International game is looking sad

[legend]

After an inept performance from the Kiwi's the international future of league is on very shaky ground. Last year we walloped the poms by 50 and this year the Kiwi's by 40.

The Kiwi's game was very one dimensional and Anderson has shown while he is a good NRL coach, he is not yet ready to coach the national team. Why start with Swann and Gutenbeil over Puletua and Gulavao? If Anderson had started with Wiki, Swain, Rauhihi, Puletua, Gulavao and Kearney they would have been able to match the Aussies in the opening exchanges.

Man I am so pissed off at the Kiwi's showing tonight. More than an Australian victory I wanted to see a competitive match and that was never on the cards.

International league just took a huge stride backwards.

 

[guten_targ]

Thats a fair comment legend, but then considering the preparation that the Australian team had(3 Games of full on Origin Footy) the Kiwi team were never going to foot it on even terms were they?

State of Origin gives the Kangaroo's that extra 3 games to hone the gameplan and see who would go well as a partnership. That series is by far better than any test match could ever hope to be.

"Oh stop blaming it on origin" I hear you say, so I say where is the kiwi preperation to be found and how will test footy on the international stage ever amount to anything when a one week session together against no opposition is all the kiwi's have to compete against Origins 30 to 40 odd players, who are then whittled down as they have been over this origin series, to finally come up with Australias powerful team that blew us off the park.

Add the above to the fact that tonight we were woefull and had a bad case of the dropsies and we never stood a chance, yet on paper we should have.

The media here will have a field day with this effort and wrongfully so due to the minimal prep time that Daniel has had and Daniel himself will be blamed for this debacle because the end result was that we got hammered by a well drilled outfit of footballers.

Give Daniel a series on a similar parr to your origin series and I'll wager you and I would have seen the competitive contest we both wanted tonight.

But in its current format Daniel will always be pushing shite uphill!!

Thats my view anyway mate, dont know what others would be saying about the test.

 

[JoeD]

I agree with you GT. The biggest dissappointment for me is that it is so long before the next test match, I don't even know when it is. If there was another match in a week or 2 weeks or even a month away we could assess our game plan, look at our selections, see where we went wrong, make changes and develop a squad. As it stands every time we play we start from scratch and that is never going to win games against the aussies.

 

[salivor]

I'm sick of looking for excuses, we find too many of them after these performances. The origin series has its downfalls as its a tough time for the players. Those matches are amazingly physical and then most players are backing up in a club match a couple of days later. A lot of the Australian players commented that they were tired. We had the advantage of having fresh legs on them.

Its just about time the Kiwis pulled finger and fronted up. Theres enough talent to match and beat the Australians in that side. There were several in form players coming into this match who've been gunning it in the NRL this year. Alot of these players also play together so theres plenty of combinations there.

That pack of players are an embarrassment. It was just sloppy reserve grade standard football. Dropped ball, poor fifth tackle options and trying to force the issue too much. They deserved to be beaten by more. Anderson deserves time in the role and would probably get more out of them on a tour but lets face it, its still the same mob of players and Wayne Bennett or Phil Gould couldn't help this lot if they're not prepared to play to internatinal standards.

 

[guten_targ]

Okay Salivor..then answer this mate, how many times did Queensland drop the ball, not turn up or generally play embarrasing footy during the SOO series?

Then how many games did they have to effect change in a few positional options?, come back into SOO III and take the game, please note I said game III and not the first game where Johns & co destroyed Queensland, not (one), (or two), but three!!

Three chances Queensland had to get their options and Gameplan to a comparable level..that is the prep time I am saying is missing.

The Roos were structured mate, right across the park, "yes', I hear you say "but we had the more experienced team on paper"

And as to the tired bit mate..did you see any tired players in the Australian team?..hell no..all you could see was a team of 17 guys hell bent on, and confident in what they could do, tear a team of one week wonders apart, if thats an excuse to you mate..then ask yourself if we could become better if we were given an even chance.

No excuses made for the loss mate, I actually said we would lose and that we didn't have a hope in hell of taking a one off game with the time we had together as a team.

We were bad..really bad, but I still maintain that we would be a hell of a lot better if we could compete on equal ground.

 

[salivor]

You see the thing is that Queensland isn't Australia. They have to all come together again and play as one side albeit with a few more fine tuned combinations. Also I think you'll find alot of the changes Queensland made were forced upon them by injury.

Theres simply no excuses. New Zealand isn't going to get an origin series or get to be part of it if thats what your hoping. You seem to be ranting about how unfair it is but its the way its been for 23 years. Thats what we've got and we can only work with that.

Did you put some thought in to why the Australians weren't tired? They didn't exactly have the kiwis running around them to tire them. If the Kiwis had been able to get some composure and some momentum and made a contest of it I think you would've seen some very tired Australians in that final 20 minutes.

