Improving the Union Game

[bender]

I rarely watch a full union game as it is too slow for my liking, but what i was wondering from those who do watch it, is whether or not it would be possible to improve the game as a spectator sport.

So i was wondering if anyone has any suggestions (aside from the obvious drop 2 players and introduce a play the ball).

From my experience union is frustrating because players seem to always kick to the line and then we have to wait for a scrum to form. For mine, this could be overcome by introducing a rule that players cannot kick out on the full (like league). This would make the goal line clearances so much more exciting than the current situation where players seem to just boot the ball into touch.

The other thing which i think could really help union would be the introduction of a differential/play the ball penalty. Union has so many penalties, but it would not be so bad if scrum/ruck infringements were replaced by a quick play the ball or tap. This would mean less games would be decided by penalty goals which is an obvious problem in union.

for mine those two changes would go a long way towards improving union as a spectacle.

 

[Paul]

Bender, I wholeheartedly agree with you. However, as I don't want to see union being "improved" if it is at all to the detriment of Rugby League, then I hope that these progressive rule changes are not implemented.

Interestingly, according to Tony Collins, by the late 1950's, most California club and university union teams were playing 13 a side and had outlawed kicking directly into touch, almost spontaneously developing league rules to counter the stagnation union rules brought into the game.
I assume the IRB must have stepped in to block this evolutionary change in the game on the west coast of the USA.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

The suggestions have their merits.
Paul, I get what you say about not wanting union to improve if it means it harms league by doing so, but I disagree in a way.
When the debate comes up as to whether people would favour a merger between the two codes we invariably oppose it as it would mean that Union would absorb League and Union is in our eyes inferior. However if Union were to improve as a game to the point where it rivalled League as a spectacle then perhaps a unified game could have some potential?

 

[Marcus]

imo, union should have a mechanism to control penalty counts.

For example, there should be a limit to the amount of penalties you can commit. I sort of like basketball's "team foul count" rule to be applied to rugby. In basketball the tfc rule penalises teams for committing too many fouls in a 1/2 or 1/4. Maybe this method could be adapted to rugby in order to keep the game from becoming a penalty fest.

 

[Paul]

SpaceMonkey, I think that what you have said is precisely what the southern hemisphere rugby unions , specifically the john o'neill headed aru, would like to see happen. They know that the best way to tackle Rugby League is by imitating it, to the point that where is less resistance on the part of non-partisan "rugby" fans to watching the duller rugby code. It might not make staunch Rugby League fans like you or me watch the inferior game, but it may attract younger fans who had not been previously exposed to the formerly dull and boring rugby code. Fortunately, the northern hemisphere dominated irb do not want this to happen, and are actively resisting efforts in the southern hemisphere to make the union game more "Rugby League" like.

Long live ten man rugby

 

[Edwahu]

In the one half of Union I watched this year the thing that pissed me off most was that every time a player caught a kick, he kicked it straight back to the opposition. After 15 years of watching Belcher, Mullins and Schif carve sides up, it seemed like a bit of a waste.

 

[Gav-bt]

How anyone can devote more than one sentence to this overhyped noncelike garbage is beyond me.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Here's an article about Eddie Jones reaction to the SOO game 1. It really is complimentary to league as a game:

Jones aims for Origin standard
By Greg Growden
Friday, June 13, 2003 The Wallabies were invigorated by the State of Origin rugby league epic. But what the Australian players witnessed will eventually see their time on the training track becoming more of a torture test. Wallaby coach Eddie Jones said yesterday Australian rugby could learn a great deal from those involved in the league showpiece as it proved the importance of training harder, working harder, and improving fitness, speed and skill levels. The big lesson was that Australian rugby players could no longer take short cuts on the training paddock and expect to be a big influence on the international arena. Jones yesterday stressed that Wallabies had to aspire to being able to play with the same level of intensity, ability and agility as if they were involved in a State of Origin match. He believes the Australian players have the capacity to lift to that level, but it requires overwhelming commitment and a high work ethic. It may not happen as early as tomorrow night's Test against Wales at Telstra Stadium, but he is hoping for major improvement by World Cup time in October-November.<br clear=all> "It's now so obvious that players have to train at a high level if they want to play well. The old days of being able to train intermittently and play well are finished," Jones said. "The game is getting too fast, and it will get faster. You only have to look at the State of Origin league game last night. What was impressive with that match was the speed of action, speed of passing and the skill level was just fantastic. "Ultimately I think we'll end up playing the game like that. And it will be a fantastic game when we do that, because of the added element of rugby's unpredictability." The crucial ingredient was improving rugby players' endurance and condition. "The fitness levels in union can certainly be improved," Jones said. " We're trying to do that by making a couple of our training sessions harder than the actual games. That's the way we'll improve the pace we play the game, and the skill levels. "We can improve our work capacity, that is the big thing. That means we can run faster for longer periods of time. And that has to happen from a young age. "You just have to look at 15-, 16-, 17-, 18-year-old league players . . . they are far more physically developed than their rugby counterparts, and we need to be working down the same track.

