"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

[Perth Red]

Nope, they wont, ive said this before, they need a grassroots club to feed players 10-30 in that squad, no club would go risk busting their salary cap importing 17 NRL players from elsewhere, look at the dogs, tigers, and titans over the years, now compare it to Manly this year, or Penrith.

Whatever idea you think how an expansion club will recruit is will not going to happen,
A great example is the storm, yes two teams fell over before them coming in, but that was their base, and going to market after that only 6 of their total squad were lured away from existing clubs, not 17, they won the GF the following year.
If a start up club already has a base you use that then sprinkle top end talent to it...
What base does Perth or Adelaide have? Do two other teams need to fall over to create them?, i know you'd love that, but the NRL doesn't want to lose any brands

Haha you think a new club is only going to sign 10 players from experienced nrl players and get the rest of the squad in from the qlnd cup? Pass me your joint, I’ll have some of what your smoking!
when Titans joined EVERY player in their first squad of 29 players was signed from other nrl clubs except one who was signed from England. Yes EVERY single one of the 28!

 

[MugaB]

Haha you think a new club is only going to sign 10 players from experienced nrl players and get the rest of the squad in from the qlnd cup? Pass me your joint, I’ll have some of what your smoking!
when Titans joined EVERY player in their first squad of 29 players was signed from other nrl clubs except one who was signed from England. Yes EVERY single one of the 28!

That worked out didn't it, 29 mercs, and probably only 3 or 4 worthy marquee signings out of that, you've proved the point that its a shit way to recruit, gathering the 29 players other clubs mostly didn't want enough to keep, 15 years later, after bottoming out for so long, and going under, only now getting its local juniors mixed with a few mercs and key marquee players to be somewhat stable, and competetive, have now been the best QLD side 2 years running.
....again do we want another Titans start up in Perth? Or do we want a handful of marquee-esk Brad Mackays, Mark Geyers, Mick potter's of the league to come over and guide the local perth players to become 1st graders, without screwing up the salary cap

 

[The Great Dane]

That worked out didn't it

07-10 was probably the most successful period in the club's history.

So yeah it worked perfectly fine until they went broke and couldn't afford to attract marquee players, but even if all their players were local juniors that wouldn't have changed because they wouldn't have been able to afford to keep the best of them at the club either.

 

[MugaB]

07-10 was probably the most successful period in the club's history.

So yeah it worked perfectly fine until they went broke and couldn't afford to attract marquee players, but even if all their players were local juniors that wouldn't have changed because they wouldn't have been able to afford to keep the best of them at the club either.

Only semis in 2009 and 2010, then wooden spoon the next season, obviously not sustainable recruitment, im fairly sure the departure of certain signings would have contributed to that, but when you sign 29 mercs from other clubs, that will happen theyll most likely move on or retire, and when you have cultivated any juniors beneath them to replace them, spooning is the result

 

[The Great Dane]

Only semis in 2009 and 2010, then wooden spoon the next season, obviously not sustainable recruitment, im fairly sure the departure of certain signings would have contributed to that, but when you sign 29 mercs from other clubs, that will happen theyll most likely move on or retire, and when you have cultivated any juniors beneath them to replace them, spooning is the result

Yes but why was it unsustainable?

Not because it's not effective, but because they went broke.

Look at the two most successful clubs of the last 20 years, Roosters and Storm, both of their teams are bought not bred for the most part, and will continue to be into the future. If the Titans hadn't have had financial struggles they could have done the same thing if they wished, which they didn't BTW, because they were already upping junior development from day one.

And as I said before, it wouldn't matter if 100% of their roster were juniors, as soon as they went broke they would have been incapable of keeping those juniors as the poachers moved in to sign up all the best talent.
Most development first teams have moved away from that strategy because the structure of the salary cap has made it borderline impossible for clubs to get value for money out of most of their junior prospects before they're off to win premierships with a competitor. Which, BTW, is one of the big problems facing the future of the game that nobody wants to talk about.

 

[MugaB]

Yes but why was it unsustainable?

Not because it's not effective, but because they went broke.

Look at the two most successful clubs of the last 20 years, Roosters and Storm, both of their teams are bought not bred for the most part, and will continue to be into the future. If the Titans hadn't have had financial struggles they could have done the same thing if they wished, which they didn't BTW, because they were already upping junior development from day one.