Isn't it always so easy to predict a loss before hand so then you can just sit back and say I told you so afterwards? If you seriously think that performance was a result of just 5 days of preperation then your dreaming. That was poor footy, I would've given Souths a shot against them. We're talking about basics here that they stuffed up on.

 

[Anonymous]

I know players are already playing a full schedule but imo, the only way to deal with this is to have a best of 3 Test series over a shorter time period.

This business of having one-off matches and giving the opposition a chance to 're-group' months or even a year down the track isn't good enough.

Sure, it's Australia 1st and daylight 2nd but it's not just the fault of the Brits or the Kiwis... imo, it's just bad management which is killing the international game.

And why in farks name do they insist with this dated and old-hack idea that a suspended player in a club competition should be ruled out of an international? Ali Lauiti'iti should have been playing.

 

[legend]

I think a three test series is the way to go but most of these blokes have played together before. I still can't understand why Anderson started with low impact players in the opening twenty minutes. Every second year a three test series between Australia and NZ should be held with a combined pacific nations making up a thrid side to develop the game.

Some of the Kiwi forwards really took it to the Aussies but when the Kiwis tried to spin it wide everything fell apart. I thought Rauhihi and Wiki were damaging when they ran the ball but must have been let down by the lack of options late in the tackle count.

Anderson failed miserably with his one dimensional game plan. Make all the excuses you want about lack of preperation but to not start the game with your best players is absurd to me.

 

[CanadianSteve]

How about a game between the Kangaroos and the rest of the world? Essentially a combined team of the best Kiwis and English players. Would that work? And could they beat the Aussies?

 

[kaon]

I didn't see comments anything like these after the Cricket world cup final. :?

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't see comments anything like these after the Cricket world cup final. :?

Why do you think there were no comments like this after Cricket World Cup...? That is, please elaborate.

 

[guten_targ]

You see the thing is that Queensland isn't Australia. They have to all come together again and play as one side albeit with a few more fine tuned combinations. Also I think you'll find alot of the changes Queensland made were forced upon them by injury.

Theres simply no excuses. New Zealand isn't going to get an origin series or get to be part of it if thats what your hoping. You seem to be ranting about how unfair it is but its the way its been for 23 years. Thats what we've got and we can only work with that.

Did you put some thought in to why the Australians weren't tired? They didn't exactly have the kiwis running around them to tire them. If the Kiwis had been able to get some composure and some momentum and made a contest of it I think you would've seen some very tired Australians in that final 20 minutes.

Agreed mate..there is no excuse..nor is there an excuse for how badly the Kiwi's played as already mentioned we were woefull..and lets not take anything away from the structured performance that was the Australian game this last Friday night.

I was as dissappointed in the effort as the next guy who watched the test but I was also expecting the result albeit not to such an extent as was on display Friday night.

All I'm saying is that the Aussies had a series to work through to refine their plays which were evident in abundance on Friday night.

As a league fan and critical of certain aspects that one would see in any game, don't you think the Kiwi's, who, if brought together once a fortnight to play against another New Zealand team?, could come out and be competitive with Australia?

If the NZRL said to the ARL, "we want the top 34 kiwi players to play a series against each over one or two games to prepare us for the upcoming test match with Australia..don't you think we would compete a lot better than we did?

Because in its current format, all this test match showed this league fan was the fact that I thought the Bronco's were playing South Sydney out there, because thats the performance one could liken it too.

 

[salivor]

Theres no excuses? But your looking for anything you can find.

Of course New Zealand would play better with a North v South type of match but its unrealistic and in no way would have the same intensity of an origin match because we just don't have 34 players that can play to that standard.

I said in my first post I think it was that this side would play better if given a chance to tour like last year. But lets face it excuses were also used last year when the kiwis drew and lost the last two tests. Crap like they were too tired after such a long season. The Warriors are now using the tour as an excuse for their pittiful year. New Zealand rugby league is up to its ears in excuses for its incompetence on the football field.

Its about time we realised we can only work with what we have. The guys in that team have played enough one off tests to know the drill and how to prepare and a few of those guys have won a one off test against Australia.

Just coming back to combinations. Theres plenty within that Kiwi team, I might even stick my neck out and say theres more well formed combinations in the kiwi team than the Australian team. Guys like Galuvao and Puletua play with each other week in week out. Utai, Talau and Vagana are all team mates. The likes of Guttenbiel and Swann play with each other every weekend and it was only 6 months ago that all these blokes toured Great Britain and France with each other playing a hell of alot of football together.

 

[guten_targ]

Theres no excuses? But your looking for anything you can find.

Of course I am..if it means a rethink of the current international situation and its current format..of course I am, but then you yourself are finding similiar ones to deny the proof in front of you so i'll give you some courtesy of one Geof Carr..head of the NRL.

