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International Eligibility

Discussion in 'North American Rugby League' started by nadera78, Jan 15, 2011.

  1. nadera78

    nadera78 Juniors

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    If the AMNRL decide not to have anything to do with the USARL (as seems likely from the tweets from the AMNRL people) then not only will the Tomahawks be weaker, but other countries won't be able to select players who play for USARL clubs. There's no way the RLIF can allow players from unofficial, unaligned comps to play internationals. This would affect Canada for a start, who I believe have a few guys kicking around in the US.
     
  2. Spitty

    Spitty Juniors

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    From what I understand Canada's international status is being sorted out as we speak. They're national team consists mostly of Union players aligned to a Union domestic league, who play rugby league for Canada on the side. Obviously this has some implications for being considered a member of the RLIF.

    As for USARL players being able to represent the Tomahawks, this is still debatable and as it stands the AMNRL are keeping tight lipped. Which says to me that they are considering it the implications either way. While they're have been some abusive tweets going around, the twitterer that counts is David Nui and he's not participating in those.

    I know Nui has a strong drive to see the Tomahawks in the World Cup and their's no doubt they'll need a full strength team to get past Jamaica in the qualifiers. At the end of the day, I believe it is Nui's decision if he chooses to recognise the USARL players and he needs to weigh up the benefits of qualfying and playing in a world cup. Against giving a rebel domestic league legitimacy.
     
  3. juro

    juro Bench

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    Sure, Niu has not tweeted anything but he has passed on at least 1 of those tweets belittling the USARL. As far as I'm concerned, that's as good as tweeting it himself...
     
  4. roopy

    roopy Referee

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    Common sense will prevail in the end.
     
  5. skrabsta

    skrabsta Juniors

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    The full story is at we are rugby, http://www.wearerugby.com/news/articles/amnrl-sets-stage-landmark-year , but this line kind of jumped out -
    The Tomahawks, the US national team, consist of the best players in the AMNRL and will be a tremendous preview of the action fans will see in the league’s upcoming season.
    If this is the case, I cant see the US winning unless they stack the side with players based outside the US who are eligible via a parent or grand parent.
     
  6. deluded pom?

    deluded pom? Coach

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    The ball is definitely in David Niu's court. He either acknowledges the USARL and chooses the international players from across both leagues or he denies their existence and drastically weakens the Tomahawks.
     
  7. Evil Homer

    Evil Homer Moderator Staff Member

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    If Niu doesn't pick the strongest available side, then that pretty much justifies the USARL's decision to split IMO. I wouldn't want someone as petty as that in charge.
     
  8. Spitty

    Spitty Juniors

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    I think there's more to it than just being petty. The decision could have massive ramifications for the game in the US and needs to made carefully.

    Nui can only pick from players who are registered with the AMNRL, this is in the international by-laws. So he needs to examine the ramifications of having USARL players registered with the AMNRL.
     
  9. Evil Homer

    Evil Homer Moderator Staff Member

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    Surely that isn't part of the international rules, that would mean the USA weren't able to pick any players who are playing overseas.

    It's a ridiculous rule if so, I don't see why nations shouldn't be able to select any players they want so long as they are eligible. For example, if USA decided to select a bunch of NFL players, I wouldn't have any issue with that. Nations should be allowed to put out the strongest team they can.
     
  10. East Coast Tiger

    East Coast Tiger Coach

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    Of course they can pick whoever they like. And the US has done so many times. Even picking blokes who have never really played the game. I expect we'll see plenty of players from outside the AMNRL in the Tomahawks side but I doubt any will come from the USARL unless there is some reconciliation between the two in the meantime.
     
  11. Spitty

    Spitty Juniors

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    They could pick them whether or not they had played RL, becasue they were either a) Still registered with the AMNRL or b) they were Mickey Mouse games which aren't recognised by the RLIF.

    I can't just turn up and play for Cambridge Park of a weekend can I?

    I can for a trial game that means nothing, but for a competitive game I need to be registered, pay insurance, pay a registration fee, have my age and eligibility checked etc.

    It's the same if not more stringent at an international level.

    The AMNRL can pick gridiron players if they want. They just need to be registered. They don't necissarily need to play in the AMNRL competition though. But the AMNRL chooses to accept they're registration despite them not playing in the competition.

    The same applies for the USARL players. They may as well be a gridiron league, it's at the discretion of the AMNRL whether they accept their registration. And their are obvious implication to the AMNRL doing that.
     
  12. East Coast Tiger

    East Coast Tiger Coach

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    You can't play for Cambridge Park because you have to be registered with the NSWRL to do that. But there is no international recognition of domestically registered players. So of course they can pick any player they like. That's why so many international sides can just play union players or ring-ins from anywhere they like.
     
