Interesting comparison Bennett vs Price

[Minh]

It's interesting to note that since the start of the 2012 season when Price took over as St George Illawarra head coach and Bennett as Newcastle head coach after one and a half seasons and 38 games later both Bennett and Price have the exact same winning percentage winning only 16 of 38 matches for a winning percentage of 42.1%.

Both Price and Bennett rely on and have strong faith in older experienced players obviously Price trying to copy Bennett and not the other way around. Newcastle recruited Buderus, Tahu, Mason, Gower just to name a few. Price recruited a rather old war torn Josh Miller, Bronson Harrison (past peak) and sticks with Nathan Fien, Matt Cooper and last year Ben Hornby. No disrespect but all these great players are well past their prime in terms of physical ability as well as being more injury prone.

Both teams aren't exactly dynamic in attack and rely heavily on defense which is a very taxing way to play. Are they just too old and too slow to keep up with the pace of the modern game for long periods. Of course Bennett with a better younger squad would still be effective in my opinion, but Price seems very one dimensional and stubborn with his failed selections to be successful.

Is it just a coincidence that both Bennett and Price are on the same low winning percentage with inconsistent performances and inability to compete with the top tier teams, or are other top tier teams and coaches now one or many steps ahead?

 

[saints4ever]

Very good analysis.

 

[TruSaint]

Very good analysis.

+1
Well contructed Minh

 

[Minh]

Thanks guys any theories maybe as to why even Bennett is not doing as well as many would have thought?

 

[possm]

Put Price in charge of the Knights and Bennett back in charge of the Dragons and I'm sure you would get a very different result.

Trying to make out that Price is anywhere near the quality of Bennett is ........ because we all know he isn't - even he knows he isn't.

 

[Minh]

Put Price in charge of the Knights and Bennett back in charge of the Dragons and I'm sure you would get a very different result.

Trying to make out that Price is anywhere near the quality of Bennett is ........ because we all know he isn't - even he knows he isn't.

Price is no Bennett Possm that is clear but what is happening with Bennett these days?

 

[possm]

Price is no Bennett Possm that is clear but what is happening with Bennett these days?

Like many of us he is a year older and very close to his use by date. He got is big retirement fund contribution and is doing his best to get to year 4 of his contract.

I do believe he is trying but he is on the decline with a club that is not buying the Bennett culture.

 

[Dezziedc]

Both Price and Bennett rely on and have strong faith in older experienced players obviously Price trying to copy Bennett and not the other way around. Newcastle recruited Buderus, Tahu, Mason, Gower just to name a few. Price recruited a rather old war torn Josh Miller, Bronson Harrison (past peak) and sticks with Nathan Fien, Matt Cooper and last year Ben Hornby. No disrespect but all these great players are well past their prime in terms of physical ability as well as being more injury prone.

My thoughts about what Price is trying to do is to retain the defence that was build up with Bennett, but change the attacking style. It's obviously not coming off though. I think there is alot of work to do with the team and I don't think we have any real options currently in key positions - that has got to gimp go forward and attacking creativity.

Although we have recruited OK for next year, I don't see it being a blockbuster year either. My thoughts are that we are going to have a few disappointing years ahead of us unless we can recruit some star players.

 

[dragonv]

Price is just hoping for the best each week quite obviously. That's his strategy.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Price is just hoping for the best each week quite obviously. That's his strategy.

But hes not paid to hope hes paid to do

 

[mickeylane]

You gotta wonder about Bennetts latest recruiting strategies..

recruiting Michael Dobson (half), Gower (Half), Newton...these are all very poor recruits.....hes a coach that's under pressure to get results and hes throwing shit against the wall and hopes it sticks..

Bennett walked into a very good Dragons team that needed a bit of tweaking!! he was very lucky....not withstanding he did do a great job of turning us into the best team in the world in 2011!!

 

[Black Forest Dragon]

It's interesting to note that since the start of the 2012 season when Price took over as St George Illawarra head coach and Bennett as Newcastle head coach after one and a half seasons and 38 games later both Bennett and Price have the exact same winning percentage winning only 16 of 38 matches for a winning percentage of 42.1%.

or are other top tier teams and coaches now one or many steps ahead?[/QUOTE]


Minh, really interesting read - and I reckon you have definitely defined something here - thank you.

Having a successful Coaching method is important, knowing whether it will work depending on where and when you apply it is even better.

It's situational. The Dragons were in the ideal place for Bennett's method to work. So he is trying it again at the Knights and Steve Price is persisting with it at Dragons.

IMO - neither is working for the reason you higlighited above.

The game has moved on.

 

[Minh]

It's interesting to note that since the start of the 2012 season when Price took over as St George Illawarra head coach and Bennett as Newcastle head coach after one and a half seasons and 38 games later both Bennett and Price have the exact same winning percentage winning only 16 of 38 matches for a winning percentage of 42.1%.

or are other top tier teams and coaches now one or many steps ahead?[/QUOTE]


Minh, really interesting read - and I reckon you have definitely defined something here - thank you.

