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Losing more of our young guns.

Pro Dragons

Juniors
Messages
395
Canberra has pulled off a shock attack on St George Illawarra, pinching five of the best up-and-coming players from the Dragons' ranks.
In an audacious move, the Raiders have lived up to their name by snaring five rising stars in a move that has infuriated the Dragons.
The five 18-year-olds were seen as part of the future plans of the Dragons - and at least six more quality youngsters have been signed by other clubs, as well.

The players who have made the move to the ACT are Country under-18s and Dapto fullback Jack Piccirilli, hooker Jaxon Lavender, the Dragons' under-18 player of the year from the Dapto Canaries, utility back Sean Trindall (Shellharbour Stingrays), fullback Judd Stevenson (Corrimal Cougars) and centre James Walsh (Albion Park).

Local officials in the Illawarra area are dismayed at the ambush by the Raiders, blaming the Dragons for failing to move on the talented youngsters.
"It's very disappointing and you can't blame the kids," one local league coach told Wide World of Sports.
"We have put 10 years of hard work into some of these guys.
"They are all massive talents but the Dragons just let them go."
News of the departures will be seen as another body blow by disappointed Dragons fans.
Only a few days ago, it was revealed that just three of the club's top-30 players turned up to the annual awards presentation night in a clear sign of the disharmony in the ranks.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
15,470
All of the so called “losses” are already behind a crop of young players in Ramsey, Sloan, Amone, Sullivan, Feagai, Feagai, Suli, Lomax and several others oft mentioned so nothing whatsoever to do with Hunt.
Raiders with an ageing roster and several “depth players” would give them more of a chance.
 

Jeremy Dragon

Juniors
Messages
792
Actually it’s a systemic issue at the Dragons & it won’t be the last season.
The Flegg side will be playing with 21 year olds, so all of the good juniors under 21 won’t be getting a run and their pathway will be blocked. That’s why they’ve jumped.
The flegg side this year had 21 20 19 and 18 year olds if you’re good enough you get a run.
So what a few players who couldn't even make sg ball side left
This is a bullshit thread for fans who know f**k all can have a whinge
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
19,553
Posted this in the other thread:


Could be wrong but pretty sure, apart from Walsh who is only 17 this year, the rest were 18 this year.

And none of them played SG ball (think Piccirilli/Lavender played Laurie Daley cup), so it’s not like they were the top rated Steelers junior’s (the better 18 year olds generally play up in ball)

They may kick on, but the Mole article is a bit of a beat up…
 

Maddragon99

Juniors
Messages
1,979
Canberra has pulled off a shock attack on St George Illawarra, pinching five of the best up-and-coming players from the Dragons' ranks.
In an audacious move, the Raiders have lived up to their name by snaring five rising stars in a move that has infuriated the Dragons.
The five 18-year-olds were seen as part of the future plans of the Dragons - and at least six more quality youngsters have been signed by other clubs, as well.

The players who have made the move to the ACT are Country under-18s and Dapto fullback Jack Piccirilli, hooker Jaxon Lavender, the Dragons' under-18 player of the year from the Dapto Canaries, utility back Sean Trindall (Shellharbour Stingrays), fullback Judd Stevenson (Corrimal Cougars) and centre James Walsh (Albion Park).

Local officials in the Illawarra area are dismayed at the ambush by the Raiders, blaming the Dragons for failing to move on the talented youngsters.
"It's very disappointing and you can't blame the kids," one local league coach told Wide World of Sports.
"We have put 10 years of hard work into some of these guys.
"They are all massive talents but the Dragons just let them go."
News of the departures will be seen as another body blow by disappointed Dragons fans.
Only a few days ago, it was revealed that just three of the club's top-30 players turned up to the annual awards presentation night in a clear sign of the disharmony in the ranks.
Total beat up. But I do hate the RL media constantly putting the slipper in at every opportunity. Remember last year it was family heritage names like Wishart & Rodwell leaving, no disrespect but the only players I’m aware of losing that have done anything are Saab, Schoupp & perhaps Schiller.

