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League Doesnt Need This....

Rexxy

Coach
Messages
10,685
I dont thin k league needs the Bulldogs.

The mess the dogs left

The decision not to lay charges against the Bulldogs has left a dark cloud over everyone involved, writes Jacquelin Magnay.

It began as a mess and it is still a mess. The announcement that no charges will be laid against any Bulldogs player over gang rape allegations is in many ways the worst possible result.

The woman who made the allegations has no closure. The players' and the club's reputations are still under a dark cloud. And instead of evidence tested under oath, there will be a drip-feed of selective, untested information in the media.

A particularly unfortunate side effect of the investigation may be an increased reluctance among victims of rape to come forward.

A Northern Sydney Sexual Assault Unit counsellor, Susan Kendall, says: "This may well have an adverse effect because the biggest fears of people considering whether to report sexual assault is not being believed, or being blamed."

There have been no winners here.

The initial response from besieged Bulldogs players to Tuesday's announcement by the Strike Force McGuigon detectives was euphoric. But euphoria turned to anger as it has become obvious that most people do not see the police decision not to lay charges as the "total vindication" claimed by the Bulldogs' new chief executive, Malcolm Noad.

The club wants to move forward and is relying on its on-field top-of-the-table position to bury the allegations, but the community won't let them die.

Why is this, especially when huge amounts of taxpayers' money has underpinned an exhaustive investigation, replete with phone taps? Partly it is due to the recent widespread airing of male football culture - of clubs having "buns" (women who provide sex for the players on demand), of the freely obtained casual sex from groupies and the embellishment of team bonding by having group sex. People can readily believe that such situations easily get out of hand.

Indeed, in the Bulldogs' case, the one sordid fact that has not been challenged is that at least six players had group sex with the woman who made the rape allegations, three nights before the alleged rape took place.

A quarter of the squad that went to Coffs Harbour for the pre-season trial week has, at the least, breached the club's own code of conduct ban on bringing outsiders back to team accommodation. Such group sex is not criminal, but it clearly indicates that players believe it is OK to have sex in the presence of your mates with a "willing scrag".

"She was pointing to the guys and counting one, two, three, four, five, six and saying she has had more guys than that before," one player told The Sun-Herald a week after the alleged rape. Supposedly, Willie Mason refused the same woman a taxi ride as she tried to hitch a lift to the Novotel Pacific Bay resort earlier that contentious Sunday morning, unaware she had been the team "bun".

And then there was the impact of the truth meeting where players aired their version of events in front of each other two days after returning from the coastal town and nearly a week before the strike force interviewed the players.

Some police officers privately expressed surprise that it took 10 days before Bulldog players were formally interviewed. "We would have picked out two or three of the likely suspects and thrown them in separate cells for a few hours of questioning straight away," said one senior police officer.

At the time, the man heading the investigation, Chief Inspector Jason Breton, told the Herald that the delay in questioning the Bulldogs players was to ensure "all of the ducks are lined up in a row". He had a distraught woman who took two days, amid much counselling, to tell her story. And this week Breton answered bluntly when asked if there was a rape or not: "There was." However, he later noted that "it is always hard to talk about evidence of rape because rape is an offence, sexual intercourse is not, but the evidence is the same".

Now there are clear battlelines drawn between the Bulldogs club and the investigating police. The Bulldogs want to discredit the police investigation so that the public will believe their version of events - and, crucially, bolster some sponsorship support. Two witness statements are circulating which support a version of some players. But there are many other statements which haven't been aired.

The Bulldogs club is even considering whether to try to sue the NSW Government. It feels the police, in referring to the woman as "the victim" and publicly declaring there was a serious rape, would have poisoned any jury pool.

But this strong police support for the woman would give a lot of sexual assault victims some heart, says Julie Stubbs, the deputy director of the Institute of Criminology at the University of Sydney.


"I think some people would find it reassuring that the police went in to bat for her," said Stubbs.


And then there is the mystery of the "seventh player" alleged to have witnessed the incident. The police say there was such a person. The Bulldogs maintain the seventh player was invented by police. The Bulldogs insist there was only consensual sex with one player and two other players were in the vicinity. But Breton was clear when quizzed about this. "I know there was [a seventh person] because an independent witness told me so and signed a statement to that effect."

From the very top to the very bottom of the club, officials and players have hit out, wanting a complete vindication, which hasn't sat well with a public that is highly suspicious and wants a change of culture. "Let's believe nothing happened in Coffs Harbour," said Noad, rising quickly to the defence of his players but then later retracting it. Noad says he meant to infer that nothing criminal happened.