And as I said before, it wouldn't matter if 100% of their roster were juniors, as soon as they went broke they would have been incapable of keeping those juniors as the poachers moved in to sign up all the best talent.
Most development first teams have moved away from that strategy because the structure of the salary cap has made it borderline impossible for clubs to get value for money out of most of their junior prospects before they're off to win premierships with a competitor. Which, BTW, is one of the big problems facing the future of the game that nobody wants to talk about.

Roosters and Storm still have juniors coming thru their ranks, they aren't this years parramatta where they have bought their top 20 from other clubs, those two clubs junior systems aren't from their areas, but are still set up to behave that way, storm having the Qcup of easts and SC, and roosters from CC and other areas, but thats most clubs, the point being titans weren't doing that, and predominantly bringing 1st graders only from elsewhere, instead of using their junior catchments to bring in local grown players, who tend to be cheaper initially, and tend to want to play for their area, thus staying longer, which in turn can ease the salary cap, and this can give options to put money into recruiting actual marquee talent, not a whole bunch of mercenary players like chris walker

 

[Perth Red]

That worked out didn't it, 29 mercs, and probably only 3 or 4 worthy marquee signings out of that, you've proved the point that its a shit way to recruit, gathering the 29 players other clubs mostly didn't want enough to keep, 15 years later, after bottoming out for so long, and going under, only now getting its local juniors mixed with a few mercs and key marquee players to be somewhat stable, and competetive, have now been the best QLD side 2 years running.
....again do we want another Titans start up in Perth? Or do we want a handful of marquee-esk Brad Mackays, Mark Geyers, Mick potter's of the league to come over and guide the local perth players to become 1st graders, without screwing up the salary cap

If it worked for the Titans or not is irrelevant it’s what will happen lol. You think 20 qlnd cup players in their squad will make them competitive? Lay off the bong mate it’s frying your neurons!

 

[LeagueXIII]

Yes but why was it unsustainable?

Not because it's not effective, but because they went broke.

Look at the two most successful clubs of the last 20 years, Roosters and Storm, both of their teams are bought not bred for the most part, and will continue to be into the future. If the Titans hadn't have had financial struggles they could have done the same thing if they wished, which they didn't BTW, because they were already upping junior development from day one.

And as I said before, it wouldn't matter if 100% of their roster were juniors, as soon as they went broke they would have been incapable of keeping those juniors as the poachers moved in to sign up all the best talent.
Most development first teams have moved away from that strategy because the structure of the salary cap has made it borderline impossible for clubs to get value for money out of most of their junior prospects before they're off to win premierships with a competitor. Which, BTW, is one of the big problems facing the future of the game that nobody wants to talk about.

Doesn't the leagues grant to each club cover the salary cap now. Would have been different in the Titans early years when the game was under useless Gallop.

 

[MugaB]

If it worked for the Titans or not is irrelevant it’s what will happen lol. You think 20 qlnd cup players in their squad will make them competitive? Lay off the bong mate it’s frying your neurons!

If it worked!... geez your funny, so why the fk do we want to see it fail again in Perth, or expect it to happen in a heartland area like brisbane, you're just arguing coz you want to prove a shit point, on how one past expansion recruited and badly too and thats how you think it will certainly be the case, when its not, or won't even be the case, since they havent given out a license to the brisbane bids, and have know idea on how they each intend on recruiting...
The titans have had about 50 debutants over the past 15 seasons, for an area rich in RL clubs and juniors, its pretty shithouse form, especially since 22 debutants have been blooded in the past 5 years

 

[Perth Red]

If it worked!... geez your funny, so why the fk do we want to see it fail again in Perth, or expect it to happen in a heartland area like brisbane, you're just arguing coz you want to prove a shit point, on how past expansions recruited and thats how you think it will certainly be the case, when its not, or won't even be the case, since they havent given out a license to the brisbane bids, and have know idea on how they each intend on recruiting

Haha you honestly believe the new clubs first year squad is going to contain 20 current qlnd cup players????
they will sign 90% of the squad from current nrl players from other clubs. There is no way it will be any different Or they will get absolutely flogged every week and no new team wants that.

you’ve contradicted yourself by suggesting the roosters and Storm model has worked very well but somehow perth has to rely only on local players and wouldn’t follow those models. That makes no sense. Perth will draw the majority of its players from rl heartlands, but hopefully will also turn the current WA jnr system into a stronger pathway. We are producing nrl players now with little money, profile or local pathway so no reason to think this won’t improve long term With a top tier club in town.

 

[The Great Dane]

Doesn't the leagues grant to each club cover the salary cap now. Would have been different in the Titans early years when the game was under useless Gallop.

It didn't cover the salary cap in 10-11, IIRC.

