What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

James Tamou

Luke Bowden

First Grade
Messages
6,913
"Yeah, I’m not trying to convince anyone, particularly you pair."

Seems to be a dig at me and MX. Though the thing people here don't know is I was diagnosed as "severe" end of the spectrum with social anxiety disorder so things get hard to tell some days.

It’s hardly a dig, I’m only saying that I wouldn’t bother trying to change your mind on a subject.
 

Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,856
Those figures fall apart extremely quickly when:

Dylan Edwards and Peter Wallace wouldn't be on $700k between them. Nor is Nathan Cleary on anywhere near that yet. Your $1m for a star spine player would fit them all in right now or go very close to it. Obviously not on Clearys next contract. But for now it would.

Add in Maloney and our spines only $1.8m. Even rounding up to $2m thats $1.1m under your figures for a spine.

Set aside the positions players are in.

Our highest paid player is Maloney. Supposedly on ~$850k

Tamou is our next highest supposedly on $750k

Merrin is next on $650ish.

That's our 3 highest paid players earning $2.25m. Our next players would have been Moylan and Carty. But they're gone and 100% Off the books.

Between our 3 highest paid players and 10 minimum wage players. That's roughly 3.25m.

Leaving 17 players left and $6.15m to use. The average for that would be $361k.

The likes of Blake, Edwards, Kikau etc. Shouldnt be on near that. And Gus has already confirmed he wouldnt dare pay that much for a winger.

Obviously once Cleary goes up ~$1m a season need to lose more depth. Which is why Peachey is already released and Mansours unlikely to stay.

But the $750k Tamou is supposedly on would definitely be better used elsewhere as you said.

Dunno how anyone thinks Wallace could be on big money. He was unwanted when we got him. We were tallking him into retirement before he last re-signed.
mx you aren't really grasping what I'm saying here. I am hypothesising Gus will be aiming to get to the figures I'm showing. I'm not saying that is what they are. I'm saying that this is probably a template for how to balance a squad. Given the people on here are telling you that they have heard through the grapevine it is 450k I thought I would see whether it made sense. It does. If you have a better template to balance a first grade squad, please put it forward. I'm not saying mine is perfect, I'm just trying to make sense of what you say. $750k.

Your hypothesis of $750k doesn't add up. For a start it would have been over 10%of our 2016 cap at a time when we still had Cartwright, Leota and Moylan. If you assume it gets back ended, it gets worse in 2018. Your figure is $3m/4.

Stepback. Your hypothesis requires Tamou to have 10% of the 2016 cap. It requires Gus to be using an entirely different template to the one I have suggested. I'm OK with that, but I struggle to see how any prop is going to get $750k if you follow Gus's model of spine first, forwards second. Thirdly your hypothesis requires Gus to be stupid. I think when it comes to cap management he and uncle Nick Politis wrote the salary cap's books second edition. Wayne Bennett wrote the books first edition.

Ergo, Tamou is not on $750k.
 
Last edited:

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,006
mx you aren't really grasping what I'm saying here. I am hypothesising Gus will be aiming to get to the figures I'm showing. I'm not saying that is what they are. I'm saying that this is probably a template for how to balance a squad. Given the people on here are telling you that they have heard through the grapevine it is 450k I thought I would see whether it made sense. It does. If you have a better template to balance a first grade squad, please put it forward. I'm not saying mine is perfect, I'm just trying to make sense of what you say. $750k.

Your hypothesis of $750k doesn't add up. For a start it would have been over 10%of our 2016 cap at a time when we still had Cartwright, Leota and Moylan. If you assume it gets back ended, it gets worse in 2018. Your figure is $3m/4.

Stepback. Your hypothesis requires Tamou to have 10% of the 2016 cap. It requires Gus to be using an entirely different template to the one I have suggested. I'm OK with that, but I struggle to see how any prop is going to get $750k if you follow Gus's model of spine first, forwards second. Thirdly your hypothesis requires Gus to be stupid. I think when it comes to cap management he and uncle Nick Politis wrote the salary cap's books second edition. Wayne Bennett wrote the books first edition.

Ergo, Tamou is not on $750k.
You think he's not on $750k a season because it would be stupid to have him on that. (Which we sll agree it would be stupid)

That doesnt mean he's not on that though. Since long before he ever signed with us he was reported as tabling $3m/4year deals in Sydney and that the Cowboys could only afford a $2.4m / 4 year deal.

If Gus desperately wants someone. He fights hard to get them he gets obsessed with getting them. I can easily see his ego getting in the way of logic. Has happened before.

$750k would be in the right ballpark. Everyone thought we were a world class prop away from being a premiership threat. Maybe we were. At the time we though Tamou was the final piece of the puzzle (this year its Maloney). If a team thinks one player can give them the premiership. No amount is too much.

It seems we all agree that it would be stupid to pay Tamou that much money. The difference is you don't believe Gus is that stupid. While I can see him doing that.