The coach, Steve Folkes, reckoned only 5 per cent of the media information had been true and accused the police of trying to trick his players into using their mobile phones by using the ruse of a seventh player. "Ninety-five per cent has been fabrication, innuendo, rumour and misinformation; it's just been twisted because it sells newspapers or it increases ratings," Folkes said.

One thing that is clear is that the casualties from the Coffs Harbour pre-season trial have ricocheted throughout the club. It has lost $1.35 million of sponsorship and has been fined $500,000 by the NRL. It has sacked football manager Garry Hughes and had the resignations of chief executive Steve Mortimer and board member Peter Mortimer. Innocent players have had to face rigorous questioning from wives and girlfriends.

Perhaps it would have been different if the players had stepped forward and told their side of the story from the beginning. Where is the leadership within the club that is challenging the entrenched attitude to women? Even now the players and the club are hiding behind workplace privacy provisions. Player managers are protecting their players - and once again absolving them of personal responsibility. Noad says the players are privately remorseful about what took place at Coffs Harbour, but no one outside of the club has seen evidence of this. And the penalties on the players who have brought about this crisis? Most probably some fines.

Amid all of the "she said-they said" claims, there is the woman who has moved out of her coastal town and been in virtual hiding since February.

She has not spoken to outsiders despite the lure of substantial amounts of money from various television shows and women's magazines. If she was making these rape claims for financial gain, she has already bypassed a small fortune.
 

[furrycat]

Coach
Messages
18,827
It worries me that the woman:
1. Could not successfully identify all players
2. The DNA did not match
3. People saw differently...

How do we know it wasn't a group of other people? She cannot identify the players, and no DNA matches. Breton has said the chlorine would change the DNA... whereas it shows his true ignorance that DNA cannot be altered by chlorine...
 

0neye

Guest
Messages
5,634
All this is not new to any sport its been going on from day one,but the way the news papers go on you would think it has never happed before.
FOR SALE SEX or I HAD SEX WITH :?: take your pick ask the girls that which is it ;-)
 

gaterooze

Bench
Messages
3,037
"She has not spoken to outsiders despite the lure of substantial amounts of money from various television shows and women's magazines. If she was making these rape claims for financial gain, she has already bypassed a small fortune."

There is one very important reason why this may not have happened yet -- if the woman makes public claims that contradict the police report/decision, then the Bulldogs could sue her for every penny she earns from it, and court costs on top of that.

It was only a matter of time before Magnay stuck her boot in... but her above comment is ludicrous -- the only way she could make a small fortune is if her allegations were TRUE.
 

Rexxy

Coach
Messages
10,685
Dogspeak:-



1) Discredit the source
2) Put fingers in ears and say "blah blah blah"
3) Make physical threats like nospam25 did with Raiders 69
 

Anonymous

Juniors
Messages
46
gaterooze said:
"She has not spoken to outsiders despite the lure of substantial amounts of money from various television shows and women's magazines. If she was making these rape claims for financial gain, she has already bypassed a small fortune."

There is one very important reason why this may not have happened yet -- if the woman makes public claims that contradict the police report/decision, then the Bulldogs could sue her for every penny she earns from it, and court costs on top of that.

It was only a matter of time before Magnay stuck her boot in... but her above comment is ludicrous -- the only way she could make a small fortune is if her allegations were TRUE.
No, not neccessarily. Her allegations could be true or false or somewhere in between - despite the millions of posts on the matter, no one here knows.

In any case, the 'truthfulness' of the story would have no bearing on there being a magazine out there willing to pay for an interview.

I agree that Magnay doesnt know either and imo, the story will eventually pop up somewhere, no doubt in some tabloid and/or its TV equivalent... with or without the woman's knowledge. Why? Because it sells.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
gaterooze said:
There is one very important reason why this may not have happened yet -- if the woman makes public claims that contradict the police report/decision, then the Bulldogs could sue her for every penny she earns from it, and court costs on top of that.

Did Warne or Beckham sue over the allegations made by women that they slept with them?
 

Shifty

Juniors
Messages
842
Magnay may get a chance to find out if she likes prison food better than humble pie if she continues her current stance ;-) .
 

Fibroman

First Grade
Messages
8,216
I can tell you that I played the game for 25 years, and have been on numerous footy trips, both pre-season and end of season.

I've never actually seen or participated in group sex, but I can tell you that a bunch of footballers together with a lot of alcohol involved,spells - M.I.S.C.H.I.E.F. and a lot of the time that involves women and sex, and I don't need to go into details.

