Just thought you should know...

[Boing Boing]

It's the coach you are sticking up for that keeps picking these guys week in, week out. Even with Super Phil and Chalky there earlier in the season we couldn't get them the ball and when we do we aren't hole running or getting outside teams.

Watching the Raiders trying to score tries is very similar to watching a midget trying to club a lion to death.

As I've said in an earlier thread, now is not the time to be trialling the youngsters, we are in a position where we need the tried and true, even if the true are false right now. I do share your sentiments, Woodgers, but I also see the other side of the argument.

 

[woodgers]

As I've said in an earlier thread, now is not the time to be trialling the youngsters, we are in a position where we need the tried and true, even if the true are false right now. I do share your sentiments, Woodgers, but I also see the other side of the argument.

I know what you are saying Ben, but a lot of the tried have been rubbish first graders since Elliott has picked them and they haven't improved since. Don't overanalyse, I believe you are either a good footballer or you are not. Ale and Milne have shown more in 2 games than Gafa, Howell, Mogg and Robbo have shown in years.

I am with Legend. A good coach will play Carney at Half, Withers out of hooker where he is more effective and prefers, use Tongue off the bench where his impact work has been brilliant. A bad coach will play Withers at half where he has struggled to show any consistantcy, Tongue at Hooker where he has very poor, slow distribution all because he doesn't want to give the kid a proper go, it is like he is proving a point much like he did by continuing to pick Drew, Boogs, Tyran................................................................................

I say that they go with the kids. We are very borderline to get to the semi's and the reality is that if we do then we play away against one of the top 2 sides and get embarassed like last year. Those kids will learn more in 8 weeks than they ever have. If we make the finals then they will be more than ready for 06, if we don't then we are more prepared for next year. I know what I would do.

 

[Boing Boing]

I agree with all the points you make, the fact is, we have an overabundance of talent in some areas (ALL forward roles) and not enough in others. I was a believer in Howell earlier in the season, but not anymore. Germ is the "Old Warrior" so you wont see any of the combinations you want until he wither retires or dies suddenly. I don't believe it to be a coaching problem, rather there is pressure being applied from higher in the tree to keep some players on the field. I don't believe inter-player relations are as harmonious as reports would have us believe. Think of Rhino's departure.

 

[Raider Azz]

I say that they go with the kids. We are very borderline to get to the semi's and the reality is that if we do then we play away against one of the top 2 sides and get embarassed like last year. Those kids will learn more in 8 weeks than they ever have. If we make the finals then they will be more than ready for 06, if we don't then we are more prepared for next year. I know what I would do

I agree for the most part woodgers, but what if we end up using the kids, and we get flogged by 40? How's that for a dent in their confidence. Maybe Elliot wants some experience to help us through. I definately think Carney should at least be on the bench this weekend though.

 

[aussies1st]

I am with Legend. A good coach will play Carney at Half, Withers out of hooker where he is more effective and prefers, use Tongue off the bench where his impact work has been brilliant. A bad coach will play Withers at half where he has struggled to show any consistantcy, Tongue at Hooker where he has very poor, slow distribution all because he doesn't want to give the kid a proper go, it is like he is proving a point much like he did by continuing to pick Drew, Boogs, Tyran................................................................................

We always knew what Elliot was like since last year with the drew and boogs scenario and its just been confirmed this year, with tyran and gafa. If Elliot ever wants to change this week is it.

 

[Raider_69]

I agree for the most part woodgers, but what if we end up using the kids, and we get flogged by 40? How's that for a dent in their confidence. Maybe Elliot wants some experience to help us through. I definately think Carney should at least be on the bench this weekend though.

keeping the kids in cotton ball in PL and never giving them a real go must be installing mountains of confidence in them. By the non selections it gives the impression the coaching staff do not think they are capable, that cant be doing their confidence too much good.

By selecting them even if we get done by 40, at least they will know the coach has faith in their abilities. They should know by reading these forums that the fans have more then enough faith in their abilities. So their confidence will grow from that. Look at Newcastle with Mullen... he's been on the end of a thumping or 5 but look at him now.

We also need to be patient, they arnt gonna be heros first game, they will even make mistakes, we need to accept that will happen and get on with things, those sorts of things will get better with experience. As woodgers said we are struggling this year, we wont make a dent even if we do make the finals so why not use this season to iron out these creases? Then with a full off season and a good 10 games under his belt, by next season Todd Carney will be ready to step up to the plate... he wont get ready by playing in Premier League

 

[aussies1st]

keeping the kids in cotton ball in PL and never giving them a real go must be installing mountains of confidence in them. By the non selections it gives the impression the coaching staff do not think they are capable, that cant be doing their confidence too much good.

This sounds very similar to Michael Monaghan situation where he got stuck in PL and left. If we dont give some of our younger guys confidence in getting picked the same will happen again :?

 

[greeneyed]

I know what you are saying Ben, but a lot of the tried have been rubbish first graders since Elliott has picked them and they haven't improved since. Don't overanalyse, I believe you are either a good footballer or you are not. Ale and Milne have shown more in 2 games than Gafa, Howell, Mogg and Robbo have shown in years.

