Josh Dugan Told To Shop Himself Around - Not happy with the Dragons.

[2010]

Dugan puts 110% into a game and is going to get injured a lot more.

 

[Saints Forever]

Crush
I am merely trying to be objective re the case you presented.
Do you think an injury inflicted by illegal play counts for a player being injury prone?
If you do then I don't agree with that belief and if you don't you need to recalibrate Dugan's stats accordingly.
The article you are quoting is old, unfortunately has some obvious flaws and not completely accurate by its own admission.
PS: I hate Dugan rolling around on the ground carrying on and I think it detracts from him but I also believe he is a tough bastard and could have gone off on several occasions but stayed on and toughed it out.

OT, every opinion expressed on this forum by forum participants are subjective. I accept you are trying to be objective. Each of us thinks we are being objective.

Rugby League is a contact sport. Players are injured by legal and illegal play.

Duges plays a very physical style of game. He has been and will continue to be injured each and every season.

He is 26 going on 33 in terms of wear and tear.

Duges is our best back and deserves to be paid what he is worth to the club.

Great defender and metre eater. Doesn't have the capacity to consistently set up his fellow players. Rarely looks for support when he has the ball in hand. Worth keeping for 2-3 years.

 

[Crush]

Crush
I am merely trying to be objective re the case you presented.
Do you think an injury inflicted by illegal play counts for a player being injury prone?
If you do then I don't agree with that belief and if you don't you need to recalibrate Dugan's stats accordingly.
The article you are quoting is old, unfortunately has some obvious flaws and not completely accurate by its own admission.
PS: I hate Dugan rolling around on the ground carrying on and I think it detracts from him but I also believe he is a tough bastard and could have gone off on several occasions but stayed on and toughed it out.

OT, lets agree to disagree on this one. I believe that dugan is injury prone and you do not. Leave it at that mate.

 

[Maximus]

I doubt any of us really know the salary cap situation, but if Melbourne can keep Cronk, Smith and Slater on the books, surely we can keep Hunt, McInnes and Duges, as well as retaining Field, Dufty and Mann.

Melbourne were able to keep those 3 on the books because they were cheating the cap. Notice how ever since then they have had to let other players go to keep them? When you spend so much on 3 players, you have to spend less in other areas, either using rookies or players unwanted by other clubs. The problem is when your other talented players want that pay rise, you can't afford it.

When the big 3 are as good as those 3 are, they make the shit look better than they actually are, so you don't necessarily need a more balanced squad. Our big 3 couldn't do that.

 

[dragonssamy61]

Just becomes a question of the right price. IMO, his current asking price (or equivalent under the new cap) is fair. As Priddle's says, a pay cut is an insult.

As for Dufty and Field - I'm not at all saying that juniors are obselete if they have established players in front of them. But we need to pan the pathways over a number of years (I'm obviously quite vocal about these kids needing time in Cutters before hitting firsts). It won't be until next year that these guys can handle a full 26 rounds in NRL, another year or two before they start thriving and then another couple of years before they have a real breakout. If we plan for that and communicate it to them, we won't have any issues with the guys in front of them. Yep, they ooze potential (although I still think Herbert and Host are our juniors most likely to achieve stardom) but it's likely that they won't fully consistently realise that potential in NRL for another 3-5 years. Meanwhile, would be handy to have an outside back of Digans calibre around!

100% Benny I hope they have something like what you say set up already but who knows

 

[dragonssamy61]

Injury prone or not bottom line is Duges worth the money he is asking ? What is he worth to the team ? Are we any better with him playing his style of footy . Do we win more games when he plays ? Are we better off with another fullback that is on the same money that plays a different style ? IMO if we are going to pay Duges what he wants or buy another fullback or even use Duges as a center NONE OF THIS MATTERS IF MARY IS STILL COACH nothing will change the results will be the same . Need a clean out Doust , Mary ,Young ,Young JR, Hornby . Need a injection of something new , not the same old same old . So is anyone worth the money their on playing Dragons footy ? The point is we can pay top dollar or even play the whole Cutters side in first grade and we will get the same result .

Hazz
Agree with you.
Spot on get rid of mary .
If hasler is coming all of the guys you mention will be gone.
He will have his own team.
Same with any established nrl coach.

 

[emu62]

Dugan is not only injury prone he is also a thug.Fancy attacking poor GI's shoulder with his jaw. As for laying down after being tackled i believe this is upon instruction from McWrecker to get our time in possession stats looking better

 

[Gareth67]

Dugan is not only injury prone he is also a thug.Fancy attacking poor GI's shoulder with his jaw. As for laying down after being tackled i believe this is upon instruction from McWrecker to get our time in possession stats looking better

Must agree with you emu62 . Dugan is almost as bad as that other Dragon thug , Dean Young .