Looking at the player released early since we signed Tamou. It certainly adds weight to that.

Peta Hiku
TMM
Leilani Latu
Mitch Rein
Bryce Cartwright
Matt Moylan

Peachey is already released for 2019.
Mansour appears to be gone.

Thats not simply to cover payrises to off contract players. These guys were under contract. But we couldnt fit them in. We were working toward or hoping for the $10.1m cap while it ended up bding $9.1m. We had to be. I have no source for that. But that million missing explains a lot of what has happened since and why we hzvent gained cap space after losing some of our biggest stars.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
So a $7m cap. We had 40% used up on Merrin, Tamou, Bryce and Moylan :joy::joy:...

I am glad some people don't run the club
 

Abacus

Juniors
Messages
2,093
Peta Hiku
TMM
Leilani Latu
Mitch Rein
Bryce Cartwright
Matt Moylan

Hiku - surplus to requirements, had injuries and from memory was potentially linked to Manly's spot fixing investigations;
TMM - not sure why we released him. Perhaps punted on Edwards at FB as better option than TMM at 5/8.
Latu - released following Jimmy giving the game away re TPA.
Rein - was with us on minimal dollars and getting limited opportunity given Wallace, Katoa and now Egan.
Bryce - reasons have been done ad nauseum (please don't make me go back there :eek:)
Moylan - refer to Bryce.

My point being that I'm not sure any of these are directly attributable to Tamou.

I tend to agree Tamou would be in the 600k - 750k range, although not sure what amounts are TPA and what is on the cap. There were definitely more clubs than ours interested at the time.

Would not surprise me if Gus paid a bit of a premium as at the time of signing our pack was looking very young and inexperienced. We lacked any sort of experienced leadership (i.e. finals, origin, premiership), had young halves and backs and Gus probably saw Tamou as someone to lead in the trenches.

I don't think anyone disputes 2017 was not what we expected from Tamou. However, 2018 is 2 games old and seems a bit early to be making snap judgements on a players value for money. Particularly where that player's metres can be influenced through minutes played and the flow of possession.

Is Tamou worth the cash? If we win a comp in the next couple of years - absolutely! It may also be similar to when the club brought blokes like Chris Mortimer to the club in the late 80s. He wasn't here to win the comp for the club but instead to set the level of professionalism (and in those days, true aggression) for the younger guys coming through that won the 1991 comp.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Hiku - surplus to requirements, had injuries and from memory was potentially linked to Manly's spot fixing investigations;
TMM - not sure why we released him. Perhaps punted on Edwards at FB as better option than TMM at 5/8.
Latu - released following Jimmy giving the game away re TPA.
Rein - was with us on minimal dollars and getting limited opportunity given Wallace, Katoa and now Egan.
Bryce - reasons have been done ad nauseum (please don't make me go back there :eek:)
Moylan - refer to Bryce.

My point being that I'm not sure any of these are directly attributable to Tamou.

I tend to agree Tamou would be in the 600k - 750k range, although not sure what amounts are TPA and what is on the cap. There were definitely more clubs than ours interested at the time.

Would not surprise me if Gus paid a bit of a premium as at the time of signing our pack was looking very young and inexperienced. We lacked any sort of experienced leadership (i.e. finals, origin, premiership), had young halves and backs and Gus probably saw Tamou as someone to lead in the trenches.

I don't think anyone disputes 2017 was not what we expected from Tamou. However, 2018 is 2 games old and seems a bit early to be making snap judgements on a players value for money. Particularly where that player's metres can be influenced through minutes played and the flow of possession.

Is Tamou worth the cash? If we win a comp in the next couple of years - absolutely! It may also be similar to when the club brought blokes like Chris Mortimer to the club in the late 80s. He wasn't here to win the comp for the club but instead to set the level of professionalism (and in those days, true aggression) for the younger guys coming through that won the 1991 comp.

On the cap amount is the key. Who cares what he gets off the cap really
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,006
So a $7m cap. We had 40% used up on Merrin, Tamou, Bryce and Moylan :joy::joy:...

I am glad some people don't run the club

Its $2.4m. Carty and Moylan had big TPAs. Out of a $7m cap thats what Storm spent on 3 players and that cap was always going to go up massively.

Moylan = $600k + TPAs
Carty = $500k + TPAs
Mez = $550k
Tamou = $750k

We had to shed 2 of these highly paid players and havent signed anyone. So obviously their math didnt work.

And they also knew s cap increase was coming. The contracts were signed and extended with a huge increase in mind.

Edit
Infact we shed heaps of players and until Carty didnt gain cap space. So obviously we had spent more than we should have.
 
Last edited:

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,006
2017 salary cap is $7m
2018 salary cap is $9.4m

We sign James Maloney and Tyrone Philips
We lose Matt Moylan, Bryce Cartwright, Lelani Latu, Mitch Rein, Peta Hiku, Te Maire Martin and Sitaleki Akauolo from our 2017 top 25.