We need a scandal like Penrith cheating the salary cap to take the attention away 😂
 

blacksafake

First Grade
Messages
7,340
Total beat up. But I do hate the RL media constantly putting the slipper in at every opportunity. Remember last year it was family heritage names like Wishart & Rodwell leaving, no disrespect but the only players I’m aware of losing that have done anything are Saab, Schoupp & perhaps Schiller.

We need a scandal like Penrith cheating the salary cap to take the attention away 😂
Manly are doing their best to attract attention 😂
 

Maximus

First Grade
Messages
7,567
That’s because signing Ben hunt at the ripe old age of 33 for another 3 years for another 3million dollars for another 12th position finish blocking the rd of many youngsters was more important for this smart intelligent Wel run club

Signing a halfback has blocked a fullback, hooker, utility back, another fullback and a centre?

This post is dumb and you should feel embarrassed
 

71saintsimon

Juniors
Messages
172
Signing a halfback has blocked a fullback, hooker, utility back, another fullback and a centre?

This post is dumb and you should feel embarrassed
Really ? I mean the culture at the dragons showing juniors the exit door and signing a dads army unit from the broncos 08 class is not dumb it’s extremely intelligent like you seem to be as well , by the way mr intelligence have a look at that Penrith team what they have achieved by showing faith in there juniors , if u really understood my comments you wouldn’t of wrote that hog wash
 

Maximus

First Grade
Messages
7,567
Really ? I mean the culture at the dragons showing juniors the exit door and signing a dads army unit from the broncos 08 class is not dumb it’s extremely intelligent like you seem to be as well , by the way mr intelligence have a look at that Penrith team what they have achieved by showing faith in there juniors , if u really understood my comments you wouldn’t of wrote that hog wash

Oh so now it's all of the old players and not just Hunt? Your post was dumb because you claimed a group of players that doesn't include a single half, left because we signed a half.
 

Dragon David

First Grade
Messages
5,027
Well, Sullivan is still trying to have his ties with the Dragons severed with a second request to be released from his contract being issued.

Ryan Webb has made comment that both Sullivan and Sloan have made formal requests to be released as per -


Webb says -
"At the crux of this they are both seeking more consistent first grade exposure while, as a football club, we must balance player development with the need to win and these two aims don’t always perfectly align.”

I think that the end result will see us parting the ways with these guys. They have been wanting out for most of this year and with them "hammering" to leave, there is no point keeping them as their hearts will not be with the club and we will not get much out of them. We unfortunately might have to cut our losses and look at other options.

A lot of this drama, in my opinion, has been attributed to the poor way in which Hook has handled these guys plus the lack of communication during the year and the lack of "honesty" in the case of Hunt's new extension beyond 2023. Also, the young guns needed to show their worth by putting in "players of matches" games in the KOE Cup every week to basically show and earn their merit for Hook to use them full-time in first grade. Webb in a way is right with what he said in that there is the need to balance player development with the need to win and these two aims don’t always perfectly align.

We could lose a lot of guys if Sloan and Sullivan go. I see a domino effect. Other young ones will see that if Sloan and Sullivan want to leave then there must be something wrong at the club. Woe is us maybe, but this is all part of Dragons footy at the moment.
 

Coffs dragon

Bench
Messages
3,958
Well, Sullivan is still trying to have his ties with the Dragons severed with a second request to be released from his contract being issued.

Ryan Webb has made comment that both Sullivan and Sloan have made formal requests to be released as per -


Webb says -
"At the crux of this they are both seeking more consistent first grade exposure while, as a football club, we must balance player development with the need to win and these two aims don’t always perfectly align.”

I think that the end result will see us parting the ways with these guys. They have been wanting out for most of this year and with them "hammering" to leave, there is no point keeping them as their hearts will not be with the club and we will not get much out of them. We unfortunately might have to cut our losses and look at other options.

A lot of this drama, in my opinion, has been attributed to the poor way in which Hook has handled these guys plus the lack of communication during the year and the lack of "honesty" in the case of Hunt's new extension beyond 2023. Also, the young guns needed to show their worth by putting in "players of matches" games in the KOE Cup every week to basically show and earn their merit for Hook to use them full-time in first grade. Webb in a way is right with what he said in that there is the need to balance player development with the need to win and these two aims don’t always perfectly align.

