It's a cut-throat business

[matPORTS]

First off all, glad the team won last night, albeit if it was a very scrappy performance.

But lets face facts, this is a cut throat business. I challenge the power brokers at our club to answer the following questions:

1. How do you honestly rate our coaches performance this year? Based on the fact that our season has seemingly become a tale of two halves? I have some serious doubts at the moment about Mary's ability to get the team pumped up for the important games (and yes these final matches are the most important of our season - forget the early part of the year). What are the KPI's for 2016? A more than capable first grade coach (Geoff Toovey) is on the market now.

2. What is the long term plan for half back? We keep getting told that "oh Benji will be the player that we need when it really counts", but I'm yet to see him take a game by the scruff of the neck and be the match winner for us when it counted. I'm yet to be convinced that he will provide continued value for us in the next two seasons. In saying that, he was great for us in the first half of this year, which will go a long way toward us finishing in the final 8, and he probably did help us to avoid complete embarrassment last season. But that's all a distant memory now.

Based on last nights performance, I'd be happy with winning both our remaining games, and if we somehow get Melbourne in week 1 of the finals and go down at least fighting that would be a pass mark. My only concern then is the bar will be set and how to do we plan to improve in 2016/2017.

 

[grouch]

A more than capable first grade coach (Geoff Toovey) is on the market now.

Not going to happen, even if the club wanted to (and they don't). McGregor has a 3 year deal. Doust doesn't use Ashley Madison - we can't afford the fees. We're married to MAry in sickness and health, better or worse, and no man shall put asunder (not even Toovey)

 

[Vasilevsky]

First off all, glad the team won last night, albeit if it was a very scrappy performance.

But lets face facts, this is a cut throat business. I challenge the power brokers at our club to answer the following questions:

1. How do you honestly rate our coaches performance this year? Based on the fact that our season has seemingly become a tale of two halves? I have some serious doubts at the moment about Mary's ability to get the team pumped up for the important games (and yes these final matches are the most important of our season - forget the early part of the year). What are the KPI's for 2016? A more than capable first grade coach (Geoff Toovey) is on the market now.

2. What is the long term plan for half back? We keep getting told that "oh Benji will be the player that we need when it really counts", but I'm yet to see him take a game by the scruff of the neck and be the match winner for us when it counted. I'm yet to be convinced that he will provide continued value for us in the next two seasons. In saying that, he was great for us in the first half of this year, which will go a long way toward us finishing in the final 8, and he probably did help us to avoid complete embarrassment last season. But that's all a distant memory now.

Based on last nights performance, I'd be happy with winning both our remaining games, and if we somehow get Melbourne in week 1 of the finals and go down at least fighting that would be a pass mark. My only concern then is the bar will be set and how to do we plan to improve in 2016/2017.

Hmmmm I remember you 'analyzing' supercoach Price's performance a few years ago and coming to the conclusion that he was a good coach.

Many experts and regular punters had this team fighting for the Wooden Spoon at the start of the season. Now the top 8 seems almost certain. Mary won't be going anywhere for at least another season regardless of the club's financial position.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Hmmmm I remember you 'analyzing' supercoach Price's performance a few years ago and coming to the conclusion that he was a good coach.

If that is the case then this dude sure knows his coaches. NOT

Our halves where just fine until injury hit. The Dragons beat Bronco's and Roosters. Both on the back of a great kicking game from Benji and Widdop. At the time they were the form halves of the comp.

If Saints can play that poorly and still win then it is not a bad sign at all. Under Price they played Poorly and got smashed from memory so it is a nice change to see them win.

Lets wait till the end of the season and you can judge Mary then. Sad how after a win he can still get bagged.

 

[The Nick]

I think Geoff Toovey was a good fit for Manly because he's a Manly boy through and through. He knows the club and he knows Manly's unique culture because he's lived and breathed it. Things like the "seige mentality" that Manly does better than any other club.

