Huddersfield Giants link with Batley Bulldogs.

[JasonE]

http://www.giantsrl.com/news/article/1892/huddersfield-giants-and-batley-bulldogs

I like the sounds of this, it's sounds like a win win situation for both clubs.

 

[deluded pom?]

 

[Evil Homer]

Do you seriously think Batley are going to become a Super League club in the future, or have the potential to be anything more than they are now, regardless of the system? They run off Super League cast-offs, half their players are ex-Huddersfield academy anyway. This is a big boost for them. Get in the real world.

 

[deluded pom?]

I'd sooner inhabit my world than the one you live in where the playing talent pool diminshes year on year as the fantasy land of a fully cashed up SL is proven time after time to be a pipedream with half the clubs involved incapable of being competitive save the odd good season here and there. A world where sugar daddies are a necessity rather than a luxury. But hey let's have the same dross at the bottom year on year until their knight in armour rides over the hill on his white charger to pay the bills needed to simply stay at the wrong end of the league. If we are having dross at the bottom of the table why can't we at least shuffle the dross evry now and again? How long before the size of the league is reduced to increase competiveness and increase the slice of the Sky money needed to compete? How long before they disappear up their own backsides?

 

[langpark]

At least it gives players some extra incentive in a league where there is no longer any....

 

[Jet Black]

I'd sooner inhabit my world than the one you live in where the playing talent pool diminshes year on year as the fantasy land of a fully cashed up SL is proven time after time to be a pipedream with half the clubs involved incapable of being competitive save the odd good season here and there. A world where sugar daddies are a necessity rather than a luxury. But hey let's have the same dross at the bottom year on year until their knight in armour rides over the hill on his white charger to pay the bills needed to simply stay at the wrong end of the league. If we are having dross at the bottom of the table why can't we at least shuffle the dross evry now and again? How long before the size of the league is reduced to increase competiveness and increase the slice of the Sky money needed to compete? How long before they disappear up their own backsides?

So in your world Widnes would be back down this year to be replaced by Sheffield Eagles........who true to form, would have had from October 1st to November 1st to assemble a SL quality team for pre-season....with a few Aussies added after xmas and then proceeded to get tonked for 23 or so of their 27 games and head south again in 2014.....to be replaced, in all probability, by Widnes.

Licencing/franchising isn't perfect, the RFL have proved this with their inept handling of the Welsh farce and more recently, the Bradford Bulls fiasco, but it gives the game a better chance to get a solid footing as a 100% professional sport......a return to P&R is littered with dangers unless there are clear rules and guidelines set in stone with no room for interpretation.......and even then it would need to be policed by an IC........something that will never happen.

 

[Evil Homer]

So in your world Widnes would be back down this year to be replaced by Sheffield Eagles........who true to form, would have had from October 1st to November 1st to assemble a SL quality team for pre-season....with a few Aussies added after xmas and then proceeded to get tonked for 23 or so of their 27 games and head south again in 2014.....to be replaced, in all probability, by Widnes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/19842714

Sheffield are aware that promotion this year would almost certainly have been a huge negative for the club. And that's the Championship side, the ones who allegedly benefited from the old system. It's a shame some fans can't see this.

 

[JasonE]

More importantly, SL clubs are treating this new u/19 competition very seriously unlike the recent under 20's & u18's Academy comps.
They were a joke, poorly run with woeful playing standards.

Huddersfield Giants for example are not normally praised for their youth development but they will have a fantastic Under 19 squad next season and should be very competitive against the usual strong clubs.

They will have about 7 or 8 England youth internationals and at least three SL squad players.

 

[deluded pom?]

So in your world Widnes would be back down this year to be replaced by Sheffield Eagles........who true to form, would have had from October 1st to November 1st to assemble a SL quality team for pre-season....with a few Aussies added after xmas and then proceeded to get tonked for 23 or so of their 27 games and head south again in 2014.....to be replaced, in all probability, by Widnes.

Licencing/franchising isn't perfect, the RFL have proved this with their inept handling of the Welsh farce and more recently, the Bradford Bulls fiasco, but it gives the game a better chance to get a solid footing as a 100% professional sport......a return to P&R is littered with dangers unless there are clear rules and guidelines set in stone with no room for interpretation.......and even then it would need to be policed by an IC........something that will never happen.