We had a $2.4m increase to the cap. Lost 7 top 25 players. Of which only one or two were minimum wage.

Yet you find it hard to believe we signed James Tamou on overs?

You think that extra $4m or so is purely on upgrades? Deadset.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
2017 salary cap is $7m
2018 salary cap is $9.4m

We sign James Maloney and Tyrone Philips
We lose Matt Moylan, Bryce Cartwright, Lelani Latu, Mitch Rein, Peta Hiku, Te Maire Martin and Sitaleki Akauolo from our 2017 top 25.

We had a $2.4m increase to the cap. Lost 7 top 25 players. Of which only one or two were minimum wage.

Yet you find it hard to believe we signed James Tamou on overs?

You think that extra $4m or so is purely on upgrades? Deadset.

This does make sense. We've let go more than we've signed and a bunch are guaranteed to be on minimum as they are top 30 fill ins that play ISP every week. How many are on that minimum is the question.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
This does make sense. We've let go more than we've signed and a bunch are guaranteed to be on minimum as they are top 30 fill ins that play ISP every week. How many are on that minimum is the question.

No CHN and May weren't part of our FT squad and now are. Minimum wage went up and did squad numbers. It is not all external signings
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,006
This does make sense. We've let go more than we've signed and a bunch are guaranteed to be on minimum as they are top 30 fill ins that play ISP every week. How many are on that minimum is the question.
I think alot of our issue was expecting the cap to be $10.1m before allowances instead of the $9.1m it was.

Theres simply no way we can have $4m to $4.5m freed up after player releases and a cap increase used all up entirely on what we had without Tamou being on or near thd reported $750k. Or Maloney the reported $850k.

Although if Maloney fires... $850k for a decent half is actually good. Cleary without half the resume will be only atleast 50% more than that you would think.

Thankfully we should only overlap the two for a year. If we keep Cleary that is.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
No CHN and May weren't part of our FT squad and now are. Minimum wage went up and did squad numbers. It is not all external signings

Yeah you are kind of making my point. These guys wouldn't be on big contracts yet.

I think alot of our issue was expecting the cap to be $10.1m before allowances instead of the $9.1m it was.

Theres simply no way we can have $4m to $4.5m freed up after player releases and a cap increase used all up entirely on what we had without Tamou being on or near thd reported $750k. Or Maloney the reported $850k.

Although if Maloney fires... $850k for a decent half is actually good. Cleary without half the resume will be only atleast 50% more than that you would think.

Thankfully we should only overlap the two for a year. If we keep Cleary that is.

Yeah there is surely 1 or 2 big contracts.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Yeah you are kind of making my point. These guys wouldn't be on big contracts yet.



Yeah there is surely 1 or 2 big contracts.

Even $200k is double minimum wage.

Everyone except for RCG has re-signed since Tamou signed. that takes from the 'spare' money. 5 extra players at $100k also.
 

Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,856
Abacus is spot on here. Tamou signed in 2016, the releases talked about would not have been on the cards then because nobody knew what Cartwright or Moylan were going to do, or whether Peachey was going to have a breakout year (he didn't) or whether Latu finally shows he is a top class prop (he isn't so far) or what would happen to some of our youngsters like Edwards. How could Gus possibly plan what happened so he could accommodate Tamou at $750k and an increase for Cleary?

James Tamou gets crap poured on him on here based purely on a number pulled out of somebody's arse. Meanwhile, people "who know people" say actually its more like $450k, any reasonable analysis of cap management points to about $450k. I have no doubt he has TPA's and a few other things, not included on the cap to top up his package and it would be maybe $550k, but again, I'm guessing. I'm going to judge him based on what he does, not on whether he is good value for money because nobody has a clue what that value is. He is out there getting his head bashed in every week, spilling blood for the club. He doesn't deserve the scorn just because somebody made a number up.

BTW, the cap covers 30 players not 25.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Abacus is spot on here. Tamou signed in 2016, the releases talked about would not have been on the cards then because nobody knew what Cartwright or Moylan were going to do, or whether Peachey was going to have a breakout year (he didn't) or whether Latu finally shows he is a top class prop (he isn't so far) or what would happen to some of our youngsters like Edwards. How could Gus possibly plan what happened so he could accommodate Tamou at $750k and an increase for Cleary?

James Tamou gets crap poured on him on here based purely on a number pulled out of somebody's arse. Meanwhile, people "who know people" say actually its more like $450k, any reasonable analysis of cap management points to about $450k. I have no doubt he has TPA's and a few other things, not included on the cap to top up his package and it would be maybe $550k, but again, I'm guessing. I'm going to judge him based on what he does, not on whether he is good value for money because nobody has a clue what that value is. He is out there getting his head bashed in every week, spilling blood for the club. He doesn't deserve the scorn just because somebody made a number up.

BTW, the cap covers 30 players not 25.

Minimum wage also gone up to $100k
 

Latest posts

Top