How the f**k is this possible!?!?!?

[timmybrown]

I think the daily telegraph reporters are on crack... How come this info always comes from that lot?

 

[Elephant Hunter]

Combined they'd be worth $250-300k, that's 3/4 of Gasniers reported salary for 2011. If we sign Gasnier, Scott will move to the second row and I'd say Costigan will be moved on next year. That'd be another $120-160k gone.

We also lost Poore without really replacing him. Jeremy Smith may move on in 2012.

We have plenty of players off contract next year.

But you have to replace all these players you are talking about letting go. So you have listed 4 or 5 players you are going to let go. But each player has to be replaced in the top 25 with a minimum of $55,000

So you may free up 250 - 300K by removing two of them but you can only use 195-245K of that money on Gaz as 55,000 has to go on someone else

So shelling players to sign a big name is not so easy to do.

 

[Firey_Dragon]

So do you they think they are over the cap or not?Every team has a select few players who make up a bulk of the cap... what exactly is your point?

I could easily see a team like the Roosters fitting Gasnier in under the cap, especially seeing as he appears to be willing to play for very little money.

No I don't think they're over the cap, but I do think they're very close to it, just like most teams in this comp. The Roosters choose to sign a few big names and it results in an unbalanced side, but it still fills the cap nevertheless.

 

[Firey_Dragon]

But you have to replace all these players you are talking about letting go. So you have listed 4 or 5 players you are going to let go. But each player has to be replaced in the top 25 with a minimum of $55,000

So you may free up 250 - 300K by removing two of them but you can only use 195-245K of that money on Gaz as 55,000 has to go on someone else

So shelling players to sign a big name is not so easy to do.

We have 5 or 6 U20's players on the cusp of making the top 25. None of their salaries would come close to those that could be released. We have alot of depth, the way we play also makes it easy for those players to make the transition into first grade.

 

[patzz_]

We offered Poore about 270k before he left, and didn't really replace him, so surely there is alot of money free there?

 

[byrne_rovelli_fan82]

Speculation at this stage let's wait for the outcome

 

[siv]

Seems they have seen the same loop hole that St Merge spotted

Sign Gasnier for $30K in 2010 plus match payments as a second tier player. So as long as you don't breach the Second Tier Cap of $250K its fine

 

[Tin Man 4.24]

Everyone does it. - its rife

Really!? Wow! You better ring David Gallop and let him know.

Assuming of course that you have the proof...

 

[badav]

We offered Poore about 270k before he left, and didn't really replace him, so surely there is alot of money free there?

Wasn't Weyman re-signed earlier this year?

Im not going to pretend i have any inside info on the Dragons salary cap, but one would think that if they had alot of money free from Poore, they wouldn't be offering Mark Gasnier a deal in the 2nd tier of the salary cap worth $50k for this year.

 

[Elephant Hunter]

We have 5 or 6 U20's players on the cusp of making the top 25. None of their salaries would come close to those that could be released. We have alot of depth, the way we play also makes it easy for those players to make the transition into first grade.

It doesn't work that way.

The minimum wage for the top 25 is $55,000 as per the enterprise bargaining agreement reached by the players association.

So any player that is included in the top 25 cap must be on $55,000 or more, so these players will need to have their contracts upgraded.

So my point is still the same every player you chop from the top 25 must have a replacement as per the cap rules. And this is pretty easy for the auditor to check (I am of course assuming Mr Schubert can count to 25 )

 

[Firey_Dragon]

It doesn't work that way.

The minimum wage for the top 25 is $55,000 as per the enterprise bargaining agreement reached by the players association.

So any player that is included in the top 25 cap must be on $55,000 or more, so these players will need to have their contracts upgraded.

So my point is still the same every player you chop from the top 25 must have a replacement as per the cap rules. And this is pretty easy for the auditor to check (I am of course assuming Mr Schubert can count to 25 )

It works exactly as I said it would.

You get rid of a player that is on say $120,000 and sign a junior in the first tier on $55,000 you have a surplus of $65,000 for that player swap. I thought the maths was pretty simple, but it seems to have eluded you.

 

[Elephant Hunter]

Combined they'd be worth $250-300k, that's 3/4 of Gasniers reported salary for 2011. If we sign Gasnier, Scott will move to the second row and I'd say Costigan will be moved on next year. That'd be another $120-160k gone.

We also lost Poore without really replacing him. Jeremy Smith may move on in 2012.

We have plenty of players off contract next year.

So you're thinking is -

Saffy and Priddis were earning between $305k - $355k between them
(that is the freed cap space you quote + one min wage player as Gaz would be the other player in the top 25)


Costigan is earning $175k-215k ?
(again the cap space you quoted plus the min wage player salary)

Because they are the contract values you need them on to get your $370k - 460k free that you claimed.

 

[dclayw]

So you're thinking is -

Saffy and Priddis were earning between $305k - $355k between them
(that is the freed cap space you quote + one min wage player as Gaz would be the other player in the top 25)


Costigan is earning $175k-215k ?
(again the cap space you quoted plus the min wage player salary)

Because they are the contract values you need them on to get your $370k - 460k free that you claimed.

