Jeffles RLWC Proposal

[Misty Bee]

Great topic, Jeffles.

Firstly, there is nopoint having a RWC unless there are AT LEAST 12 teams.

Reasoning:

The first 3 teams will be Australia, GB and NZ. The next 3 will be Wales, France and PNG. The next 5 will consist of Fiji, Scotland, Ireland, Western Samoa and one other - most likely Cook Islands.

Even then, that leaves JUST 1 position for Russia, Lebanon, USA, Tonga, Morocco, Italy, Holland and whoever else to fight over. Given that the best shot in the arm that this game has recieved globally since Super Elague was the recent Russia v USA test eries, countries such as this MUSTbe given a reasonable chance at oing.

I would prefer a 16 team comp, with the tiop 3 nations given exemptions into the quarter finals.

Secondly, PNG MUST host their own games
Money, money money. What a lame excuse for taking a game off PNG? How much money are they going to make if they play in Rockhampton or Rotorua? Let 'em play in Mt Hagen, Port Moresby, Wewak and draw 15 000 to the game. Remember, when they made the finals of the last RWC, they declared a national holiday. It is the most passionate nation in the RL world, and it deserves a world cup.

Imagine for a second what would happen up there if PNG upset GB at Mt Hagen in a semi final? Can't happen? Well, PNG have already beaten GB on home soil. And they have made it to a global cup final (SUper League 9's

Fnially, the RLWC should be held to suit RL, airrespective of what other sports are doing!

Look,if our 2000 WC was held simultaneously with this RYWC, no one could criticise ours because of big scores. Proper promotion would see games well attended throughout Australia, NZ and PNG. Hell, the centenary of RL in Australia NEEDS to be cel;ebrated to the max What a legacy we have! Forget Yqawnion. Seeing the Wallabies flop again will inspire no one, especiallyu if it is OS.

I believe I have a better plan to avoid the inevitable lopsided contests, but not here. I will post it elsewhere.

 

[Big Bunny]

Secondly, PNG MUST host their own games
Money, money money. What a lame excuse for taking a game off PNG? How much money are they going to make if they play in Rockhampton or Rotorua? Let 'em play in Mt Hagen, Port Moresby, Wewak and draw 15 000 to the game. Remember, when they made the finals of the last RWC, they declared a national holiday. It is the most passionate nation in the RL world, and it deserves a world cup.

It's not a lame excuse at all. First of all, you are the only bloke here suggesting that games would be played in Rockhampton. Do you honestly advocate such a poor move or was it only a deceitful attempt to back up your arguement?

Your choice of venues in PNG is rather poor as well, considering that the country only has one venue capable of holding 13,000 fans when safety precautions are enforced. Wewak? Jeez, you could have that regions entire population and you would still need another 5000 fans to even consider equalling a crowd at Townsville.

So, not only would you fly teams into PNG, but also pay for internal air travel between the provinces, charge a minimal entry fee so that people can actually afford to see the games, wonder how you are going to charge them when most grounds don't have fences and then try and say the huge debt racked up is going to benefit the future of the PNGRFL, not to mention the rest of the RL world?

Internationals in PNG generally attract a K15 entry fee. One Kina = 43c AU. Ground security is hefty, travel to and from the imaginary other stadiums would be costly as well. All for what? The PNG Government certainly don't have the money to be throwing at the event over health and education. Making 13,000 fans happy for 2-3 games in one year, helping to cut into the success of the World Cup and then seeing that PNG's longterm future is endangered and you call what I said lame? Right..

 

[JOBPS]

I also can't see Sky, Fox or BBC (whoever has TV rights) wanting to set up in three different nations to show the live games, Australia and New Zealand wouldn't be too bad, all the world's major broadcasters have equipment readily available to them there, however they do not in PNG. Playing games in PNG would create less revenue in TV deals. That money alone would do more good than the slight chance of PNG making a profit from playing their pool games at home.

