester-year simply because Jordan set the bar at a level that it's never previously been.

 

[owend21]

All I know is Michael Jordan (circa 1986-93) would average over 40 a game if he played in today's NBA. Absolutely no doubt in my mind.

very true....