That being said I think Geoff Toovey is largely untested as an NRL coach. He inherited a successful side with one of the best rosters in the league and when they have their best team on the field they have performed as expected.

I'm not convinced Geoff Toovey would be successful as a coach in charge of a rebuild at a brand new club. He's completely untested in that area. I've seen nothing to suggest he would be a better coach at the Dragons than Mary.

I also think the Manly board have made a massive error signing Barrett on as coach and allowing him to do a massive clean out. Barrett doesn't understand the culture at Manly and it seems they are throwing out every thing that has made them successful over the last 10 years.

I see the Manly club heading in the same direction on the field as Parramatta post Brian Smith.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

If that is the case then this dude sure knows his coaches. NOT

Our halves where just fine until injury hit. The Dragons beat Bronco's and Roosters. Both on the back of a great kicking game from Benji and Widdop. At the time they were the form halves of the comp.

If Saints can play that poorly and still win then it is not a bad sign at all. Under Price they played Poorly and got smashed from memory so it is a nice change to see them win.

Lets wait till the end of the season and you can judge Mary then. Sad how after a win he can still get bagged.

If Saints can play that poorly and still win then it is not a bad sign ...sorry Slip it is a bad sign...we won because The Panthers played poorer......but take your points...I think the bagging comes from we are all a little frustrated because even though we won most on here were really disappointed with our performance last night.....

 

[The Nick]

If Saints can play that poorly and still win then it is not a bad sign ...sorry Slip it is a bad sign...we won because The Panthers played poorer......but take your points...I think the bagging comes from we are all a little frustrated because even though we won most on here were really disappointed with our performance last night.....

Relatively short turnaround on the back of a 9 day "road trip" where we suffered one of our most demoralising losses only 6 days earlier. And we still got the 2 points.

There's some people on here you could throw a million dollars at and they would still whinge "why you gotta throw it so hard?".

Straight Shooter.

 

[Cagey Mac]

Relatively short turnaround on the back of a 9 day "road trip" where we suffered one of our most demoralising losses only 6 days earlier. And we still got the 2 points.

There's some people on here you could throw a million dollars at and they would still whinge "why you gotta throw it so hard?".

Straight Shooter.

Try me!

 

[Slippery Morris]

The performance was not good but they realize it which is a good thing. If they were still under Price they would be high fiving each other as if they won a Grand Final and he would be talking them up saying it was a great effort. That is the difference I like about this years team. They walked off knowing that effort will not get them far and they were lucky to win so it will fire them up for a better performance against the Titans.

 

[grouch]

I think Geoff Toovey was a good fit for Manly because he's a Manly boy through and through. He knows the club and he knows Manly's unique culture because he's lived and breathed it. Things like the "seige mentality" that Manly does better than any other club.

That being said I think Geoff Toovey is largely untested as an NRL coach. He inherited a successful side with one of the best rosters in the league and when they have their best team on the field they have performed as expected.

I'm not convinced Geoff Toovey would be successful as a coach in charge of a rebuild at a brand new club. He's completely untested in that area. I've seen nothing to suggest he would be a better coach at the Dragons than Mary.

I tend to think our club could desperately use some of that renowned Manly culture that Toovey knows so well, and, as a head coach and former long-term captain, has probably fostered more than anyone else in the organisation. A culture that he has harnessed well enough to yield regular appearances deep into September, including a GF (which they almost won, against all odds). As opposed to the (cliched but absolutely true) boys club culture that permeates the Dragons, which has led to a interminable period of mediocrity. Let's not forget that the Eagles were expected to be gutted by Hasler's defection to the Dogs, with players predicted to exit in droves. Toovey not only kept the core of the squad together longer, but developed borderline offcut talent into NRL players, players like Lawrence, Horo and Symonds. That ability is another Toovey attribute we could use.

I think he's proven plenty as an NRL coach. If our club was interested in such things.