Something along those lines. This is just one simple example, losing say Saffy, Priddis and Costigan and gaining some juniors on minimum wage. That alone could free up the money required for Gasnier. None of us know for sure what these players are on, but those figures quoted are decent estimates and have been arrived at taking into account what the top 25 are likley to be on. The point is that it can easily be done as these figures show. There must also be a bit of money lying around because Poore did not resign with the dragons and was not replaced.

I really don't see what you're getting at mate. Are you wanting a full blown explanation on all the various permutations that could be used to bring Gasnier onboard? Are you suggesting the dragons are going to cheat the cap? What exactly are you after?

 

[Firey_Dragon]

So you're thinking is -

Saffy and Priddis were earning between $305k - $355k between them
(that is the freed cap space you quote + one min wage player as Gaz would be the other player in the top 25)


Costigan is earning $175k-215k ?
(again the cap space you quoted plus the min wage player salary)

Because they are the contract values you need them on to get your $370k - 460k free that you claimed.

Why on earth are you "adding" a minimum contract player with an existing player. Your maths is way off, you should be subtracting.

Lets assume Saffy and Priddis earn $300k (it's probably more likely that it's $250k but I digress) between them, you have Gasnier taking one of the spots and a minimum wage player taking the other. You have $245k to spend on Gasnier from that alone.

Do you have any understanding of fundamental mathematics?

They are just two definite players who will no longer be with us next year, there are still quite a few others that can be cleared over the next 2 years. Obviously alot of this is assuming that these players have not already been accounted for in the cap with contract upgrades on other players next year and whatnot.

 

[Elephant Hunter]

I really don't see what you're getting at mate. Are you wanting a full blown explanation on all the various permutations that could be used to bring Gasnier onboard? Are you suggesting the dragons are going to cheat the cap? What exactly are you after?

The point here was that clearing your cap enough to bring in Gaz will take a lot more than the loss of Saffy and co.

The average wage of a top 25 player is $164,000. Now I doubt any of the players that have been listed so far would be on or above this average considering some of the other quality cattle in the St's squad.

If they want to sign him they are going to loose some real quality players in the next 2 - 3 years and I am not sure he is really worth it now he is heading into his twilight years.

 

[Elephant Hunter]

Do you have any understanding of fundamental mathematics?

I added the $55,000 per player lost - 1 (which is the Gaz money) to the values you claimed would be cleared under the cap.

I read (and I have rechecked to make sure I did not make an error) your posts as being the loss of player X will make Y number of dollars available in the cap.

To make money in the cap you must use:

New Cap Avail = (Current Cap Avail - Xs Salary) + Replacement Player Salary

This menas I took you number of cap available funds and added the min wage to work out the suggested salary of player X

This is a pretty straight forward formula, but than formulas and algebra are not included in fundamental maths so maybe I got it wrong ;-)

 

[Firey_Dragon]

I added the $55,000 per player lost - 1 (which is the Gaz money) to the values you claimed would be cleared under the cap.

I read (and I have rechecked to make sure I did not make an error) your posts as being the loss of player X will make Y number of dollars available in the cap.

To make money in the cap you must use:

New Cap Avail = (Current Cap Avail - Xs Salary) + Replacement Player Salary

This menas I took you number of cap available funds and added the min wage to work out the suggested salary of player X

This is a pretty straight forward formula, but than formulas and algebra are not included in fundamental maths so maybe I got it wrong ;-)

If you've re-checked your calculations, god help our education system. How does (current player + replacement player) = money available, which is what you implied in your first post.

You've stated the correct formula in this post, unfortunately it doesn't exactly match up with the reality of your earlier post. Either way it is irrelevant, I believe we'd need to clear probably 3-4 players to cover the shortfall in 2011 (Priddis, Saffy, Costigan and possibly one other), and another 2 in 2012. If the rumored salaries are correct.

 

[Elephant Hunter]

If you've re-checked your calculations, god help our education system. How does (current player + replacement player) = money available, which is what you implied in your first post.

I didn't say Current Player + Replacement was = to cap space

I said Cap Sapce + Replacement Player = Current Player Salary

You guys state that by losing Priddis and Saffy you will be able to give Gaz $250 - 300K. So What my calculation was pointing out was that would mean between them Saffy and Priddis must be earning i minimum of $305-355K between them

True?

 

[Firey_Dragon]

I didn't say Current Player + Replacement was = to cap space

I said Cap Sapce + Replacement Player = Current Player Salary

You guys state that by losing Priddis and Saffy you will be able to give Gaz $250 - 300K. So What my calculation was pointing out was that would mean between them Saffy and Priddis must be earning i minimum of $305-355K between them

True?

You worded it incredibly poorly. I also said that Saffy and Priddis weren't the only ones who could be leaving our club this year. We have about 8 players off contract. I don't know where you pulled the figure of $300,000 from anyway, it's been reported our offer is $400,000 for next year.