 

[berno]

Regarding Crowden's article-How can RU in Australia possible match Rl here because 60% of the 100 or so players in the 3 professional sides are NRL rejects.

On the point of rule changes for RU there needs to be something done about the passing from the ground. At present if a player is grounded (on a one to one basis) and momrntum grounded but the ball does not touch the ground (relatively easy in most cases) they are allowed to pass the ball. This is a disgrace-I mean what is the purpose of doing a tackle.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Here's another article from RugbyHeaven where the ARU are worried about competing with league, especially Origin, as a fan spectacle.

Whistle-happy ref gives O'Neill nightmares
By Neil Harvey
Monday, June 16, 2003 England's ugly 15-13 win over the All Blacks will likely provoke nightmares for Australian Rugby Union chief John O'Neill. The clash of the rugby titans in Wellington reinforced the worst fears of the ARU which is hoping to capitalise on this year's showcase World Cup to expand their football code in Australia. As a spectacle the game stunk, never getting out of first gear under the weight of 33 penalties uncovered by referee Stuart Dickinson. If that's what happens when all the one-sided pool games are out of the way and rugby superpowers collide in the play-offs, the World Cup is in for a damp squib of a finale. Inevitable comparisons with rugby league's non-stop State of Origin thriller three days earlier would only rub salt in the wound for O'Neill.<br clear=all> And the fact that the referee was an Australian wouldn't have helped, after years of Australian complaints about the whistle-happy ways of northern hemisphere refs. Apart from brief moments of scintillating running from Wendell Sailor and Chris Latham there's also been precious little to enthuse about in Australia's wins over Ireland and Wales. And the ARU will dread a repeat of Saturday's Wellington shocker when stodgy England travels to AFL heartland Melbourne to play the Wallabies this Saturday

 

This message has been deleted by the author.

 

[imported_Everlovin_Antichrist]

Unfortunately for Buggery Union, the only way to improve the game is to take ideas from League.

The England v NZ game is testament to what 2 top Union sides will do. The game will stutter, attack will be stifled and the match decided by penalties. It happens frequently.

When was the last time a Rugby League game of NRL standard or betterwon by a team that didn't score any tries?

1986?

 

[CanadianSteve]

I thought this was an interesting article, talking aboput the way RL has influenced the All Black Carlos Spencer:

In a league of his own
By Greg Growden
Friday, July 25, 2003 If the Wallabies are standing despondently behind their goal posts tomorrow night wondering how they have become the latest team to be bamboozled by a Carlos Spencer kick, blame Andrew Johns and company. The rugby league ranks repeatedly praise Joey Johns as the king of midfield trickery. But rugby union has its own prince, with the All Blacks five-eighth as adept in bewildering oppositions with a vast array of optical illusions, including unpredictable flick passes, deft chip kicks, and the most extravagant of running lines. It works, with Spencer's opportunistic eye a critical factor in the Auckland Blues winning this year's Super 12 title, and in the All Blacks quickly asserting themselves as favourites for the 2003 big three - the Bledisloe Cup, Tri Nations and World Cup tournaments. At least Spencer is modest enough to admit that it is not all his own work. He is an avid student of other masters of deception, in particular those from the other code - Kangaroos captain Johns and New Zealand Warriors halfback Stacey Jones.<br clear=all> Spencer's latest trick is the banana kick, which led to numerous Auckland tries this season because opposing defences were baffled by where they thought the ball was going to go. They went one way, the ball went the other, and voila, Auckland found themselves either in the perfect position to score or had found the try line. "The banana kick I definitely got from league," Spencer said yesterday. "I got that from Andrew Johns and Stacey Jones." "I brought it into the game because of the way defences are now. It is just another variation to keep opponents honest, especially as a lot of teams now build their whole game around defence. And it has paid off." Spencer is hardly the traditional, staid All Blacks pivot. While New Zealand have, over the decades, relied upon the more dependable style of five-eighth, whose prime aim was to keep the ball in front of the marauding All Black packs, Spencer often comes way out of left field. More often than not he will chose the unexpected option. His extravagant manner has seen him disappear from the All Black starting XV for lengthy stretches, as shown by tomorrow night's Bledisloe Cup Test being his first run-on international against Australia since 1997. In seven seasons of Test football, Spencer has just 19 Test caps. Nonetheless, Spencer has always stuck to his beliefs and played the game exactly the way he wants to - with refreshing flair and adventure. "A lot of things I do now came to me when I was growing up," Spencer said. "I played a lot of touch footy, and that's where I learnt and practised the flick passes and all those sorts of things. I grew up always doing stuff like that, and that continued when I started playing first XV footy. "That's the way I've always played it and that's the way I like to enjoy it. That's me as a player. And just because you get to this level, I can't see why you should stop doing it. So I've never stopped doing it. "I know sometimes it comes off, and sometimes it doesn't. But that's the way life is sometimes." Spencer stresses he is not on an individual pursuit of happiness. "There's always a game plan and I don't go out there strictly to entertain myself, doing things which is best for me. The team always comes first, and I'll just try things if I think they're on." But he is fully aware that he will keep everyone delighted if what he does leads to tries all over the park. "It is really enjoyable when your team is scoring a lot of tries. When you've finished a game and you've scored five or six tries, you know that everything has been worthwhile. That's the aim of the game. Score as many as you can." Like other All Blacks including Tana Umaga, Brad Thorn and Steve Devine, Spencer has played his fair share of league, believing it helped mould him into a rounded footballer. It also convinced him that what works in league, can, with certain modifications, work in rugby. "I used to play first XV on Saturday and league on the Sunday. I enjoyed it because you tended to get a bit more space in league. But I don't know what it will be like at the top level. I never really took it serious though . . . it was just something to do on a Sunday, getting out there with your mates and having a bit of fun." For Spencer, fun has always been the paramount word, especially if it has Wallabies and other opponents going bananas. This story was found at: http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/24/1058853199280.html language=JavaScript>&lt;/SCRIPT> language=JavaScript1.1>&lt;/SCRIPT> language=JavaScript1.1 src="http://server-au.imrworldwide.com/a1.js"> &lt;/SCRIPT> &lt;APPLET codeBase=http://server-au.imrworldwide.com/ code=Measure.class width=1 height=2>&lt;PARAM NAME="cid" VALUE="au_f2_RugbyHeaven-Printer">&lt;PARAM NAME="sr" VALUE="sr1024x768:cd16:lgen-ca:jey:cky:tz-4:ctlan:hpn">&lt;PARAM NAME="ref" VALUE="">&lt;PARAM NAME="codeBase" VALUE="http://server-au.imrworldwide.com/">&lt;PARAM NAME="code" VALUE="Measure.class">&lt;PARAM NAME="width" VALUE="1">&lt;PARAM NAME="height" VALUE="2">&lt;/APPLET> language=JavaScript> &lt;/SCRIPT> &lt;COMMENT> &lt;noscript>

&lt;/noscript> &lt;/COMMENT>

 

[CanadianSteve]

Here's an article about the idea of RL lending players, and maybe a coach, to the Wallabies.