The point I'm making, is that this sort of behaviour has been in the 'culture' of footballers in the past. Whilst it might not bring 'the game' into disrepute if it's just a local A grade team doing it, it does when it is a NRL team, like the bulldogs.

First grade footballers need to be educated by their clubs that they are in the spotlight, and any 'mischief' from them will bring the game into disrepute, and to be mindful of this, especially when they are having a beer.
 

wittyfan

Immortal
Messages
30,068
:clap:

Jacquelin, as usual, has written a clear and concise article about the current situation.
 

Sportsjock

Juniors
Messages
512
I think the article is brilliantly written and very fair in listing a level headed opinion.

I find it interesting that as pointed out the Bulldogs are throwing around 2 witness statements in order to support their claims, while many other witness statements that counter that, are yet to be revealed.

In my mind at least, there is no doubt - the Bulldogs have gotten away with one, [edit pp], and so do most of us here with any sort of nuetral level headed opinions.

If you want me to believe one or the other - the BULLDOGS and their football ethics, or the NSW Police - I know which way I lean.
 

Pensacola Q.C

Juniors
Messages
1,051
Rex said:
Dogspeak:-



1) Discredit the source
2) Put fingers in ears and say "blah blah blah"
3) Make physical threats like nospam25 did with Raiders 69

You're old. So is she. I suggest you both get over it and try and get a life.
 
Messages
2,841
Sporty, many of us agree with what she has written. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the media hype was prejudicial to this case. As far as I'm concerned they share some responsibility for the outcome. If the media simply covered the basic facts and left it at that it would have been best for all.

It's difficult to pull punches in this issue, but unfortunately, sites like this perish if they percieve us to defame.

The problem is that is is not just an NRL problem, it's social and now political.
 

Fibroman

First Grade
Messages
8,216
Sportsjock said:
I think the article is brilliantly written and very fair in listing a level headed opinion.

Its an opinion. We all have them, and there are a lot of different ones. I'm sitting right on the fence. I don't believe there is enough evidence available to the common public to go one way or the other.

I think there is something for the bulldogs to take on board and learn from this, and there is something for young women to learn from this.

We can all speculate about what may or may not have happened.

My personal opinion is that everyone, including the game of rugby league, the alleged victim, and the bulldogs club and players would all have been better off if the police had of stamped the file " NOT FOR PRESS" in the first instance, and the media never caught wind of the thing.
 

Cammo

Bench
Messages
2,539
I can't see how these stories help the situation in any way. Does anyone really think that this helps the woman or the players?

One reporter publicly stating her opinion on the situation only inflames hatred among Rugby League supporters and I think all of us should be voicing out against ALL reporting on the Coffs Incident.

The woman seems now certain to launch a civil suit and reporting like this will only contaminate this process as well. If as some people believe "The Bulldogs got away with something" then I would think continually reporting and arguing over the incident are not going to help her healing process or any further action she wants to take.
On the other hand if the players are not guilty then they deserve the right to be left alone.

Unfortunately it seems that some people do not want to leave this alone and are quite happy to talk about a subject that is utterly intolerable for most people. Certain sections of the media are certainly not helping either.
 

Rexxy

Coach
Messages
10,685
Pensacola Q.C said:
Rex said:
Dogspeak:-



1) Discredit the source
2) Put fingers in ears and say "blah blah blah"
3) Make physical threats like nospam25 did with Raiders 69

You're old. So is she. I suggest you both get over it and try and get a life.

But not as old as Shifty. Are you studying in Armidale? Couldnt you get into somewhere good?
 

ibeme

First Grade
Messages
6,904
Rex said:
Pensacola Q.C said:
Rex said:
Dogspeak:-



1) Discredit the source
2) Put fingers in ears and say "blah blah blah"
3) Make physical threats like nospam25 did with Raiders 69

You're old. So is she. I suggest you both get over it and try and get a life.

But not as old as Shifty. Are you studying in Armidale? Couldnt you get into somewhere good?

That's a stupid statement, and only serves to lower your own credibility.
 

Rexxy

Coach
Messages
10,685
Read the statement that provoked it. Your bias is shining through again Ibeme.
 

ibeme

First Grade
Messages
6,904
Neither were particularly bright, but yours was an attempt at being belittling, which is a theme that you tend to carry throughout your posts.
 

Rexxy

Coach
Messages
10,685
Read the statement that provoked it, again. Your bias is shining through again Ibeme.
 
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