Even if it did the Titans were in big financial trouble in those times, and there's more to attracting players than just the size of the salary you offer them.

 

[The Great Dane]

Roosters and Storm still have juniors coming thru their ranks

The Titans had local juniors coming through the ranks as well, the first handful debuted in 08, Rapana is probably the most famous.

Only a handful came through in those early years, but how could it be any other way when those pro-pathways hadn't been developed yet. The Titans would have had to develop them before the club even existed, which isn't possible...

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

It's highly possible that relocation of some teams could be the way forward as well for the mythical 'national' footprint that no code of football is yet to have in Australia (Cricket the only sport that has it).

The question then is - who? Absolutely high risk of alienating rusted on fans through that method, as seen with the Northern Eagles, Wests Tigers and St George Illawarra Dragons.

The NRL cites player depth as a concern - so why isn't a second NZ team being talked about?

Canterbury Bulldogs to Christchurch.

Let Tigers have the inner west and Macarthur, provided they rebrand as Western Sydney Tigers. We're better off having 1 strong team in that part of Sydney than 2 weak teams.

Putting the Bulldogs in Christchurch allows them to retain their brand.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Haha you think a new club is only going to sign 10 players from experienced nrl players and get the rest of the squad in from the qlnd cup? Pass me your joint, I’ll have some of what your smoking!
when Titans joined EVERY player in their first squad of 29 players was signed from other nrl clubs except one who was signed from England. Yes EVERY single one of the 28!

Didn't they also sign Matt Rogers from the ARU?

There were rumours at the time of them trying to lure Jonah Lomu to the club.

No matter where the 17th and 18th clubs are based, they will sign most of their players from other NRL clubs and the ESL.

 

[Perth Red]

Didn't they also sign Matt Rogers from the ARU?

There were rumours at the time of them trying to lure Jonah Lomu to the club.

No matter where the 17th and 18th clubs are based, they will sign most of their players from other NRL clubs and the ESL.

Point is they didn’t sign a single player to their first team squad from the second tier, and neither will Brisbane2, Mugab is delusional to think the majority will come from qlnd cup lol

 

[Perth Red]

That worked out didn't it, 29 mercs, and probably only 3 or 4 worthy marquee signings out of that, you've proved the point that its a shit way to recruit, gathering the 29 players other clubs mostly didn't want enough to keep, 15 years later, after bottoming out for so long, and going under, only now getting its local juniors mixed with a few mercs and key marquee players to be somewhat stable, and competetive, have now been the best QLD side 2 years running.
....again do we want another Titans start up in Perth? Or do we want a handful of marquee-esk Brad Mackays, Mark Geyers, Mick potter's of the league to come over and guide the local perth players to become 1st graders, without screwing up the salary cap

Regardless it is exactly what brisbane2 will do. It is what EVERY expansion team has done since 1994.
When the reds came in not only did they sign an experienced half decent first grade squad they also brought across 30 or so young and fringe players and spread them through the WARL clubs to strengthen the second tier here. Sadly we didn’t get chance to see if that would have worked. Whilst our sg ball side gets flogged regularly It is a work in progress and is about creating pathways. It has seen a number of players make nrl first grade and a lot more in second tier in qlnd cup and nsw cup. I am a strong advocate for WA partnering with png and funding an elite jnr academy over there with their best coming over to perth and learning a trade whilst putting themselves in the shop window in our sg ball side. It fixes the only weakness in our bid.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Point is they didn’t sign a single player to their first team squad from the second tier, and neither will Brisbane2, Mugab is delusional to think the majority will come from qlnd cup lol

I don't recall the Titans signing players who only played in the second tier competitions. Many of the players thwy signed were struggling to nail down a regular spot for the NRL clubs they were contracted to,hence the reason they made the jump. This is the sort of players who will gravitate to the 17th and 18th teams. Melbourne have done it successfully for 20 years.

Cowboys signed a heap of no names from the local competitions and a few fringe first graders, plus Jonathan Davies, and won just 2 games in 1995.

 

[Cactus]

already fixed it about 5 minutes before your post

welcome to today

You edited it 12 minutes after my post.

Welcome to the twilight zone.

 

[LeagueXIII]

It didn't cover the salary cap in 10-11, IIRC.

Even if it did the Titans were in big financial trouble in those times, and there's more to attracting players than just the size of the salary you offer them.

Its only been in recent years the grant has covered the cap.Once the game got its independence.