 

[Mr Red]

The performance was not good but they realize it which is a good thing. If they were still under Price they would be high fiving each other as if they won a Grand Final and he would be talking them up saying it was a great effort. That is the difference I like about this years team. They walked off knowing that effort will not get them far and they were lucky to win so it will fire them up for a better performance against the Titans.

really mate??
i hate to say it but i dont buy into it..
i guess all those losses in a row to create a new club losing record must have hit the mark and obviously after the first 3 or 4 losses fired them up for the next week..for losses 5,6,7 etc..
injuries and scorelines aside, i am reflecting more on the lack of intensity they played with... they werent "fired up" at all to use your phrase..

 

[giboz71]

I tend to think our club could desperately use some of that renowned Manly culture that Toovey knows so well, and, as a head coach and former long-term captain, has probably fostered more than anyone else in the organisation. A culture that he has harnessed well enough to yield regular appearances deep into September, including a GF (which they almost won, against all odds). As opposed to the (cliched but absolutely true) boys club culture that permeates the Dragons, which has led to a interminable period of mediocrity. Let's not forget that the Eagles were expected to be gutted by Hasler's defection to the Dogs, with players predicted to exit in droves. Toovey not only kept the core of the squad together longer, but developed borderline offcut talent into NRL players, players like Lawrence, Horo and Symonds. That ability is another Toovey attribute we could use.

I think he's proven plenty as an NRL coach. If our club was interested in such things.

The resurgence of Manly has been quite incredible really. They've played every game the last 4 weeks like it's their grand final and all their gun players have stepped up. They haven't allowed themselves to be beaten.

Guess we need to give a lot of credit to Toovey, he hasn't cashed it in knowing he's been sacked. He's shown the same intensity as he always has and his team have responded.

We're gonna need that level of fire to make the semis. It wasn't entirely evident last night.

 

[The Nick]

I tend to think our club could desperately use some of that renowned Manly culture that Toovey knows so well, and, as a head coach and former long-term captain, has probably fostered more than anyone else in the organisation. A culture that he has harnessed well enough to yield regular appearances deep into September, including a GF (which they almost won, against all odds). As opposed to the (cliched but absolutely true) boys club culture that permeates the Dragons, which has led to a interminable period of mediocrity. Let's not forget that the Eagles were expected to be gutted by Hasler's defection to the Dogs, with players predicted to exit in droves. Toovey not only kept the core of the squad together longer, but developed borderline offcut talent into NRL players, players like Lawrence, Horo and Symonds. That ability is another Toovey attribute we could use.

I think he's proven plenty as an NRL coach. If our club was interested in such things.

I guess you missed my point that what worked so well for them won't necessarily work for us. Bennett at Newcastle, for example.

You've stated previously you wish we weren't the "work experience" club yet you want us to be the one that finds out whether Toovey can cut it outside of Manly?

Eagles were expected to be gutted by Hasler's defection to the Dogs, with players predicted to exit in droves.

Hodgkinson, She-Rex, Hopoate, G. Stewart, Watmough, Lussick, Foran and nearly DCE if they didn't break the bank to get him to backflip. Not to mention Matai asking several times for a release.

but developed borderline offcut talent into NRL players, players like Lawrence, Horo and Symonds.

Lawrence established himself as a regular first grade player at the Titans (and probably would have done it earlier at the Raiders if he hadn't quit to pursue a career outside of footy).

Horo established himself as a regular first grader at the Eels (28 games) and knocked back interest from a host of clubs the first time he came off contract in 2010.

Symonds had already played 27 first grade games for the Roosters and debuted for City Country prior to being signed to Manly.

 

[Mr Red]

Manly have that "everyone hates us under siege" mentality that forms a key part of the culture there...
same as QLD and their "we are the underdog" culture..and the "queenslander" war cry .
the players use that to inspire them when the going gets tough....they all rally..

Dragons need to find something they can all use to bond together and make them want to play for each other... use that common hatred of something to form a culture around..

i guess this is what "the nick" is alluding to?

i dont believe we have this... we really dont have anything we can use to fire us up.. spearheaded by Mr Nice guy Ben Creagh...