So in your world no other team is allowed to have any ambition? In your world current SL clubs flaunt the licence criteria and are offered assistance by the ruling body and the rest of the SL clubs. A clear message that it's in effect a closed shop. These twinning arrangements are simply a way for SL clubs to save a hundred grand a year and dispense with a full junior system. A junior system that Sheffield and Featherstone manage to run without that same hundred grand handout. The SL clubs on the whole can't run their clubs without constantly looking at ways to cut corners. A false economy that will come back to bite the game as a whole in this country. If the current SL clubs were all well run and at least financially sustainable and running a full junior setup then I couldn't argue with you but it's far from that. In fact too many of the clubs are basket cases who are throwing money at the top end instead of investing in the lower end. Ultimately we'll soon be looking for the next quick money saving fix. They need to bring the SC down so that more clubs can compete but unfortunately they've created a situation whereby any decent player on the market won't entertain the likes of Salford or Cas' because they know they'll never compete for any trophies under the present conditions. A return to a twelve team SL is already being mooted. When that fails they'll be looking at a ten team league until the viewing public's boredom threshold is reached and interest in the competition wanes to an unsustainable level.

 

[Evil Homer]

So in your world no other team is allowed to have any ambition?

I'm not sure why you think ambition equates to having to gain promotion via the arbitrary measure of winning a part-time competition. Widnes were promoted this year. Sheffield have said that they will be looking at the possibility of promotion. They want to do it in a way in which they will be able to enter when ready and grow into a strong Super League club rather than going up and being flogged for a year, being relegated straight away, undoing all the good work they have done up to this point and more than likely going bust.

I'm not sure which SL clubs you think don't run a junior system :? but do you honestly think the likes of Sheffield and Featherstone would be investing in youth and the infrastructure of their clubs if they knew they needed to win the competition in order to gain promotion? Equally, how can you say that no decent players will ever sign for Castleford when they have the Man of Steel from two years ago? Or how you think that reintroducing promotion and relegation would possibly do anything other than massively increase the disparity within the league?

A return to a twelve team SL is already being mooted. When that fails they'll be looking at a ten team league until the viewing public's boredom threshold is reached and interest in the competition wanes to an unsustainable level.

Guess we might as well give up now then.

 

[deluded pom?]

Where have I advocated a return to a single year P & R format? Is that the same MoS who is being touted around to other clubs? A good player at a poor club. Aren't we constantly being told that the current system is producing the best crop of young players the British game has seen for years? Yet we are about to abandon it to save a few quid. Fev and Sheffield can manage to run a full junior setup at various age groups without a hundred grand subsidy. Where did I say SL clubs don't run a junior setup? The SL clubs are looking to reduce their junior setups when they should have to run a full junior system as part of their licence criteria. If you bothered to read my previous post properly (a regular failing of yours) you'd see what I actually posted not what you THINK I posted.

 

[Evil Homer]

Where have I advocated a return to a single year P & R format?

What are you advocating then? You've been a constant critic of the license system, I can't see how you could justify that unless you have a suitable alternative.

Is that the same MoS who is being touted around to other clubs? A good player at a poor club.

Regardless, you stated that good players would never sign for poor clubs. Cas have signed Michael Shenton, an England international. They had one bad season, prior to that they were in constant contention for the top 8. FWIW I'm not sure Castleford are a SL club long-term, but there aren't any better options at the moment. You seem to be advocating them being removed and replaced with an inferior club, seemingly for the sake of it. Which again defies logic, at least to me.

Aren't we constantly being told that the current system is producing the best crop of young players the British game has seen for years? Yet we are about to abandon it to save a few quid.

There have been well-documented issues with the U20s competition for years, this isn't a change to the systems that produced the players, it's a change to the way they are able to develop at 20 years old and potentially a positive one, although obviously we'll have to see how it works out in reality.

Fev and Sheffield can manage to run a full junior setup at various age groups without a hundred grand subsidy.

So what? Sheffield also make a yearly profit. You haven't addressed the issue I raised in my post, which is that such clubs would be unable to do so under the previous system, because they were forced to invest solely in their playing squad in order to try and win the division.

Where did I say SL clubs don't run a junior setup?

In your post :?

'If the current SL clubs were all well run and at least financially sustainable and running a full junior setup then I couldn't argue with you but it's far from that'

The SL clubs are looking to reduce their junior setups when they should have to run a full junior system as part of their licence criteria. If you bothered to read my previous post properly (a regular failing of yours) you'd see what I actually posted not what you THINK I posted.

What constitutes a 'full junior setup' to you?

 

[deluded pom?]

In your post :?

'If the current SL clubs were all well run and at least financially sustainable and running a full junior setup then I couldn't argue with you but it's far from that'

Thanks for proving my point about your lack of comprehension of my posts yet again. It should be me pulling the confused face, not you. We'll agree to disagree.

 

[Evil Homer]

Thanks for proving my point about your lack of comprehension of my posts yet again. It should be me pulling the confused face, not you. We'll agree to disagree.