 

[Perth Red]

Wouldnt be a bad line up:

HOOKER (800K)​

Harry Grant ($800k)

A Yepoon product, Harry Grant fits the bill perfectly as one of the expansion bid's first marquee signings. The Jets, one of the prospective franchises, have already highlighted the Melbourne and Queensland Origin No. 9 as a key target.

PROP ($900K)​

Tom Flegler ($600k)

Tom Flegler is the ideal middle forward to build a pack around. Still just 22, by the time the expansion team joins the competition, he'll have at least 100 NRL games under his belt, and as his selection in Queensland Game III Origin squad this year suggests, some rep footy is also on the horizon.

Jarrod Wallace ($300k)

By 2023, Jarrod Wallace's career will be winding down but he'll boast close to 250 games of experience and the right leadership qualities to act as the talismanic, experienced forward needed in the middle of the field.

SECOND-ROW (850K)​

Tyrell Fuimaono (400k)

Every team needs a versatile backrower who's also capable of playing at centre, and that's Tyrell Fuimaono to a tee. The Dragons forward wouldn't command top dollar but has all the traits of a strong edge forward.

Josh Curran (450k)

Josh Curran's stocks have risen insurmountably this season at the Warriors. He has quickly become one of Nathan Brown's first players picked each week. Consistent yet dynamic, he represents the perfect mid-tier back-rower the expansion team could look to sign.

LOCK (500K)​

Connor Watson (500k)

Connor Watson remains one of the competition's most versatile players, which when building a roster should be a top priority. Capable of playing in the middles, in the halves, hooker and even at fullback, Watson would be an important piece in any side.

HALVES ($1.6M)​

Sam Walker (700k)

An Ipswich product, Sam Walker is a ready-made target for the next Brisbane franchise. Having taken the competition by storm in his maiden year with the Roosters, the 19-year-old is on track to be one of the best halves in the game by 2023/24.

Cameron Munster (900k)

Cameron Munster has already indicated he'd be open to exploring the idea of joining the NRL's new club, particularly if, as expected, it will be coached by Wayne Bennett. His credentials speak for themselves and you'd have to think he'd be the top-earner on their list.

CENTRE ($800K)​

Brian Kelly (400k)

On his day, Brian Kelly can be a game-breaker on an edge and one you wouldn't necessarily have to fork out top dollar to attract. Already located on the Gold Coast, Kelly appears a good recruitment target that would give the new club's backline much-needed attacking spark.

Kurt Mann (400k)

Utility value is an important trait in any player and Kurt Mann possesses that in large quantities. A Central West Queenslander, Mann looms as the ideal local player for a new Brisbane team to target, but his ability to play anywhere in the backline and even in the middle as he does with Newcastle is what makes him a great acquisition.

WING (550K)​

David Fusitu'a (300k)

Although wing is where clubs tend to allocate the least cap space, it's easy to justify spending money on a talent like David Fusitu'a. Still just 26 and carrying over 100 games of NRL experience, the Tongan international has plenty to offer.

Patrick Herbert (250k)

Patrick Herbert has proven a great value purchase during his time at the Titans and Warriors. A very strong finisher and powerful runner, what makes him even more appealing is his ability to play in the centres and at fullback.

FULLBACK (650K)​

Scott Drinkwater (650k)

Although Scott Drinkwater's preferred spot is five-eighth, he's proven equally adept in the custodian role, and has quickly become the cornerstone of the Cowboys' attack playing in both positions. A star attacking player still classed as mid-tier on the scale of the money playmakers demand, Drinkwater in a spine alongside Munster, Walker and Grant would be a mouth-watering prospect.

INTERCHANGE ($1.2M)​

Jazz Tevaga (300k)

Arguably among the most important roles in a team, the No. 14 jersey would be worn by Jazz Tevaga who can play dummy-half and the role of a ball-playing lock. Still just 25, the Samoan international would represent a good value buy.

Jacob Host (300k)

As he's shown this season for South Sydney, Jacob Host is an excellent depth forward who possesses the traits of a traditional backrower.

Josh McGuire (300k)

Josh McGuire will be well into his 30s by the time the new team comes in, but even if he was signed to a one-year deal, the former origin reps' experience would be invaluable off the bench.

Bryce Cartwright (300k)

Given the space offered to sides with the new rules and speed of play, having a versatile forward with the ball skills of a playmaker like Bryce Cartwright can be invaluable.

SALARY CAP BREAKDOWN​

TEAM VALUE: $7.85M

SALARY CAP REMAINING: $1.26M

https://www.nospam47.com/au/league/...fe-dolphins-munster/ijf1uah0edzj1plllnbgxo7hn