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Leeds lose 5 in a row

JasonE

Bench
Messages
3,107
wow, listening to the game Leeds v Wigan on radio was nerve wracking, what a tense finish to the year.
The Salford v Wire game sounds like a cracker too.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
Two very tight games to start the weekend. Five losses on the trot is some slump at this time of year, Leeds just missing that spark to get them home in games, and need a Danny McGuire on board imo. Andrew Dunnemann doing enough for Salford, case of what could have been...?
 

Fairleigh Good!

Juniors
Messages
1,185
Three shocking clubs on show tonight.

Wigan for having such a torrid squad built expensively by the idiot that is Maurice Lindsey. How the fans haven't forced him out by now is beyond me. He spends more than £1.8 to create a squad that is running third bottom at best this season. That is appalling!

Leeds, the biggest club in Super League. No prop forwards in their entire squad and some shocking NRL signings. Donald? He wouldn't get into my local amateur side. Smith is a difficult one to make out. Is he serious when he makes out that having average second rowers at prop all season is going to benefit them? It's like he is oblivious to the problem. They were smashed by an awful Wigan side tonight, it could have been a much larger win for Wigan.

And Warrington. Spending the full salary cap this season, yet dossing about underachieving in mid table. Quite how they continue to put up with Paul Cullen's excuses is beyond me. The time for him to receive the bullet was a few years back.

And then we come to the success story of 2006 in my opinion. Salford. Tiny club, tiny crowds, tiny expenditure on salaries. Running 5th and storming into the playoffs. I hope they get their new ground someday and can capitalise on the amazing work that is being done at the club. Contrast the performance of the Salford board with the Leeds and Wigan boards and you can see how well they are doing.
 

MjM

Juniors
Messages
25
Leeds are in a bit of a quandrary at the moment and the mood at Headingley was bleak this evening post-match.

First a couple of fans really got on Toopi's back in the Rhinos 2000 bar after the game when he materialised for a Q&A session. Smith kept the squad back for a good 20 minutes after the game tonight and appeared to have done a pretty good job of deluding them into thinking that things weren't so bad after all. Which is probably the best he can do in the circumstances: so Toopi was full of "positives" and "you can see we're getting better game after game", whilst the loyal (sic) R2K members were all up for a lynching, demanding to know what it was the team did on the training pitch during the week and why Tony Smith clearly doesn't give a sh*t because he shows no emotion when Sky capture him during games, esp. after Leeds concede a try. (seriously, this is a major bone of contention for some of the dimwitted Leeds fans: you couldn't make it up could you).

We then moved upstairs to the Long Bar where Smith gave his MoM and did his usual little post-match speech. I honestly thought he was going to need an escort out of the place: he did his thing, got a little cheer at the end as he issued a rallying cry and scuttled for the exit using Harry Jepson as cover: no-one would dream of getting at him whilst King Harry's about.

Hetherington meanwhile looked glum: but there was no indication that sacking Smith was on the agenda. I don't think that's likely at all, although if the season did peter out in line with the last few weeks, then his departure by mutual consent in the close-season would not be unthinkable any more.

As for what's wrong, well there's a couple of things. There's the short-term form problem that most teams go through. But there have been mistakes made of which I think the following are the most pertinent:

1. Pack. Leeds have the best second row options in the league and the worst prop options. This appears to have been a conscious Smith tactical decision and can be considered a failure. The loss of Danny Ward before the season began wasn't planned but in any event, Smith's choice to go for a light pack with second rowers covering has been exposed as a miserable failure. Thackray and Leuluai +1 (possibly) coming in and Feather and Bailey (likely) going out would be a decent improvement for 2007.

2. The hooking problem. Leeds management would now almost openly concede that they made an error in giving Diskin a new 4 year deal the year after he came back from his serious knee injury. He's never been the same player since and doesn't look likely to be. It might have been part showing faith in an important member of the GF winning team but in retrospect it looks foolhardy. Whether they have the balls to let him go, free up the salary cap space and get someone else in is open to question. That would involve bloodletting of the type last seen at the end of the 2002 season and would be very harsh on Disko. But it might just be the way out.

3. Creativity. Even when the pack are operating as they should be there is something of a creative void at the heart of things. Sinfield, Burrow and McGuire would be the halfback/LF choices but are they the right combination? The absence of Dunemann this year has exposed the failings of this trio as a unit.

I would actually say this is the biggest conundrum that Leeds face. They have lulled themselves into believing that Sinfield/Burrow/McGuire are the future of the club. This issue has been around since 2003 at least. They are all individually excellent players and have certain combinations that really come off well. But it's become more and more obvious that, despite certain illuminating performances (such as McGuire at Hull the first time this year) none of them can really lead a team around the park and put the pressure onto the opposition line. Sinfield is more of a grafter but it all too often falls on his shoulders and fails to come off. McGuire and Burrow are much more brilliantly individualistic. What it tends IMO to mean is that if one of those two don't do something themselves then the team can be camped in the opposition 20m area for ages and fail to score. It's like watching GB during the Andy Goodway era.

But would Leeds have the balls to bring in someone like (for the sake of argument) Stacey Jones to give the team the lead on the pitch? It would break the hearts of Leeds management to do so because that player would be virtually guaranteed a first team spot, depriving one of presumably Burrow or McGuire a place. And at this stage of their careers I can only see the exit door as being the result for one or other. So again, I expect Leeds to fail to bite the bullet on this critical issue because of the pain, both personal and, trust me, from the fans that would surely follow if and when Burrow or McGuire left the club.

