Is it the coach or the players?

[Vic Mackey]

Under Madge we are a chance of finally turning things around, but it’s going to take time and I expect next year to be a bottom four finish unless we jag another three top 13 players and I doubt that will happen.

From 2013-2020 Ive generally tipped us to be 12th-8th, and thats where we've ended up most years. However sadly I agree with this take. I wouldnt surprise at all if we're even bottom 2 next year. I believe Madge/hartigan are on the right track with signings like Stefano, Simpkins, Blore etc and the culture is trying to be changed. However before it comes to fruition I can certainly see us spiralling Broncos 2020 style.

The concern will be if we slide that far, yes we'll have have money to spend but it will be hard to convince anyone decent to come here, plus our guys who are actually good like Nofa, Aloiai, Twal, Luc will get over not playing finals footy and move on.

The one thing that keeps me with a little faith is that from what I hear the young kids all like Madge. Guys like Talau, Blore, Simpkins, Hoffman etc have all grown up winning SG Ball/ Matthews comps, playing Jnr Reps etc so arent scared of hard work. They are used to winning and will do what it takes to get there.

Then you hear guys like Nofa, Doueihi & Aloiai speak passionately in press conferences and its obvious they do too. To me its probably the middle rung guys who get the shits with him. I wont name them because I dont know if its true but my guess is its probably 2 high paid signings who arent getting a run, a forward linked with Manly, over wieght back from the Raiders etc that dont like being told how it is and are posioning the group.

 

[benched tiger]

We need players that want to own their performances,whether that’s good or bad, that ex Canberra centre atm is an absolute thief of salary cap dollars, every time he does a poor read in defence and lets in a try he turns around and looks at his team mates to blame them.He looks to be in complete denial of his deficiencies in defence and lack of involvement in attack, players with this mind set the WT don’t need.

 

[stryker]

I remember lots of those head scratching decisions, particularly his refusal to give those guys a chance by getting them a decent halfback to lead the side around. Prince was sensational, but Benji was injured for much of 2006 and that was the last year we had Prince before he left for the Gold Coast to give them many years of good service. Then we go from State of Origin halfback to John Morris, who's only experience as a halfback was filling in for Andrew Johns in a Semi-Final and standing next to Tim Smith when he piled on 40 try assists in a single season.

Obviously that didn't work well, so we recruited an experienced controlling halfback in Mat Head, but Sheens barely used him and the year after Sheens plays a Junior Kangaroo halfback out of position at fullback for most of the year until the side is running almost dead last. Then after getting the CEO sacked, he realises he needs to get some results on the pitch, so he moves the halfback into the halves and puts an actual fullback at fullback and lo and behold, the boys go on a five match winning streak.

Then when the fullback breaks his leg, he shows he learnt nothing from the experience, breaks up the winning halves combination and pushes the halfback back into the the unfamiliar #1 jersey and we fall out of finals contention. Then instead of building a strong halves combination and looking for a servicable fullback, we waste two years on a wife beater and when that blows up in his face, instead of persisting with a halves combination that worked, Sheens partners Marshall with EIGHT different halves partners.

The Sheenius!!!
I hated his team selections with a passion.

 

[Fordy20]

In 2012?

I was referring to 2009 when we were 15th before Sheens moved Moltzen into the halves. The side goes on a 5 game winning streak and rockets into finals contention before tragedy strikes and Shannon Gallant breaks his leg. Sheens goes back to what wasn't working and moves Moltzen back to fullback and sure enough, we miss the eight yet again.

2012 wasn't much better either with eight different halves partners.

The Sheenius!!!
I hated his team selections with a passion.

Me too. My biggest issue was that he tried to manufacture players into something they were not rather than just play to their strengths and recruit accordingly. The worst part of it is that he did this for six years when it came to the halfback position, meaning that instead of having stability in the spine and building a dynasty with a tonne of finals appearances and maybe a couple of premierships, he ends up wasting the best years of Marshall and Farah's careers as well as ruining genuine talents like Tim Moltzen and countless others.

 

[Perth Tiger]

I was referring to 2009 when we were 15th before Sheens moved Moltzen into the halves. The side goes on a 5 game winning streak and rockets into finals contention before tragedy strikes and Shannon Gallant breaks his leg. Sheens goes back to what wasn't working and moves Moltzen back to fullback and sure enough, we miss the eight yet again.

Was that when he decided to shift Farah into halfback and basically robbed him of the Dally M medal?

 

[Fordy20]

I think that might have been another year, but Farah was definitely robbed in the 2009 Dally M's. Hayne was going to be given the Dally M player of the year no matter what, but for some reason Micheal Ennis won hooker of the year despite Farah being 5 points ahead of Ennis in the rankings. Just one final kick in the teeth for Farah to go along with all the rest of abuse he copped that year.

 

[The Charlatan]

It is the club altogether. The club was borne of two clubs who hadn't won a grand final for decades. We were a two bob outfit for so long and only now are we starting to get our shit together with a unified ownership, a decent sponsorship portfolio and CoE.

However, the club has tried changing coaches without much success. So maybe it is time to back a guy who took another loser club to regular finals appearances.

 

[super_coach]

While we have a big chunk of our cap wrapped up in players that are highly unlikely to play more than a couple of games we are in trouble.

Also things like lightning speed can’t be coached. It’s going to take time and we will need more than JAC to make the finals but I can see light at the end of the tunnel

 

[Welsh RL & RU watcher]

Players. What are our training facilities like? Are we at St Gregory's or Concord most of the time?

 

[The Charlatan]

Players. What are our training facilities like? Are we at St Gregory's or Concord most of the time?

Concord, we're working out of demountables at the moment, not sure where the boys are doing training though.