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Has expansion actually brought in any more money?

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4,051
It will be interesting to see what affect the Dolphins will have on the Bronco's as far as crowd/supporter numbers and sponsors go - how many supporters/sponsors will switch to the Dolphins.

It may not happen straight away and may take some time to occur depending how quickly the Dolphins can be a competitive club.
Nick Livermore, CEO of the Bombers and later co-CEO of the Jets bid talked a lot about RL missing out on sponsorship dollars in Brisbane because the lack of a second option. Kings, their major sponsor is unique to RL and sport in Australia from what I can see so a good start.
 
Messages
4,051
I dont see any evidence that this is the case. if you're theory is correct then having nine NRL clubs in Sydney should mean that the AFL has virtually zero presence there, but that is not the case. Different people will follow different sports for a whole variety of reasons. RL seems to struggle to grasp this concept, hence why it continues to stagnate and not develop itself in new markets that it sees as rusted on to other sports.
I see evidence of it in the AFL where having two teams in Adelaide and Perth has absolutely grown the code in those cities. There is no reason why this won't happen for RL in its heartland in Brisbane also.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,778
I see evidence of it in the AFL where having two teams in Adelaide and Perth has absolutely grown the code in those cities. There is no reason why this won't happen for RL in its heartland in Brisbane also.
That wasnt the argument, it was put forward that if Brisbane had more NRL clubs AFL would fail. I see no evidence that is the case in Sydney as the most obvious example, or Melbourne if you look at the success and growth of the Storm in a city full of AFL clubs.

But yes a second Brisbane club should hopefully drive the popularity of the NRL in Brisbane.
 
Messages
4,051
That wasnt the argument, it was put forward that if Brisbane had more NRL clubs AFL would fail. I see no evidence that is the case in Sydney as the most obvious example, or Melbourne if you look at the success and growth of the Storm in a city full of AFL clubs.

But yes a second Brisbane club should hopefully drive the popularity of the NRL in Brisbane.
Yeah fair enough, I do think that two NRL clubs does impact the AFL's ability to add more clubs to the Brisbane market and a third (if it happens down the track even more so). Cities the size of Brisbane and Perth can only sustain so many clubs and if the NRL max out that number with it's clubs then it makes it difficult for their rivals. I see your point though, it doesn't make it impossible and certainly doesn't stop them from carving out a niche like we will hopefully be looking to do in Perth ourselves.
 
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12,505
The Titans haven't been a success on or off the field but you really can't distance the blame from the club completely, they've made some terrible big name signings over the years, the only time they got it right was at the start
I only brought the Titans into the discussion because the Donkey kept going on about Sydney clubs having to be helped out by the NRL. First he/she refused to acknowledge this fact, then has just kept making excuses for them.
His/hers hypocrisy and bias towards Qld has brought this discussion this way.
 
Messages
6,018
Yeah fair enough, I do think that two NRL clubs does impact the AFL's ability to add more clubs to the Brisbane market and a third (if it happens down the track even more so). Cities the size of Brisbane and Perth can only sustain so many clubs and if the NRL max out that number with it's clubs then it makes it difficult for their rivals. I see your point though, it doesn't make it impossible and certainly doesn't stop them from carving out a niche like we will hopefully be looking to do in Perth ourselves.
An NRL club in the southern part of Brisbane would really hurt the Lions. Lions would struggle somewhat if they had to contend with the Firehawks as both clubs cover the same geographical area.

If the ARLC really wants to take the fight to AwFuL then they'll add the West Coast Pirates after COVID-19 is gone and announce a plan for Brisbane Firehawks to be brought in by 2035 alongside NZ 2. We need to get a team into Perth before AwFuL adds a third to that market.
 
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6,018
I only brought the Titans into the discussion because the Donkey kept going on about Sydney clubs having to be helped out by the NRL. First he/she refused to acknowledge this fact, then has just kept making excuses for them.
His/hers hypocrisy and bias towards Qld has brought this discussion this way.
If the Titans are a basketcase like the Sharks after 25 years then you will have a point. They were always going to struggle, just like the four expansion teams from 1995. The ARLC threw them into the deep end before they could swim. Throw in the GFC and no Leagues Club and they had no chance.

Expansion teams require investment. Melbourne Storm got $90m to $100m over 20 years to build a strong foundation and now they're financially viable and an asset to the NRL. You can ignore this all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that expansion clubs who've been given assistance at the start ended up becoming self-sufficient, whereas the Sharks have often been on the verge of bankruptcy for decades.

We all know the reason expansion clubs rarely get the assistance they need to build the foundation of a self-sufficient business. Insularity from the other clubs, most of whom are from Sydney. We had Manly demanding Redcliffe give money to the other clubs.
 