Having said all that form can swing so quickly that this could all be forgotten in a couple of weeks. I remember last year Leeds went to St Helens just after the 2005 slump, beat them and were in the GF. It'll be harder still this year, but with the pressure off due to recent events, Leeds might just shock everyone all over again.
 

JasonE

Bench
Messages
3,107
Fairleigh Good! said:
some shocking NRL signings. Donald? He wouldn't get into my local amateur side.

Agreed, it makes me sick that this bloke is getting paid big money and he has no ability whatsoever. Therefore whoever said "yeah let's buy Scott Donald" should be sacked.
 

Charge

Juniors
Messages
234
Fairleigh Good! said:
Three shocking clubs on show tonight.

Wigan for having such a torrid squad built expensively by the idiot that is Maurice Lindsey. How the fans haven't forced him out by now is beyond me. He spends more than £1.8 to create a squad that is running third bottom at best this season. That is appalling!

Wigan may or may not be over the sallary cap this year, nothing has been proven yet - how could it be? We are not yet at the end of the year!!!

Wigan went over the cap last year, when they came 7th, by roughly £80K, that is why they were deducted points this year...
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
MjM said:
and why Tony Smith clearly doesn't give a sh*t because he shows no emotion when Sky capture him during games, esp. after Leeds concede a try. (seriously, this is a major bone of contention for some of the dimwitted Leeds fans: you couldn't make it up could you).

Gee, we can be fickle fans sometimes :lol: ... thanks for the inside info.

We then moved upstairs to the Long Bar where Smith gave his MoM and did his usual little post-match speech. I honestly thought he was going to need an escort out of the place: he did his thing, got a little cheer at the end as he issued a rallying cry and scuttled for the exit using Harry Jepson as cover: no-one would dream of getting at him whilst King Harry's about.

Hetherington meanwhile looked glum: but there was no indication that sacking Smith was on the agenda. I don't think that's likely at all, although if the season did peter out in line with the last few weeks, then his departure by mutual consent in the close-season would not be unthinkable any more.

As for what's wrong, well there's a couple of things. There's the short-term form problem that most teams go through. But there have been mistakes made of which I think the following are the most pertinent:

MjM said:
1. Pack. Leeds have the best second row options in the league and the worst prop options.
Perhaps Mark O'Neil not working out to be the signing they expected also left them weak in this part of the field, starting to tell at this end of the season.

MjM said:
2. The hooking problem. Leeds management would now almost openly concede that they made an error in giving Diskin a new 4 year deal the year after he came back from his serious knee injury.
4 years is a long contract for anyone. Nice gesture, but always the best way to get guys to compete for spots and play at their best. Two years at a time, negotiated up to one year out should be enough for most players.

MjM said:
3. Creativity. Even when the pack are operating as they should be there is something of a creative void at the heart of things.
Dunneman did a lot last year in the absence of any of that trio. Individually he may not have been worth keeping above any of them but with Diskin out of form, when one of those three also goes missing the side starts to look a bit rudderless. They do need someone else to help the team play as well as it can next year, can't see it happening though.

But still top 3 after a slump like this shows Leeds got by fine at the start of the year, and so can do again. Can't write them off yet.
 

Fairleigh Good!

Juniors
Messages
1,185
Charge said:
Wigan may or may not be over the sallary cap this year, nothing has been proven yet - how could it be? We are not yet at the end of the year!!!

Wigan went over the cap last year, when they came 7th, by roughly £80K, that is why they were deducted points this year...

According to the radio the other day Wigan have signed 36 professional players in the past 12 months. Their heado honcho publicly released a statement saying they were operating at the cap limit after he was put under pressure from fans to sign players to improve the side. They then went out and signed Stuart Fielden on what is rumoured to be the most expensive deal in Super League history. Other things such as the flurry of panic signings made under Millward, the paying off in full of Kris Radlinski and Dennis Moran then replacing them with well-paid professionals add to the case for the prosecution.

Other Super League clubs know this. Castleford and Wakefield have released statements virtually begging the SL to deduct points in the same season as the offenses were committed, in clear reference to Wigan's situation this year.

Wigan are 99% certain to be over the cap again. We'll have to wait until this time next year for the verdict though.
 

MjM

Juniors
Messages
25
Fairleigh Good! said:
According to the radio the other day Wigan have signed 36 professional players in the past 12 months. Their heado honcho publicly released a statement saying they were operating at the cap limit after he was put under pressure from fans to sign players to improve the side. They then went out and signed Stuart Fielden on what is rumoured to be the most expensive deal in Super League history. Other things such as the flurry of panic signings made under Millward, the paying off in full of Kris Radlinski and Dennis Moran then replacing them with well-paid professionals add to the case for the prosecution.

Other Super League clubs know this. Castleford and Wakefield have released statements virtually begging the SL to deduct points in the same season as the offenses were committed, in clear reference to Wigan's situation this year.

Wigan are 99% certain to be over the cap again. We'll have to wait until this time next year for the verdict though.
IIRC Wigan's books were inspected by the RFL before the Fielden signing was allowed to go ahead.
 
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