  13. Spitty

    Spitty Juniors

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    double post
     
  14. Spitty

    Spitty Juniors

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    Yes but my registration with Cambo is with the club, by way of the Penrith DJRL, by way of the NSWRL and then by way of the ARL. And if I'm registered with the ARL and I meet all the criteria I can play for Australia. If I'm from NZ and playing in Australia and NZ want to pick me, I need to register with the NZRL to play for them and that registration needs to meet the eligibility criteria of the RLIF. Doesn't mean I have to play in NZ.

    If I'm instead playing for the Penrith Emu's RU side. I can try and register with the ARL to play for Australia, but they are highly unlikely to accept my registration. If I play tackle footy with my mates across the road every Saturday and I think I'm pretty good I can try and register with the ARL, but again they are unlikely to accept it.

    I can go and get 16 of my mates and put togethor a team and approach the RLIF and tell them that me and my 16 mates want to be a 2nd Australian team. They'll tell me "No", their can only be 1 Australian team and that team is run by the ARL and the ARL require you to be registered with them to be eligible to play for Australia.

    If the USARL players approach the RLIF and say we want to be a 2nd USA team, they'll get the same response. Go and see the AMNRL that's who we recognise as running your national team.

    How do you expect the RLIF to monitor the eligibility of a player if they're not registered with the governing body for that country? They could make up anything about anyone.
     
  15. yakstorm

    yakstorm Bench

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    The Tomahawks picked players internationals in 2010 that hadn't played any League before with the AMNRL.

    SIONE 'PILA' TAUFA (Maui, HA)
    LAFAELE 'VAKA' MANUPUNA (Maui, HA)

    Are two that I could find without issues.

    You can't compare the registration requirements of the AMNRL with that in Australia. Rugby League has quite stringent registration processes within Australia at all levels of the game, especially verses the likes of say Touch Footy or Indoor Soccer, where people often do just 'rock up' for a match.

    Niu can pick whoever he wants for the World Cup qualifiers so long as they qualify for the states under the resident or grandparent rules, and that he satisfies the minimum number of domestic players within the squad.

    This means he can pick players from the USARL, just the same way as the PNGRFL has picked from leagues within PNG which have no affiliation with the PNGRFL.

    Honestly considering this qualification process is the best possible opportunity for the USA to make a League World Cup, Niu would be silly not to pick the strongest possible side ever. Remember there is no guarantee that such a straight forward qualification path will exist for future tournaments. The 2017 tournament might go back to just 10 or 12 teams, or by 2017 suddenly the likes of Malta, Canada, Germany, Greece, Saudi Arabia plus more are in the mix, and the qualification process becomes more like the 2008 RLWC which was always going to be hard for the States.
     
  16. East Coast Tiger

    East Coast Tiger Coach

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    The AMNRL is not the ARL. The rules that apply here are ARL rules, not RLIF rules. The RLIF can easily keep track of eligibility - that has nothing to do with players being registered to a club or association. They can't keep track of registrations though, which is why they don't.
     
  17. Spitty

    Spitty Juniors

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    Look, this argument is getting long in the tooth and boring. So lets try and clear this up.

    Are you saying that the players are registered with the RLIF and not the country of representation?

    Or are you saying that they aren't registered at all with anybody?
     
  18. yakstorm

    yakstorm Bench

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    The players are registered with the RLIF for the tournament only, they can be nominated from where ever beforehand and its up to the individual league whether they choose to have those players registered with them or not.

    But as shown many times before, not just in the USA, and not just in our sport (remember Lesley Vanikolo being selected for the Tonga RU team when he was still playing for Bradford?) how each nation pulls together their teams is up to them so long as they satisfy the residency or grandparent qualification rules.
     
  19. Spitty

    Spitty Juniors

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    I've always understood the rule to be the way I've described it. I've searched the net in the last few days looking for the rules, but getting info out of the RLIF is like pulling teeth.

    If someone can give me an official answer, from an official source. I'll concede. But at this stage it looks as though everyone is running on the same amount of evidence as I am. Just an understanding of how we think it is.

    I know international matches have been played with players from all walks of life, but I maintain they are exhibition matches, not officially sanctioned test matches.
     
  20. Evil Homer

    Evil Homer Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the crux of it is that the RLIF don't know themselves, if it doesn't involve Australia then they usually aren't interested. The rule as you stated is obviously not the case though, it would be stupid and wouldn't make any sense if it were. Teams name squads for tournaments, and presumably these are then checked for eligibility by the RLIF (or should be). It's certainly not like registering players for club games.
     

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