Maybe Stuart and Johns could help out
By Roy Masters
Thursday, July 31, 2003 Question: How do you shut up 80,000 Wallabies fans wearing gold scarfs? Answer: Start the game. Australian rugby union fans haven't had much to cheer about following successive losses to England, South Africa and New Zealand. The Wallabies' chances of making the final of the Rugby World Cup and winning it appear to be nil and niller. However, an ex-Wallaby could resurrect Australia's chances if a coterie of rugby union-rugby league powerbrokers is to be believed. Newcastle Knights chairman Michael Hill, his former legal partner, former Wallaby Ross Turnbull, and leading player manager John Fordham believe Roosters coach Ricky Stuart would make an immediate impact on the Australian team. Fordham, who manages Stuart, said: "Twenty minutes after the Bledisloe Cup match, Ricky sent me a text message.<br clear=all> "It read: 'There were two different cultures playing out there tonight'." Fordham said the implications of Stuart's message were obvious: the All Blacks played with aggression; the Wallabies were submissive. "I have fielded numerous inquiries about Ricky coaching rugby union," Fordham said of Stuart, an international in both rugby codes. "Two weeks ago, he was invited to do three rugby union coaching stints in one week - St Joseph's College First XV, Randwick first grade and Eastern Suburbs first grade. "Long before last week's disaster, many people were asking me to get Ricky Stuart to coach the Wallabies." OK, it won't happen. The Australian Rugby Union has demonstrated commendable loyalty to incumbent coach Eddie Jones, and Stuart has recently re-signed with the Roosters. However, Fordham accompanied another of his major clients to the Bledisloe Cup - Newcastle and Kangaroos halfback Andrew Johns. "The ARU moved a few years ago to get Joey on board, making a significant offer," Fordham said. However, before anyone begins salivating at the prospect of Johns replacing George Gregan in time for the Rugby World Cup, there's a problem: Johns will lead the Kangaroos on their tour of New Zealand, France and England, which covers the seven weeks of the tournament. But his own club chairman, Hill, a board member of the NSWRL, believes future rugby league stars will be released for major rugby union matches. "I can see a situation where a Johns or a Ben Kennedy [the Newcastle second-rower who captained Australia's under-21 rugby union team] insist on clauses in their contracts allowing them the right to play in world cups," he said. "There is no question it would be an enormous attraction for a player to wear the colours of another code. "The ARL must protect the integrity of its own league but a Johns playing a major rugby union tournament would generate enormous publicity for rugby league. "A backline of Johns, [Brad] Fittler, Matthew Gidley, plus the three Wallabies they already have [Mat Rogers, Wendell Sailor and Lote Tuqiri] with a coach like Stuart would give it a shake." The standard NRL contract has a "Hopoate clause" which prevents players from appearing in unsanctioned competitions, as the Manly winger found when he played fifth grade for Parramatta rugby union. Hill insisted it was not fanciful to predict players switching between the codes. "It's already happening. Bradford [league club in England] have released two wingers [Lesley Vainikolo and Tevita Vaikona] to play for Tonga in the Rugby World Cup. "Bradford won the Middlesex Sevens, a major rugby competition last August." Kiwi coach Daniel Anderson considered former rugby league international Henry Paul, currently in the England A rugby union team, for five-eighth in the team recently thrashed by the Kangaroos. Liam Botham, the son of former English cricketer Ian, is a former England under-21 player and made his rugby league debut last week for Leeds Rhinos reserve grade team. Botham has a dual code contract that allows him to play for Leeds Tykes in the northern hemisphere winter. Leeds Tykes is the club that gave Wendell Sailor his taste for rugby union. Warrington sold brilliant utility back Iestyn Harris to Wales, allowing him to play in the Rugby World Cup, with the option Harris return to rugby league. Fordham cites Great Britain centre Gary Connolly, whom he says moved from Wigan's Orrell rugby union club to Wigan and back to Orrell in one season. NRL chief executive David Gallop argues that only playmakers, outside backs and some back-rowers make the transition, and the intensity of rugby league is such that elite players need an off-season of rest. Still, in this rent-a-player era, backs like Johns and Brisbane's Darren Lockyer would assist the Wallabies. After all, Australian rugby isn't snobby: in recent years it has resembled an outpost of the French Foreign Legion with its number of overseas-born players. Hiring rugby league forwards is a different matter. Imagine the mayhem if someone stomped on Gorden Tallis. This story was found at: http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au