 

[dimitri]

if it was viable i think a game or 2 in png would be great

but unfortunately i dont think it would be


so instead png games would probably be played in northern aus, emerging states or other regional areas


as long as png can get tv coverage of their games i think they would go crazy anyway

 

[Misty Bee]

Well, if we are only going to hold word cup games in Australia and NZ, then why bother inviting the rest of the develioping nations? PNG won't draw a big crowd in Oz (save for maybe some settlements in FNQ with a significant PNG population.)

So what exactly is the point of your world cup?

I sugest that is PNG is off limits becaus e the gate wouldn't be big and Poxtel couldn't be bothered going there, then lets also ditch Suva, Nadi, Apia, and any other home base for a Pacific nation that isn't Oz or NZ.

How the hell do you promote the game in PNG by DENYING then games?

Don't suggest that in the current state of the Rugby League world, that a World Cup with so many developing nations will be a profit making exercise. if Profit is your motive, lets have a Tri series between Oz, GB and NZ, and forget the rest of the world.

 

[dimitri]

profit is not the motive but without profits we cant continue to have world cups


if the world cup is promoted and tickets are sold well in advance similar to the yawn yawn then people will buy them


people bought tickets to see namibi and romania etc etc

and the png league team are much better than them

 

[Jeffles]

Profit is a motive. Profit and exposure. This can happen in Rugby League. The 1995 World Cup was testamentary to that as have been the World Sevens in the past.

Big Bunny is right (I find myself saying that a lot). If it was a toss up between making only a bit of kina for Kumuls in their stadiums (Lloyd Robson is the biggest at 14,000) or getting a similar or larger crowd to pay dollars (stronger than the kina) in say Townsville, where you could beam it live into PNG in prime time and give them a grant fom the revenue at the end of the day, then I say play 'em in Aust. You'll get more money and pretty much the same exposure. The same goes for other Pacific nations.

As JOPBS said, it is practical to limit the venues for the purposes of broadcasting. It is also good for publicity in the host nations. If Australia shared the RUWC with NZ, giving up say a third of all matches, the publiity for the sport ouldn't nearly be as big as it is now in Australia. It would be easier to make up the publicity in PNG with live TV and a decent grant to the PNGRFL.

It is unreasonable to expect crowds for a RLWC to be comparable to a RUWC. Look at all the tourists and expats here that have come out of the woodwork. The marketing brains and the reputation of international RL prevents that. But it is reasobnable maybe to get 5 figure crowds to all matches, maybe 15,000 for Lebanon (if they qualify) 25,000 average for Aust, NZ and GB matches. Not to mention semis and finals.

As for team numbers, 8-10 is appropriate. Like the RLIF has said about the Tri-Nations, we need to consolidate the strengths. The same applies for the RLWC. There is no point picking a number like 12 beause it sounds good and global if it means sacrificing the integrity of the competition with lopsided fixtures everyday of the week. It appears some of you have not learned your lessons from the 2000 tournament.

 

[Misanthrope]

I'd the lessons we learnt from the 2000 WC are:
- Don't hold a World Cup in the UK
- The weather can be a bitch
- You need to advertise a WC

Whilst I don't think sixteen is the ideal number for competition's sake, I also think that ten does nothing for the developing nations. Money'll go their way, but they'll still have no experience at the top level. If you run a ten team comp, then you need an equally large or larger emerging nations comp beneath it.

Chris

 

[Big Bunny]

Well, if we are only going to hold word cup games in Australia and NZ, then why bother inviting the rest of the develioping nations? PNG won't draw a big crowd in Oz (save for maybe some settlements in FNQ with a significant PNG population.)

So what exactly is the point of your world cup?

I sugest that is PNG is off limits becaus e the gate wouldn't be big and Poxtel couldn't be bothered going there, then lets also ditch Suva, Nadi, Apia, and any other home base for a Pacific nation that isn't Oz or NZ.

How the hell do you promote the game in PNG by DENYING then games?