But apart from Catalans all SL clubs ran youth teams at every available level last year from U15s to U20s? Which ones do you think aren't running a 'full junior setup'?

 

[deluded pom?]

Will all of them be running youth teams at every available level in 2013? Or is the "every available level" now reduced to two teams? You know full well that I'm alluding to next year and not the one just gone.

 

[Evil Homer]

Will all of them be running youth teams at every available level in 2013? Or is the "every available level" now reduced to two teams? You know full well that I'm alluding to next year and not the one just gone.

Yes, but the fact that the system has changed doesn't mean they 'aren't running junior teams', they are all doing exactly what is required of them.

The bottom line in this is that we all agree that certain teams are not at the standard they should be, but IMO this is part of the legacy of P&R, in fact the two examples you gave were both yo-yo teams who probably suffered the most from the old system. Reintroducing it would only exacerbate the problem and make it much worse for everyone.

 

[deluded pom?]

Yes, but the fact that the system has changed doesn't mean they 'aren't running junior teams', they are all doing exactly what is required of them.

Yet two teams without central funding can manage to run more junior teams! The less junior teams the less it costs to run. That's the bottom line. Instead of investing in juniors teams are investing in run of the mill players and overpaying them for the privilege.

The bottom line in this is that we all agree that certain teams are not at the standard they should be, but IMO this is part of the legacy of P&R, in fact the two examples you gave were both yo-yo teams who probably suffered the most from the old system. Reintroducing it would only exacerbate the problem and make it much worse for everyone.

So after receiving millions of pounds these same teams still can't meet the required standards but still have their seat at the top table. Given the same funding I'm sure there are other teams who could achieve the same poor standards currently being shown by teams at the bottom of SLE. There isn't one team yet that has been kicked out of SLE for not meeting the criteria of the licence. How long do we give these perrenial underachievers? Even now Salford and Cas will only be miss out because of a reduction in the number of teams or their own financial shortcomings. Having said that I'm sure the rest of the SLE clubs and the RFL will do all they can to keep them in SLE. After all, they've already set a precedent on that score.

 

[Evil Homer]

Yet two teams without central funding can manage to run more junior teams! The less junior teams the less it costs to run. That's the bottom line. Instead of investing in juniors teams are investing in run of the mill players and overpaying them for the privilege.

Which additional junior teams do Featherstone and Sheffield run that SL clubs don't? Which clubs are investing in 'run-of-the-mill players' instead of juniors? You've pointed the finger at Salford but their U20s team finished second in the league this year. I don't know what point you are trying to make, but the issue of investing in average players is greatly exacerbated by a system of promotion and relegation.

So after receiving millions of pounds these same teams still can't meet the required standards but still have their seat at the top table. Given the same funding I'm sure there are other teams who could achieve the same poor standards currently being shown by teams at the bottom of SLE.

Like who? Sheffield are the closest and have admitted that they aren't ready and that going up at present would be a disaster for them. We don't want clubs to achieve the same poor standards at the bottom of the league. We want clubs and the competition as a whole to improve. Reintroducing promotion and relegation would just bottom things out. At least under the current system clubs have the opportunity to improve. The fact that some are struggling isn't a surprise because they still don't have the same infrastructure and financial backing as other clubs. Largely because said clubs have been crippled by promotion and relegation in the past.

There isn't one team yet that has been kicked out of SLE for not meeting the criteria of the licence. How long do we give these perrenial underachievers? Even now Salford and Cas will only be miss out because of a reduction in the number of teams or their own financial shortcomings. Having said that I'm sure the rest of the SLE clubs and the RFL will do all they can to keep them in SLE. After all, they've already set a precedent on that score.

There has only been one round of licensing, why would you expect clubs to have been kicked out? And what would kicking anyone out achieve if they were being replaced by a weaker alternative?

 

[JasonE]

Talking about Hudds, i can't believe they let Greg Eden leave to go to Hull KR.
I think he is a really exciting player with a big future.
Great signing for HKR.

 

[The Showstopper]

Given the fact Huddersfield is the birthplace of this great game i am utterly astounded that more is not made of that fact. I also think it is time the English Rugby League and The NRL got together and nutted out a knockout competition for the world club title. Enough is enough. It is all talk and given we just got a 1 billion dollar windfall over here with TV rights there is enough money to promote the idea at least. The West Coast pirates here are a budding wannabe franchise from Perth who are talking about playing in the ESL. I think it is a brilliant idea and allows English clubs to play in Australia as well. Best way to test the water with such ideas. Evryone will see a fail in this but the game is a joke internationally so it has nothing to lose.