I can recall that day against South Sydney , when young Dean was firmly held by another Rabbit player and could not move .
But that didn't stop his foul play antics , as he lured a charging G. I . , who slammed straight into Young's jaw .

That to me was the most blatant act of thuggery that I have ever had the displeasure of witnessing in the modern game .

However , as we all know , Young never got away with it , as the Rabbits coach Mr.McGuire pointed out to the media . " it was all his doing , that mad-dog Young , picking on my little Greg , he now has a sore shoulder ! "

Of course , Dean was nursing a very sore jaw for a couple of weeks as a result , however as I said earlier , that Dugan is not too far behind him .
Rather odd that , how Dragon players attack G.I. 's shoulder ?

 

[This Year?]

Surprised you've heard of the f**ker!

Dugan...wasn't he the guy that like scored heaps of ummm what do u call it when the player carrying the ball put the ball down on or over that line that the goalposts are on... for CANBERRA?

 

[possm]

In my opinion, Milne would be just as effective at right centre, so let Dugan go. Let Widdop go and allow Mann and Field to fight for the 6 jumper.

Dufty may very well be our Tedesco and Mann or Field be the perfect patner for Hunt.

Of course it goes without saying, we need a new top line coach.

 

[possm]

Lewish33 , there are so many problems which have plagued this club over the last few years , however they all stem from the clubs inefficient board . The clubs that you have mentioned all have a history of being able to find money when they really need it . (?)
Nor are our clubs TPA,s on par with most other clubs and more unfortunately our leagues club is not able to inject as much capital into the football clubs coffers as it once did . Still I am sure that the Dragons can accommodate Duges if his price is not too high .

I certainly do not want him in another teams colours , as I like most would hope that some sort of compromise may yet be reached . Who really knows the correct asking price ? At this point it's all conjecture .
However , as I said in a post earlier this year , I just found it somewhat odd that he gave the Dragons a time limit for negotiations . To me that meant that he may have had a couple of irons in the fire .

There is another aspect to this also , and that is Hasler wanted Dugan at the Bulldogs when his stink with Brisbane first came up . However he chose the Dragons , I just hope that if there is any truth whatsoever to the Dessie rumour that , should , Dugan leave that will not upset any plans that he , Hasler , may have had for the Dragons ? Merely a thought , something to dwell upon .

All TPA's should be managed by the NRL in a manner that does not favour any NRL Club.

 

[BringTheNoise]

All TPA's should be managed by the NRL in a manner that does not favour any NRL Club.

How on earth would that work? If a business wants to invest money in a player it shouldn't be dictated to them by the NRL which player they can employ. That sort of strategy would drive corporate $$$ away from the game.

 

[possm]

How on earth would that work? If a business wants to invest money in a player it shouldn't be dictated to them by the NRL which player they can employ. That sort of strategy would drive corporate $$$ away from the game.

NRL Marketing Officers search the market for businesses who want to gain exposure through NRL elite players. The TPA is for a the player, is for a set period of time and travels with him to any Club. In this way the NRL is able to keep elite players within the NRL and Clubs would have nothing to do with TPAs. Under this policy, the salary cap would rule again and the ability to cheat would be diminished significantly.

 

[saintm]

In my opinion, Milne would be just as effective at right centre, so let Dugan go. Let Widdop go and allow Mann and Field to fight for the 6 jumper.

Dufty may very well be our Tedesco and Mann or Field be the perfect patner for Hunt.

Of course it goes without saying, we need a new top line coach.

Well put

 

[Gareth67]

NRL Marketing Officers search the market for businesses who want to gain exposure through NRL elite players. The TPA is for a the player, is for a set period of time and travels with him to any Club. In this way the NRL is able to keep elite players within the NRL and Clubs would have nothing to do with TPAs. Under this policy, the salary cap would rule again and the ability to cheat would be diminished significantly.

Without straying too far from the thread topic , I understand what both Bring In The Noise and yourself Possum are saying . However , Possums suggestion does have merit , admittedly it is not the way that the corporate sector would prefer it , however there is no doubt that something does need to be done to ' even the playing field ' , so as there is no advantage to the richer clubs .