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Messages
12,505
If the Titans are a basketcase like the Sharks after 25 years then you will have a point. They were always going to struggle, just like the four expansion teams from 1995. The ARLC threw them into the deep end before they could swim. Throw in the GFC and no Leagues Club and they had no chance.

Expansion teams require investment. Melbourne Storm got $90m to $100m over 20 years to build a strong foundation and now they're financially viable and an asset to the NRL. You can ignore this all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that expansion clubs who've been given assistance at the start ended up becoming self-sufficient, whereas the Sharks have often been on the verge of bankruptcy for decades.

We all know the reason expansion clubs rarely get the assistance they need to build the foundation of a self-sufficient business. Insularity from the other clubs, most of whom are from Sydney. We had Manly demanding Redcliffe give money to the other clubs.
If, if, if, but, but ,but when have PVL considering the Sutherland Shire as an asset, just like the Gold Coast, it is different, oh thats right, because the GC is in QUEENSLAND!!!
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,778
An NRL club in the southern part of Brisbane would really hurt the Lions. Lions would struggle somewhat if they had to contend with the Firehawks as both clubs cover the same geographical area.

If the ARLC really wants to take the fight to AwFuL then they'll add the West Coast Pirates after COVID-19 is gone and announce a plan for Brisbane Firehawks to be brought in by 2035 alongside NZ 2. We need to get a team into Perth before AwFuL adds a third to that market.
Again it really wouldnt, people arent choosing between AFL and NRL becasue there is only 1 NRL club to follow currently, they either follow both or one depending on which they like. If they wanted to watch NRL there is a club playing at a great stadium they could follow now, and soon to be two options. Nine clubs in Sydney hasnt stopped the Swans becoming huge or the admission of the Giants. Nine clubs in Melbourne hasnt stopped the Storm gaining a strong following. There's room for both and always will be however many clubs are in the market.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,778
NRL's socialism is a real stupid philosophy. All are not equal, new clubs cant be expected to be as strong as 100 year old clubs. Clubs in small markets arent going to have the resources of clubs in large markets, clubs without pokies arent going to have the same resources as clubs with pokie empires. Yet the NRL wants to treat them all the same.
Sounds great in practice, is a disaster in reality.

Dolphins should have been given cap concessions to build a quality roster from day one, with a key emphasis on signing players from outside the current NRL rosters, instead they have been given a year to try and build a squad with the same money as everyone else and are targetting players that will weaken other clubs, one of them being the only genuine expansion club the NRL has! Its like we don't want new clubs to succeed!
 
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6,018
If, if, if, but, but ,but when have PVL considering the Sutherland Shire as an asset, just like the Gold Coast, it is different, oh thats right, because the GC is in QUEENSLAND!!!
Sutherland isn't an asset to the game. Sharks are one of the least watched clubs on Pay TV and FTA.

What value do the Sharks provide to the broadcasters when they're routinely one of the least watched clubs?

Sharks have a small fanbase and draw lowish crowds at a terrible ground in a region of just 230k people.

Gold Coast has over 600k and is growing.

Most companies don't want to be associated with the Sharks due to their limited fanbase and the scandals that have plagued the club.

Queensland Government built a state of the art boutique stadium for Gold Coast Titans. Sharks play out of a dilapidated ground.

You won't like hearing it, but Gold Coast have been financially viable since the ARLC sold their licence to Frizelle and Kelly. Sharks are still reliant on their Leagues Club.
 
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6,018
Again it really wouldnt, people arent choosing between AFL and NRL becasue there is only 1 NRL club to follow currently, they either follow both or one depending on which they like. If they wanted to watch NRL there is a club playing at a great stadium they could follow now, and soon to be two options. Nine clubs in Sydney hasnt stopped the Swans becoming huge or the admission of the Giants. Nine clubs in Melbourne hasnt stopped the Storm gaining a strong following. There's room for both and always will be however many clubs are in the market.
The Lions @ Springwood Social Club rakes in millions of dollars for the Brisbane Lions through gaming revenue. Much of it is transferred to the Brisbane Lions Football Department to cover its losses. If the Firehawks enter the NRL and put a Leagues Club in Logan then that will really hurt the Lions.

Springwood, Rochedale South and Rochedale are experiencing a lot of development at the moment. The Greater Springwood Masterplan has drawn major businesses and property investors to the CBD, with the Springwood Busway being a major part of it. A similar busway is under construction in Rochedale and much of the land there is under development. It would be the ideal place for Easts Tigers to establish a second Leagues Club for the Firehawks.

There are plenty of pokie dens just across the road from the Lions @ Springwood. There's the Springwood Hotel and Springwood Feast less than 150m away. If Easts Tigers were to buy up these establishments then they could really throw a spanner in the works for the Brisbane Lions, as both businesses are closer to the Springwood Bus Station and are easier to access and more visible because they're on Rochedale Rd.
 