I am with Legend. A good coach will play Carney at Half, Withers out of hooker where he is more effective and prefers, use Tongue off the bench where his impact work has been brilliant. A bad coach will play Withers at half where he has struggled to show any consistantcy, Tongue at Hooker where he has very poor, slow distribution all because he doesn't want to give the kid a proper go, it is like he is proving a point much like he did by continuing to pick Drew, Boogs, Tyran................................................................................

I say that they go with the kids. We are very borderline to get to the semi's and the reality is that if we do then we play away against one of the top 2 sides and get embarassed like last year. Those kids will learn more in 8 weeks than they ever have. If we make the finals then they will be more than ready for 06, if we don't then we are more prepared for next year. I know what I would do.

I am with Woodgers. Frankly, I believe this season is over, after last weekend's awful performance.

Now is the time to look to the future. The coach daren't do it, as he knows he may well get the boot if he doesn't yet again scrape the team into the 8....

But what happens then? We get booted out of the finals yet again.

The time has come for playing for 2006. I hate to say it, but it has.

The attacking record is truly abysmal. The defence has been pretty good, but you still need to score a point! Only 5 times in our history have we not scored a point in a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just can't believe the depths to which our club has descended under this coach and this management.

 

[sydraider]

I too think we dont have enough to make the 8. It will come down to for and against, it will be tight as.
I think the time for the youth is now, key positions must be attended to and with the arrival of a few good young forwards, we shoul be blooding the future playmakers/organisers.
I do agree with both sides of the arguement, we are missing players so in some respects we dont have a choice in positions suh as wing and centre.
Although having pedestrian players selected week in week out wont help us, with youth comes enthusiasm.
If germ cops 8 weeks then i hope carney is given a good amount of time, as well as campo and zillman.
I would rather be hell bent prepared for next season than limp into the semi's this season only to have another heart wrenching playoff loss in the first week.

 

[aussies1st]

I too think we dont have enough to make the 8. It will come down to for and against, it will be tight as.
I think the time for the youth is now, key positions must be attended to and with the arrival of a few good young forwards, we shoul be blooding the future playmakers/organisers.
I do agree with both sides of the arguement, we are missing players so in some respects we dont have a choice in positions suh as wing and centre.
Although having pedestrian players selected week in week out wont help us, with youth comes enthusiasm.
If germ cops 8 weeks then i hope carney is given a good amount of time, as well as campo and zillman.
I would rather be hell bent prepared for next season than limp into the semi's this season only to have another heart wrenching playoff loss in the first week.

totally agree if we miss the playoff's this year oh well we probably didnt deserve to be there. If we make it and have blooded players who probably would be in great form we will be more of a force in the playoffs then if we stuck to the usual suspects

 

[innsaneink]

keeping the kids in cotton ball in PL and never giving them a real go must be installing mountains of confidence in them. By the non selections it gives the impression the coaching staff do not think they are capable, that cant be doing their confidence too much good.

By selecting them even if we get done by 40, at least they will know the coach has faith in their abilities. They should know by reading these forums that the fans have more then enough faith in their abilities. So their confidence will grow from that. Look at Newcastle with Mullen... he's been on the end of a thumping or 5 but look at him now.

We also need to be patient, they arnt gonna be heros first game, they will even make mistakes, we need to accept that will happen and get on with things, those sorts of things will get better with experience. As woodgers said we are struggling this year, we wont make a dent even if we do make the finals so why not use this season to iron out these creases? Then with a full off season and a good 10 games under his belt, by next season Todd Carney will be ready to step up to the plate... he wont get ready by playing in Premier League

I agree with 69.......nothing prepares a young kid for playing first grade more than actually doing it, the step from PL to 1sts is massive and very few walk into top grade and feel at home staright away, only the special players.
For the majority.....time in the top grade and plenty of it is the best thing for up n comers....results, .... while good for confidence dont really genius development.

 

[Stuart]

I agree with the group that want youth blooded. Our team as it stands is not premiership material, at best we may scrape into 7 th or 8th so its time to start planning for 2006.

Now Milne is getting some time in first grade i hope he stays there till the end of the season. Hopefully Ale gets that chance as well. Both are very promising need time in first grade to develop.

I understand but strongly disagree with the argument some people have put forward as to some non-selections, that the coach doesnt want 150,000 or more players playing in PL and cheap guys in firsts. IMO if a player is in better form he should get the spot no matter what money he is on. Raston should of at least made his debut this season!

Carney needs time in first grade. IMO its going to take at least a season for him to be ready to take over in 2007. He should be instated as our number 1 halfback from now on...Carney will be entrusted with running the team in 2007, most probably with another inexperienced half next to him (Dobson, Campese or Zillman) and needs to have developed enough maturity to take on that burden of being the senior halves partner. The only way he is going to do that is by playing 80 mins of first grade week in week out over the next year, it is not going to happen over night it is going to take time and he is going to make mistakes. At least if its done now there is the insurance that Smith is next to him to guide him or take over when he makes a run of mistakes. Not playing him and then expecting him to take over in 2007 and be capable is a short sighted and unfair on Carney.