"For the benefit of picking the best Australian team it's best after Origin...but that gives us too much of an unfair advantage over the opposition." said Geof Carr.

Look beyond the result mate..because all that result showed me was that we cant foot it out there in its current format..and I like your incompetence speach..true to a tee!!

Your one disgruntled fan mate..have some valid points but blind when considering your expectation is to go out there and beat the Roos in its current format..that will never happen consistently the way it is.

That isn't an excuse by the way..thats a fact..one needs only look at the results to see that..and ask David Waite about it while your at it.

 

[salivor]

Let me get this straight, your not looking for excuses but you are. Very logical of yourself.

I will make my points very clear for the last time because this is going around in circles. For the third time now, New Zealand could play a hell of alot better given an end of season tour senario to grow as a team, I haven't denied this. The problem is we didn't play well on the Great Britain tour and Kiwi fans just rolled out a whole new set of excuses.

One off tests aren't the ideal situation but instead of making the players accountable we want to blame the situation when we all agree the Kiwis barely played to NRL standard let alone international standard. Thats got nothing to do with it being a one off test, its got to do with 17 guys lacking committment and that was evident with their defence all night.

Kiwi Rugby League will never get anywhere if we sit around blaming the hand given to us. We've won one off tests and we've lost one off tests, we've won on tours and we've lost on tours. We have our fair share of success under both formats and thats not where the problem lies.

New Zealand could've quite easily have taken a leaf out of NSW and Phil Goulds book and held a couple of pre test match camps to get the players together and talk things over. It was a master stroke by Gould for his origin campaign despite the critism it took. I know Gould has the luxery of not coaching an NRL team so he can hold these camps but the NZRL have made their bed by having an NRL coach so they just have to lie on it.

The camps and the bigger squads Gould named should be something the NZRL should seriously look into in the future for one off tests. Or the other option is to put the current mob in front of a firing squad and find 17 five year olds who will actually play to their ability.

 

[guten_targ]

To true Salivor and there is a lot of substance in that if one looks at recent results including last years end of year tour.

Agree with your point of inhouse camps being the way to go also and I have to say that a camp could possibly give us a different team to that which ran out on Friday night.

Nice thought mate..and have to chuckle at the Firing squad inuendo..who knows you could be right there also..lol

 

[kaon]

I didn't see comments anything like these after the Cricket world cup final. :?

Why do you think there were no comments like this after Cricket World Cup...? That is, please elaborate.

The reason why everyone makes fun of International Rugby League is because of the fact no one can come close to Australia on a regular basis. As we all saw in the World Cup final and the test series against South Africa, cricket is in exactly the same situation but we never hear the words, “cricket is dead”.


I'm not picking on Cricket but as long as we have a magnificent Rugby League team, we should enjoy it.

 

[GBT]

No matter how you look at it - and these aren't excuses - Australia has all the advantages and unless they are prepared to facilitate a more even international scene, they will become RL pariahs.

One off tests are a nonsense. Would the ARL have allowed the Kangaroos to fly over to the UK in mid season for one match? When was the last time Australia went out of it's way to help international RL, despite the fact that this is the only developed nation where League is one of the top two sports.

It is up to both the Lions and the Kiwis to pull themselves up as far as possible, but IMO, if Australia keep looking for added advantages then the two nations where League plays, at best, second fiddle to other codes/sports will always be playing catch up.

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't see comments anything like these after the Cricket world cup final. :?

Why do you think there were no comments like this after Cricket World Cup...? That is, please elaborate.

The reason why everyone makes fun of International Rugby League is because of the fact no one can come close to Australia on a regular basis. As we all saw in the World Cup final and the test series against South Africa, cricket is in exactly the same situation but we never hear the words, “cricket is dead”.


I'm not picking on Cricket but as long as we have a magnificent Rugby League team, we should enjoy it.

I think it's a little different with Cricket. There is a definite chance that Australia can be beaten by England, South Africa, Pakistan or India (for example) on any given day. There's also a perception that one day, Australia will lose its 'unbeatable' tag in Cricket.

IMO, the gulf is much wider in international Rugby League.

I certainly do enjoy watching a magnificent RL team go around but I also want to see a stronger international scene.

I take from you said (ie using the cricket analogy) that there is a sense of temporary exaltation in Australian Rugby League and that sooner or later, the tide must turn. I hope this is the case but at the current rate, the Australia will start losing Test cricket matches 50 years before they lose their next Test Rugby League match.

I think the way to go is to have three-match Test series.
Additionally, I think the proposed tri-nations series should help and should be given high priority.

 

[GBT]

I think that's one of the problems. Aussies often correlate Rugby League results with those in cricket, there are few, if any, comparisons. Cricket, although watched by one man and his dog and relatively weaker than it was 50 years ago is still played widely throughout England. Beyond that, other nations are just as, if not more likely, to bring an end to Australia's much shorter dominance of that sport.