Don't suggest that in the current state of the Rugby League world, that a World Cup with so many developing nations will be a profit making exercise. if Profit is your motive, lets have a Tri series between Oz, GB and NZ, and forget the rest of the world.

2000 - Australia vs. PNG @ Dairy Farmers Stadium, Townsville. Crowd: approx 21,000. This, with a minimal amount of advertising and one year after the Superleague war ended. A game that makes a profit, just as any game would in one of the World Cup models that I subscribe to.

The name of the game is not promoting the game in PNG for 3 weeks, but injecting an amount of money over 4 or more years until the next World Cup, enabling them to build the game there at a steady rate, not leaving them broke and with a lack of international fixtures for the next 4 years.

I will suggest that a World Cup would make a profit and I have no doubt that smaller nations would add to it. If you don't see the commecial sustainability then that is your own failing. With proper marketing anything can be sold, rugby league only lacks the self belief and advertising budget, both of which will continue to grow under the leadership of people like Richard Lewis.

I'm denying PNG a small number of games in my thinking in order that they can be rewarded a full schedule over a number of years. Don't get carried away in blowing that all out of proportion by suggesting that I'm looking to kill rugby league in the Pacific. If you truly believe that then you aren't absorbing any of the points I have made.

 

[JOBPS]

First of all, this World Cup will not be staged unless we can run it and make a big profit. The best way to make profit would be to have a tri-nations but that wouldn't do anything for the rest of the rugby world. The emerging nations must be included for so many different reasons:

The supporters love the underdogs
It'll develop their players
It'll put their players in the shop window for NRL and Super League
the list goes on...

We need to advertise games till people get bored of seeing the adverts. But we also need to make sure the advertising that is done is worthwhile and gives up the biggest profit possible.

(Sorry to keep going on about profit, can you tell I'm a business student?)

 

[ibeme]

Based on what I've read in this thread, a world cup is definately a viable option. 2007 is a long time away, but I think an idea that I proposed in a thread that I created could come into play to fill the gap between now and then - world rugby league carnival.

This could be an event that all nations are invited to. It may be able to have some involvement with the tri-nations, and would basically involve a carnival atmosphere in which teams not only play, they attend coaching clinics with some of the top coaches. It could have charity events, celebrity matches or something like that? Basically the emphasis would be on participation and developing the weaker nations. It really needs to be given a lot more thought to come up with a viable format. TEams' form could be monitored throughout the carnival to guage their improvement under expert coaching. The carrot for the weaker nations would be a spot in the world cup.

I think it would be necessary to select a regional centre/s in Australia in which to hold it. I think that regional centres will be a key part in getting crowds to the world cup also.

On the issue of having a game in PNG for the world cup, could a viable compromise be a live site in PNG? A big screen in one of the stadiums there with other events/activities.

These are just thoughts that I've had. I think the carnival could go a long way to developing strength for the world cup, because a lot of work is going to be needed to develop the strength among the developing nations in the lead up to the world cup

 

[Mark Rudd]

To save possible riduclue from poeple(mainly Union), maybe dont call it a "World Cup".

Maybe just "Nations Cup" or something? International Nations Cup? International Rugby League Nations Cup? World of Rugby League Cup?



Anything but World Cup I think.

 

[dimitri]

international rugby league nations cup sounds ok

but that maybe harder to get sponsors

 

[yakstorm]

Big Bunny is right, there is far more benefit to have PNG games in Australia, simply just for the fact that a crowd of 13,000 at a ground in Australia will generate more revenue for the PNGRFL than the 3 matches would.

One thing I've never understood about the ARL, is it has shown time and time again matches held in the likes of Parkes, Townsville, Newcastle and so on have little to no trouble drawing crowds, yet they are so against internationals.

Seriously if you were considering taking an international match outside of Australia and NZ, the only feasible other area would be New Calendonia, perhaps an idea for a French game? But even still a remote one.

Go for 10 - 12 sides, keep the home nations seperate, and get everyone to put on their original RL kits as part of the 'historical' component.

