What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Joey or Thurston, who is GOAT?

Messages
3,994
Johns played with duds is a rewriting of history that is particularly odd.

Buderus was a once in a generation hooker that was better then anyone that's played the same position at the Cowboys.

Ben Kennedy compared to Gavin Cooper for example, is laughably lopsided.

And even going back, guys like Robbie O and Paul Harragon are superstars of there time.
Meanwhile JT needed the two Australian front rowers, the Kiwi lock who is probably the best forward in the game for quite sometime excluding hookers, the Australian 5/8, the aus back up centre and an origin backrower to win.

the cowboys teams were much better then what Johns had to work with.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
34,402
Meanwhile JT needed the two Australian front rowers, the Kiwi lock who is probably the best forward in the game for quite sometime excluding hookers, the Australian 5/8, the aus back up centre and an origin backrower to win.

the cowboys teams were much better then what Johns had to work with.

Complete rewriting of history.

The Knights backline of the 2001 was All Australian reps excepting for Hughes (Origin) and Rudder.
 

blaza88z

Coach
Messages
15,084

Been many of halfbacks who were exceptional defenders, Peter Wallace springs to mind, to say Andrew Johns is the best bar none, that's a stretch

and no, i'm not for a fleeting moment suggesting Peter Wallace was a better player than Andrew Johns, I am talking purely from a tackling perspective
 

beave

Coach
Messages
15,558
Been many of halfbacks who were exceptional defenders, Peter Wallace springs to mind, to say Andrew Johns is the best bar none, that's a stretch

and no, i'm not for a fleeting moment suggesting Peter Wallace was a better player than Andrew Johns, I am talking purely from a tackling perspective

Defence, pffffft. What’s defence ever done lately?

It’s all about dat ‘round the corner kicking’

F9406DD0-2011-4A0B-A459-224DD8B55AA7_zpspfps7kuc.jpg
 

ed612313

Juniors
Messages
332
Front on John's was another level defensively.
Neither are the GOAT but the way I see it Thurston isn't better in any category... Mostly equal. But John's was another level defensively and especially front on defense.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
34,402
Front on John's was another level defensively.
Neither are the GOAT but the way I see it Thurston isn't better in any category... Mostly equal. But John's was another level defensively and especially front on defense.

Johns front on tackling technique was awesome.

For mine JT was a better cover defender then Johns, and had him for speed.
 

BuderusIsaBeast

Juniors
Messages
554
I think Thurston had the better career in terms of achievements (Joey had so many injuries).

But at there best Joey was on another level to any player I’ve ever seen, the way he destroyed QLD in 05 (featuring Thurston, Smith, Lockyer and Slater) was incredible. People forget how good he was in 05. Terrible Knights team, he lost the Dally M by 1 point despite playing half the season.

If I had to pick 1 player to play for my life, I would pick Johns every time
 

Exsilium

First Grade
Messages
9,553
When I was a kid, I remember running around the backyard pretending I was Joey. Replicating his winning play from the weekends game. I wasn’t even a knights fan but the guy was on another level.

I’d be glued to the telly watching footy, seeing the legends of our game but he always stood out. He had the hearts of the greater rugby league community in his hands.

I always believed the measure of his greatness was not limited to his talent on the football field, but the emotion he generated off it.

When he retired, it was a tough day. I remember reading it in the paper and I thought to myself “will we ever see another Joey Johns”. When he admitted to using drugs the RL community was angry, upset and disappointed. As if one of your own children had done it. He was rugby league and we rode his highs and lows more than any other footballer.

When Thurston retired, I was over him by that point and it wasn’t his fault, he was a great footballer. He should have been remembered for that. Some of the things he did, amazing.

But the constant applause, the sickening overdose of rehashed stories about what he did and who he is. It saturated what should have been another sad day for league. A great footballer, servant of the game retiring. Instead I was glad to not have to hear it again.