We could lose a lot of guys if Sloan and Sullivan go. I see a domino effect. Other young ones will see that if Sloan and Sullivan want to leave then there must be something wrong at the club. Woe is us maybe, but this is all part of Dragons footy at the moment.
I don’t blame him as he’s been screwed over by Hook and the road block.
 

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,509
Well, Sullivan is still trying to have his ties with the Dragons severed with a second request to be released from his contract being issued.

Ryan Webb has made comment that both Sullivan and Sloan have made formal requests to be released as per -


Webb says -
"At the crux of this they are both seeking more consistent first grade exposure while, as a football club, we must balance player development with the need to win and these two aims don’t always perfectly align.”

I think that the end result will see us parting the ways with these guys. They have been wanting out for most of this year and with them "hammering" to leave, there is no point keeping them as their hearts will not be with the club and we will not get much out of them. We unfortunately might have to cut our losses and look at other options.

A lot of this drama, in my opinion, has been attributed to the poor way in which Hook has handled these guys plus the lack of communication during the year and the lack of "honesty" in the case of Hunt's new extension beyond 2023. Also, the young guns needed to show their worth by putting in "players of matches" games in the KOE Cup every week to basically show and earn their merit for Hook to use them full-time in first grade. Webb in a way is right with what he said in that there is the need to balance player development with the need to win and these two aims don’t always perfectly align.

We could lose a lot of guys if Sloan and Sullivan go. I see a domino effect. Other young ones will see that if Sloan and Sullivan want to leave then there must be something wrong at the club. Woe is us maybe, but this is all part of Dragons footy at the moment.

Firstly, I'll start this by saying that I don't think Hook is the right coach for us long term. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I think he's a means to an end while we shuffle things around in the background. I think this ties in with what Webb has said. I think they are buying time to setup the right structures. Almost like short term pain for long term gain.

Early on when the media were first beating up Sloan being dropped, I remember Hook on 360 providing answers as to why that is the case. He needed to go back and work on fullback skills one of which was organising the defense. He was pretty clear about that and I got the impression during that interview that he believed Sloan was clear on the direction.

Now as a 19/20 year old, sometimes you don't like being told what to do or that you aren't good enough. I suspect part of what has happened here is exactly that. Suggesting that he didn't know why he was dropped was a bit of a cop out IMO. Even if he wasn't 100% clear, you would still think that he would be wanting to fight his way back into first grade and not expect a free ride. However the footage of him in reserves showed the exact opposite - I watched the first game he played in KOE after being dropped and he showed little interest and more intent on mouthing off at the opponents rather than actually putting in. And from what I saw very little improvement from then on. Yeah it is a coaches job to guide players, but those players also need to show they want to earn that spot back. IMO, Sloan has done the opposite.

I mean, that was the exact problem with Dufty - 2 coaches couldn't convince him to work on improving his skills. Sure, great attack, but that was about the limit of it. Even Dufty himself admitted that he didn't listen to the coaches. Could Sloan not be of a similar mould? Thinking that no matter what they told him, he knew better?

If the media is to be believed, both Ramsay and Amone were putting in massive amounts of hours trying to improve their game - and it showed. Both looked hungry and both wanted that game time - and were rewarded for it. I heard nothing and saw nothing of the same from Sloan.

Finally, why would the possible departure of Sloan and Sullivan cause a mass exodus? If anything, it would signal opportunity for others who, hopefully, show the skills and hunger for game time and not an expectation that they should just be rewarded it for little effort.
 

twinkletoes

Juniors
Messages
715
If these guys are released there is no point in signing in anyone to a contract as they would be worthless. Contracts mean nothing if players can break them just because they don’t get selected in first grade or don’t like the coach or another player….: the whole concept of developing juniors etc would be redundant. We should just save the money from our junior teams and go out and poach players from other areas. A stand needs to be made and if that means both players sit out a season or 2 so be it
 

Colk

Bench
Messages
4,310
Canberra has pulled off a shock attack on St George Illawarra, pinching five of the best up-and-coming players from the Dragons' ranks.
In an audacious move, the Raiders have lived up to their name by snaring five rising stars in a move that has infuriated the Dragons.
The five 18-year-olds were seen as part of the future plans of the Dragons - and at least six more quality youngsters have been signed by other clubs, as well.