 

[dimitri]

One thing I've never understood about the ARL, is it has shown time and time again matches held in the likes of Parkes, Townsville, Newcastle and so on have little to no trouble drawing crowds, yet they are so against internationals.

Seriously if you were considering taking an international match outside of Australia and NZ, the only feasible other area would be New Calendonia, perhaps an idea for a French game? But even still a remote one.

Go for 10 - 12 sides, keep the home nations seperate, and get everyone to put on their original RL kits as part of the 'historical' component.

i totally agree

but keep it at 12 teams

 

[Big Bunny]

Yakstorm, I had never considered New Caledonia for pool matches but I do think your idea is a viable one, provided that they have a stadium large enough. I had a look around and couldn't find anything, other than that they have been able to get crowds of 10,000 for boxing and the territories main race day attracts around 7000. If they do have a large enough stadium then the idea appears sound financially as well. It would be a once in a lifetime event for the region and unlike PNG these people could afford the high prices associated with it. I read today that the Aus v NZ union semi is going to make something like $40 million. No less than 50% of those figures should be what the league wants from what really is a market that is out there, but remains unchallenged by the ARL's marketing stuff-ups.

Mark, rugby union would want to put the boot into rugby league regardless of what we do. I think that changing the name to anything else would just give them more ammo to take a shot at us. Besides, this will be our.. what.. 11th, 12th World Cup? They are still going through their fourth and according to the UK Times, rather than the 1 billion audience that the ARU claimed they would get for the opening ceremony, they got less than 10 million. So much for their being a world game.

ibeme, I do like the idea of a RL carnival. The best part about it is that there are so many different ideas that can go into it, easily changing for each time it is held and making it better. I don't know about all nations but a number of them would be a good start. How it might affect the tri-series would be a big question though.

 

[Jeffles]

international rugby league nations cup sounds ok

Too unnecessarily long.

A New Caledonia match would be nice (strong currency) but the biggest (only) stadium they use has a 2000 capacity or thereabouts. Aust and NZ would be keeping it simple for a RLWC. But a Fench exhibition match against Combined Pacific Islands (no PNG) would be a real goer.

As for Union WC revenue the $40 million is just the ARU cut. The total profit is upwards of $100 million I think. RLWC profit of $20 million (TV money plus gates and sponsors) is achievable. Surely you'd have night games that can be beamed back into GB and France, as well as prime time for Aust and Pacific. Afternoon games for lesser nations (family oriented plus tradition)

 

[ibeme]

Loopy said:

A few years ago they did what they termed a pre season camp in america.

This was following the lines of american sports who have been doing these camps for years.

Basically, one town becomes the place for all things related to the sport for a period before the season - they hold training sessions, seminars on coaching, fan days, pre season trials etc etc etc.

Something similar could be adopted for a league carnival or world cup. Everything in those towns could become league, not unlike Forster in the lead up to SOO game 3 this year. Each of these towns could also adopt/accommodate a team.

 

[shaggy]

4 ticket sales a ticket ballot like rwc & olympics will c the tickets sell out pretty fast, as well as great marketing so ppl wanna be @ the game, we need 2 learn from rwc from its success & mistakes

what yr 4 t the world cup though there is talk of 07 but i would disagree. i think 05 wold he best since there r no major world events that yr (that i no of). i no its not long 2 go but maybe then 09, even though its 9 after the last 1 it might be a good idea 2 make sure everything is goin 2 go properly, major world events

04-olympics(athens), euro (soccer portugal)
05- nuthing that i no of, leage world cup ?
06 - commonweatlth games (meblourne), winter onlympics, soccer world cup (germany),
07- cricket (WI) & rugby world cups (France or England)
08, olympics (bejing)
09, leage world cup

 

[dimitri]

4 ticket sales a ticket ballot like rwc & olympics will c the tickets sell out pretty fast, as well as great marketing so ppl wanna be @ the game, we need 2 learn from rwc from its success & mistakes

totally agree