 

[giboz71]

Manly have that "everyone hates us under siege" mentality that forms a key part of the culture there...
same as QLD and their "we are the underdog" culture..and the "queenslander" war cry .
the players use that to inspire them when the going gets tough....they all rally..

Dragons need to find something they can all use to bond together and make them want to play for each other... use that common hatred of something to form a culture around..

i guess this is what "the nick" is trying to say?

i dont believe we have this... we really dont have anything we can use to fire us up.. spearheaded by Mr Nice guy Ben Creagh...

We're a hairs breath from missing the semis for the 4th consecutive year. Hasn't happened since the late 80's.

If that doesn't fire them up, nothing will.

 

[grouch]

I guess you missed my point that what worked so well for them won't necessarily work for us. Bennett at Newcastle, for example.

Bennett took them one game from a GF in 2013. I'd take that kind of apparent failure.

You've stated previously you wish we weren't the "work experience" club yet you want us to be the one that finds out whether Toovey can cut it outside of Manly?

Please. He's coached for 4 seasons in the NRL, and prior to that was an assistant to Hasler, at one of the most consistently successful clubs in the game. Hardly the same planet in terms of work experience as the types our club typically hires.

Hodgkinson, She-Rex, Hopoate, G. Stewart, Watmough, Lussick, Foran and nearly DCE if they didn't break the bank to get him to backflip. Not to mention Matai asking several times for a release.

Hodkinson was prior. Hoppa went Mormon. Lussick meh. The rest were at least 3 years after Hasler's departure and can be be deemed as cap-related attrition rather than a mass coach-led exodus.

Lawrence established himself as a regular first grade player at the Titans (and probably would have done it earlier at the Raiders if he hadn't quit to pursue a career outside of footy).

Established? Regular? He'd played 18 games in 2 season and started exactly ONE. 27 in his first year with Manly - all starting (incl. grand final)

Horo established himself as a regular first grader at the Eels (28 games) and knocked back interest from a host of clubs the first time he came off contract in 2010.

Horo was a reserve grader or benchy at best in his final season at parra (they won the spoon). Also 27 starting games in his first year at Manly (including the grand final)

Symonds had already played 27 first grade games for the Roosters and debuted for City Country prior to being signed to Manly.

Spread across 4 seasons. Played around 60 games in 3 seasons since

 

[Vasilevsky]

Bennett took them one game from a GF in 2013. I'd take that kind of apparent failure.

And missed the finals for the other two years despite having several high profile recruits and left them in a mess with a severely aging squad. I wouldn't take such an abysmal failure.

 

[Mr Red]

We're a hairs breath from missing the semis for the 4th consecutive year. Hasn't happened since the late 80's.

If that doesn't fire them up, nothing will.

yeah i agree you would hope so... but the question remains is anyone within the coaching staff or playing group even aware of this stat... let alone use it to fire them up? :?

 

[grouch]

And missed the finals for the other two years despite having several high profile recruits and left them in a mess with a severely aging squad. I wouldn't take such an abysmal failure.

They were on the way up when the players stopped getting paid and then they suffered the morale-crushing experience of having a teammate paralysed. But feel free to overlook that and blanket it a failure. Homie.

LOL

 

[BennyV]

I like the idea is Toovey, but won't happen.

To be honest, I dont think Mary is the issue. He seems to be a decent leader considering us his first year as coach, he had brought the playing group together and has then working hard fire each other. Yes hes made some horrid mistakes but if we make the 8,he gets a pass mark, all things considered.

Problem is, the guy doesn't have a clue how to coach an attacking structure. This is even more of an issue when we have an inferior attacking coach in Millward (part of the boys club). Between him and Hornby/Young, there are no fresh ideas as to how to use the attacking weapons in our team.

We get an assistant coach under Mary that has a tactical mind, experience in other systems and knowledge of how to drill structures into the team,and we will shine next year.