The players who have made the move to the ACT are Country under-18s and Dapto fullback Jack Piccirilli, hooker Jaxon Lavender, the Dragons' under-18 player of the year from the Dapto Canaries, utility back Sean Trindall (Shellharbour Stingrays), fullback Judd Stevenson (Corrimal Cougars) and centre James Walsh (Albion Park).

Local officials in the Illawarra area are dismayed at the ambush by the Raiders, blaming the Dragons for failing to move on the talented youngsters.
"It's very disappointing and you can't blame the kids," one local league coach told Wide World of Sports.
"We have put 10 years of hard work into some of these guys.
"They are all massive talents but the Dragons just let them go."
News of the departures will be seen as another body blow by disappointed Dragons fans.
Only a few days ago, it was revealed that just three of the club's top-30 players turned up to the annual awards presentation night in a clear sign of the disharmony in the ranks.

As a Raiders fan this happens to every club. There were a few from our last Flegg side that just went to the Bulldogs.

It is a ridiculous article
 

Dragon David

First Grade
Messages
5,027
Firstly, I'll start this by saying that I don't think Hook is the right coach for us long term. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I think he's a means to an end while we shuffle things around in the background. I think this ties in with what Webb has said. I think they are buying time to setup the right structures. Almost like short term pain for long term gain.

Early on when the media were first beating up Sloan being dropped, I remember Hook on 360 providing answers as to why that is the case. He needed to go back and work on fullback skills one of which was organising the defense. He was pretty clear about that and I got the impression during that interview that he believed Sloan was clear on the direction.

Now as a 19/20 year old, sometimes you don't like being told what to do or that you aren't good enough. I suspect part of what has happened here is exactly that. Suggesting that he didn't know why he was dropped was a bit of a cop out IMO. Even if he wasn't 100% clear, you would still think that he would be wanting to fight his way back into first grade and not expect a free ride. However the footage of him in reserves showed the exact opposite - I watched the first game he played in KOE after being dropped and he showed little interest and more intent on mouthing off at the opponents rather than actually putting in. And from what I saw very little improvement from then on. Yeah it is a coaches job to guide players, but those players also need to show they want to earn that spot back. IMO, Sloan has done the opposite.

I mean, that was the exact problem with Dufty - 2 coaches couldn't convince him to work on improving his skills. Sure, great attack, but that was about the limit of it. Even Dufty himself admitted that he didn't listen to the coaches. Could Sloan not be of a similar mould? Thinking that no matter what they told him, he knew better?

If the media is to be believed, both Ramsay and Amone were putting in massive amounts of hours trying to improve their game - and it showed. Both looked hungry and both wanted that game time - and were rewarded for it. I heard nothing and saw nothing of the same from Sloan.

Finally, why would the possible departure of Sloan and Sullivan cause a mass exodus? If anything, it would signal opportunity for others who, hopefully, show the skills and hunger for game time and not an expectation that they should just be rewarded it for little effort.
I agree with what you say True. I guess when there was this "euphoria" about these young guns being touted as players for our future a year and a half ago, I was expecting that they were both going to be world beaters and were going to be blooded and developed like nobodies business. I thought that they would be the future of the club.

Expectations by both to be first grade players week in and out sooner than later without putting in the hard yakka coupled with poor man management has brought about the misalignment of the players development versus the coach's needs for wins.

The "abundance" of young players in the region of good quality I'm sure will be monitored and anyone of strong potential would be given encouragement to stay with the club. I might have been over dramatic about others wanting to leave but the scenes at the moment do not lend themselves to the club being in harmony. Hopefully once Hook's time with the club has ended, attitudes will change. I know that both Sloan and Sullivan just do not like Hook and that has been the main reason for their wanting out. Hook has not been and is not a good communicator unfortunately.
 

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