Thurston didn’t evoke the same emotions in me that Joey did when he retired. When he played, he was always a few plays ahead, knew what to do and when. Even now, listening to him on TV and seeing him struggle, it sucks. Because he’s a legend and he’s declined right in front of us.

Years from now and just like our parents or friends from previous generations of league fans who would always recall a player from their time and act like they were the greatest. We will do the same. We will be watching league and thinking “Joey would have carved these merkins up, even now”.

We’d be right too, cause he was that good.

That’s why, in my opinion, he is the GOAT.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
28,975
Wallace was a tough nut for sure Blaza, as was Adam Dykes, Craig Gower & Brett Finch among others.

As far as the 2015 CC medal award, I thought JT was deserving. Milford carved up with his running game, but his kicking game was virtually non-existent and that proved the difference between the two teams. JT basically had to go it alone as well, I don't think fans remember but Morgan was having a pretty poor game until THAT pass.

Say what you want, but it can't be called a fluke either given Morgan pulled off something similar to keep the 17 Origin series alive. (Also another JT clutch moment)

JT's biggest competition for the CC was actually Tamou. The 2012 version of Tamou decided to rock up for the Grand Final instead of the lazy burn out Tamou that had resurfaced in recent seasons and he was the best forward on the park. Granny was also in contention, but his second stint was really poor and nerves really got the better of him. In a way, it probably proved a blessing because the bounce pass that ultimately led to the Feldt try caused Blair to rush out which set off the chain reaction.

I think it's a disservice to say the 2015 Cowboys blew away the 1997 and 2001 Knights on paper. Both were pretty strong teams without ever being run-away favourites. The thing about that Cowboys side is that there were so many games (12 or 13?) where they trailed at half-time, came back and won. The most famous example was the Round 4 clash where JT pulled off the most remarkable get out of jail performance I've seen from a half. Up against Melbourne, he out-clutches Cronk, resurrects the Cowboys from the dead and pulls off a premiership that many thought were dead and buried in Brisbane after Round 3.

A remarkable achievement.

As was that 2001 Newcastle Knights victory. The thing about Newcastle that year was that they could obliterate teams unlike few teams in the competition. And they weren't flat-track bullies either, they'd smash top teams like the Broncos, Roosters and Parramatta. In a way, it was odd that the Eels were so heavily favoured in the GF. Earlier in the season, the Knights pulled off a similar performance and just smashed the Eels effortlessly in the first half. They copied that blue-print and the rest is history. As great as the Roosters were this year, I've yet to see a first half that dominant in the Grand Final.

The biggest what if is could the Knights have gone back to back if Joey didn't get injured in 02. Their form heading into the finals was up and down, but they had the feeling of a team waiting for September. If Joey stays fit, they beat St. George in the First Week and then they'd face off against Sydney in the Prelim which would have been an awesome showdown. Newcastle with Johns were a much bigger challenge than the Broncos that year and it would have been the third consecutive finals series where both teams went head to head.

Both wonderful players, it's a shame these threads invite people to say 'why not' instead of celebrating what they brought to the game.
 

myrrh ken

First Grade
Messages
9,817
Prolly already been said but...

Joey had to carry Sean Rudder to a premiership

JT had Morgan to provide support

...that splits it for me. Both amazing players that should have played for my team.
 

Rhino_NQ

Immortal
Messages
33,046
Prolly already been said but...

Joey had to carry Sean Rudder to a premiership

JT had Morgan to provide support

...that splits it for me. Both amazing players that should have played for my team.
Does taking Brett firman to a gf in 05 count as anything
 

myrrh ken

First Grade
Messages
9,817
Does taking Brett firman to a gf in 05 count as anything

Fair point. He only played half a season that year though didn't he? And played off the bench in the gf.

Firman was a good team player. Teamed up well with Matt Johns one night in NZ


I never saw Rudder do anything. ever. Yet Newc was consistently in the finals when he was around.
 

Latest posts

Top