We are all aware that many clubs are better run , than others and that being the case they should not be penalised for their efficiency . However anything that will prevent clubs from not being honest and upfront about their business dealings , will only help the game itself in the long run . There must be some way of doing so , but most importantly
under the watchful eye of the NRL itself . There have been far too many clubs over the last 10-15 years that decided the best way of obtaining that premiership trophy was to cheat the system , far too many .

 

[hazzbeen]

Without straying too far from the thread topic , I understand what both Bring In The Noise and yourself Possum are saying . However , Possums suggestion does have merit , admittedly it is not the way that the corporate sector would prefer it , however there is no doubt that something does need to be done to ' even the playing field ' , so as there is no advantage to the richer clubs .

We are all aware that many clubs are better run , than others and that being the case they should not be penalised for their efficiency . However anything that will prevent clubs from not being honest and upfront about their business dealings , will only help the game itself in the long run . There must be some way of doing so , but most importantly
under the watchful eye of the NRL itself . There have been far too many clubs over the last 10-15 years that decided the best way of obtaining that premiership trophy was to cheat the system , far too many .

Gareth totally agree , but our club have been left behind in every aspect , and if most are getting away with it then where dose that leave us , not very smart operators running the ship .....

 

[BringTheNoise]

NRL Marketing Officers search the market for businesses who want to gain exposure through NRL elite players. The TPA is for a the player, is for a set period of time and travels with him to any Club. In this way the NRL is able to keep elite players within the NRL and Clubs would have nothing to do with TPAs. Under this policy, the salary cap would rule again and the ability to cheat would be diminished significantly.

All well and good in theory but in practice it is complete rubbish.

A Brisbane based business is only going to want to sponsor Brisbane based players. Are the NRL supposed to say no because they are attracting more TPA sponsorship than other clubs? That would equal a restraint of trade for players who already have their earning capacity capped enough as it is.

It's simply on club administrations to do better with regards to TPA sponsorship rather than pass the buck onto some half assed centralised sponsorship program that will inevitably drive corporate dollars away.

 

[Gareth67]

Gareth totally agree , but our club have been left behind in every aspect , and if most are getting away with it then where dose that leave us , not very smart operators running the ship .....

Where ? Unfortunately at the bottom of the pile . With our current bunch of stooges the TPA's , regardless of how they were govern , would not really improve the clubs financial situation . We are all aware of what needs to occur to remedy that problem , but how do we get rid of them ?

Of course , the club requires to have respectability , more so on the field , as until that has been obtained , we shall not have too many sponsors knocking on the clubs door .

 

[possm]

All well and good in theory but in practice it is complete rubbish.

A Brisbane based business is only going to want to sponsor Brisbane based players. Are the NRL supposed to say no because they are attracting more TPA sponsorship than other clubs? That would equal a restraint of trade for players who already have their earning capacity capped enough as it is.

It's simply on club administrations to do better with regards to TPA sponsorship rather than pass the buck onto some half assed centralised sponsorship program that will inevitably drive corporate dollars away.

Under TPA's Clubs are not supposed to be involved.
It is very short sighted to identify a local sponsor wanting to sponsor a local player. Players often move from club to club these days.
A national brand sponsoring an elite player is where TPAs should be heading and the NRL are the most appropriate entity to manage this.

If the NRL were managing TPAs, it is most likely some of our elite players would not have been lost to rugby union and other codes.

National brands have the marketing budget and the willingness to buy exposure to a well televised national / international game. The ability to use players in their marketing programs would be great value for money if the NRL marketed the TPA program properly.

 

[BringTheNoise]

Under TPA's Clubs are not supposed to be involved.
It is very short sighted to identify a local sponsor wanting to sponsor a local player. Players often move from club to club these days.
A national brand sponsoring an elite player is where TPAs should be heading and the NRL are the most appropriate entity to manage this.

If the NRL were managing TPAs, it is most likely some of our elite players would not have been lost to rugby union and other codes.

National brands have the marketing budget and the willingness to buy exposure to a well televised national / international game. The ability to use players in their marketing programs would be great value for money if the NRL marketed the TPA program properly.

FFS so now we're only limiting TPA opportunities for "national level brands"!? Not short sighted at all...

So if Canberra Milk identifies a Raiders player that they want to endorse their product via TPA they should be turned away? The fact is different geographic locations have different industries who could potentially utilize local identities via TPA arrangements. Only a small percentage of NRL players actually have national appeal (if you could even call it "national").

Potential sponsors should be able to identify any player they wish to enter an arrangement with, without having to navigate even more red tape from the NRL.

A+ for effort but your idea is flawed.