Messages
12,505
Sutherland isn't an asset to the game. Sharks are one of the least watched clubs on Pay TV and FTA.

What value do the Sharks provide to the broadcasters when they're routinely one of the least watched clubs?

Sharks have a small fanbase and draw lowish crowds at a terrible ground in a region of just 230k people.

Gold Coast has over 600k and is growing.

Most companies don't want to be associated with the Sharks due to their limited fanbase and the scandals that have plagued the club.

Queensland Government built a state of the art boutique stadium for Gold Coast Titans. Sharks play out of a dilapidated ground.

You won't like hearing it, but Gold Coast have been financially viable since the ARLC sold their licence to Frizelle and Kelly. Sharks are still reliant on their Leagues Club.
QUEENSLANDER!!
The fact still stands, in recent times a Queensland club needed to be bailed out by the NRL, not a Sydney club.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,778
The Lions @ Springwood Social Club rakes in millions of dollars for the Brisbane Lions through gaming revenue. Much of it is transferred to the Brisbane Lions Football Department to cover its losses. If the Firehawks enter the NRL and put a Leagues Club in Logan then that will really hurt the Lions.

Springwood, Rochedale South and Rochedale are experiencing a lot of development at the moment. The Greater Springwood Masterplan has drawn major businesses and property investors to the CBD, with the Springwood Busway being a major part of it. A similar busway is under construction in Rochedale and much of the land there is under development. It would be the ideal place for Easts Tigers to establish a second Leagues Club for the Firehawks.

There are plenty of pokie dens just across the road from the Lions @ Springwood. There's the Springwood Hotel and Springwood Feast less than 150m away. If Easts Tigers were to buy up these establishments then they could really throw a spanner in the works for the Brisbane Lions, as both businesses are closer to the Springwood Bus Station and are easier to access and more visible because they're on Rochedale Rd.
hang on, if there's already pokie options other than the Lions club in the same neighborhood then how is someone else taking them over going to change anything? People dont go to pokie clubs because they support the professional sports club they are feeding money to, they go because the food is cheap and they can pss away their money. Then whose to say these clubs would want to sell up to the Tigers? Presumably if they are profitable they'll be quite happy continuing to take in the poor gambling saps money infinitum. As far as I have seen the tigers have no plans to expand into Springwood area and no plans for a second LC.

I'm not saying Brisbane shouldn't get a third club ever, but lets wait and see how the second one does and lets get the rest of the games top tier footprint sorted out before even considering it. When you have a city of 2.2million people with no club then putting a third one in a city of 2.5million seems somewhat wasteful.
 
Messages
6,018
hang on, if there's already pokie options other than the Lions club in the same neighborhood then how is someone else taking them over going to change anything? People dont go to pokie clubs because they support the professional sports club they are feeding money to, they go because the food is cheap and they can pss away their money. Then whose to say these clubs would want to sell up to the Tigers? Presumably if they are profitable they'll be quite happy continuing to take in the poor gambling saps money infinitum. As far as I have seen the tigers have no plans to expand into Springwood area and no plans for a second LC.

I'm not saying Brisbane shouldn't get a third club ever, but lets wait and see how the second one does and lets get the rest of the games top tier footprint sorted out before even considering it. When you have a city of 2.2million people with no club then putting a third one in a city of 2.5million seems somewhat wasteful.
Easts Tigers already have junior clubs in Logan. They've got the Rochedale Tigers and Springwood Tigers in the northeast and Flagstone Tigers in the southeast. They also plan on building the Yarrabilba Tigers in the southeast.

Springwood Feast is very popular amongst Logan's Polynesian population. If it came under the ownership of the Easts Tigers and put money back into the Rochedale Tigers and Springwood Tigers then I'd imagine quite a few people in Logan would choose it over the Lions @ Springwood Social Club. It would be great public relations for the Tigers and help them gain a stronger following in Logan. Even if they never get an NRL licence it would be great for them to develop a stronger foothold in this region.
 

Ozzi_78

Bench
Messages
3,685
Sutherland isn't an asset to the game. Sharks are one of the least watched clubs on Pay TV and FTA.

What value do the Sharks provide to the broadcasters when they're routinely one of the least watched clubs?

Sharks have a small fanbase and draw lowish crowds at a terrible ground in a region of just 230k people.

Gold Coast has over 600k and is growing.

Most companies don't want to be associated with the Sharks due to their limited fanbase and the scandals that have plagued the club.

Queensland Government built a state of the art boutique stadium for Gold Coast Titans. Sharks play out of a dilapidated ground.

You won't like hearing it, but Gold Coast have been financially viable since the ARLC sold their licence to Frizelle and Kelly. Sharks are still reliant on their Leagues Club.
Hahahahah. Hurts a lot.
 
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