Having a successful Coaching method is important, knowing whether it will work depending on where and when you apply it is even better.

It's situational. The Dragons were in the ideal place for Bennett's method to work. So he is trying it again at the Knights and Steve Price is persisting with it at Dragons.

IMO - neither is working for the reason you higlighited above.

The game has moved on.

Thanks BFD it's just a theory and I have got plenty lately lol.

 

[TheRev]

The key difference between the Dragons and many of the other struggling sides (Newcastle included) is that those sides struggle to find consistency, but they play a brand of footy that can potentially beat anybody on their day, and this round typifys that with thumping wins by the Tigers, Cowboys, Warriors & Newcastle.

The Dragons are nothing like those teams, our negative brand of footy, defensive player selections (Fien/Chase/Prior/Green in particular) & lack of risks taken on youth development over 2 years, means that when we play our best footy, we hope to score 2 tries a game and defend/grind a win with defence.

The difference is that all those other sides can make a late finals play if they time their run right, Bennett/Price may have similar win % in recent times, but our football teams are leagues apart in terms of potential.

 

[Minh]

The key difference between the Dragons and many of the other struggling sides (Newcastle included) is that those sides struggle to find consistency, but they play a brand of footy that can potentially beat anybody on their day, and this round typifys that with thumping wins by the Tigers, Cowboys, Warriors & Newcastle.

The Dragons are nothing like those teams, our negative brand of footy, defensive player selections (Fien/Chase/Prior/Green in particular) & lack of risks taken on youth development over 2 years, means that when we play our best footy, we hope to score 2 tries a game and defend/grind a win with defence.

The difference is that all those other sides can make a late finals play if they time their run right, Bennett/Price may have similar win % in recent times, but our football teams are leagues apart in terms of potential.

Totally agree with your points, especially the part where you said those teams can beat anybody on their day, that's not us I'm afraid.

 

[TheRev]

Totally agree with your points, especially the part where you said those teams can beat anybody on their day, that's not us I'm afraid.

Yeah Newcastle especially, young developing halves, and a very dangerous back 5, couple of mongrels up front, I think Gidley/Buderus injuries were huge for them.. but the pieces are there, its just taking a while to merge them... yet somehow at the Dragons he moulded us defensively within like a month of arriving it seemed.

 

[Black Forest Dragon]

The key difference between the Dragons and many of the other struggling sides (Newcastle included) is that those sides struggle to find consistency, but they play a brand of footy that can potentially beat anybody on their day, and this round typifys that with thumping wins by the Tigers, Cowboys, Warriors & Newcastle.

The Dragons are nothing like those teams, our negative brand of footy, defensive player selections (Fien/Chase/Prior/Green in particular) & lack of risks taken on youth development over 2 years, means that when we play our best footy, we hope to score 2 tries a game and defend/grind a win with defence.

The difference is that all those other sides can make a late finals play if they time their run right, Bennett/Price may have similar win % in recent times, but our football teams are leagues apart in terms of potential.

My 23 y.o. son (who is also pretty astute) made the same observation. It's the brand of footy we play that is maddening and ultimately it will be a Long haul to change that. It's why we all vent so much ... we just want to get started on the road to recovery, and no one is confident we can make that start that with the current method of coaching.

Furthermore, my son reckons that in 2010/11, most clubs saved their best game of the year against the Dragons (Canberra Voodoo for example) ...and frequently commentators described the quality of the game we were involved in as "outstanding", "excellent" etc.

Now, they seem to bring their worst game (and win) and the quality of the games we play in described as poor. In the post match pressie on Saturday night for example, Ivan Cleary said it was...

"...pleasing for his Panthers side to have played poorly, but still get the win" or words to that effect; and,

"...that a game at home, against the Dragons, was one they expected to win".

Ouch!

 

[Efresh]

Minh, it's an interesting stat but the devil is always in the detail.

In 2009 we had a core of veteran players who would do anything to win a comp and off field were a professionally run organisation. In 2012, the Knights had just gone through the turmoil of the Tinkler buyout and in previous years had players charged with dealing drugs to teammates and others. Eg, we had a strong culture when Bennett came and the Knights were close to a shambles.

Bennett has said that we were in good shape when he came. All he needed to do was install the attitude and buy some key skills to harden us up. At the Knights he has had to do almost a total clean out and even still he can't get a consistent performance out of them. After 4 losses on the trot, they flogged Gold Coast today and somehow these pelicans lost to us. Twice! Even so, Newcastle are improving while we are going backwards. I don't expect the win percentages to stay even for much longer.

 

[Minh]

True Efresh and it wouldn't surprise me if the Knights get done next week whoever they play too. In all honesty it's crunch time, money end of the season and I'd expect Bennett will have them ready somehow.