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New centre of excellence

Parko1310

Juniors
Messages
233
Please name me the 8 teams in that area
Please name the teams that are getting relocated at some stage
We Dragons and Illawarra have teams in all junior leagues so therefore split is 50/50 with juniors.
The Illawarra side of the juniors has been getting stacked over the years with any imports that we have signed up, only the last years or so have they decided to stack the Dragons side.
If the future is in Wollongong which is a demographic that cares for League, why did Illawarra basically go bankrupt, why didnt they get full houses when they were a standalone club
What? Do i really need to name the other 8? The Illawarra is in greater Sydney, so that rules it out of the main Sydney area. There are 8 other teams in the comp not part of "greater Sydney" and rather are part of Sydney in and of itself. Since I need to spell it out, those teams are: Roosters, Souths, Bulldogs, Penrith, Parra, Tigers, Manly and the Sharks.

Sharks, Manly, Tigers, Dragons have all been part of suggestions in the past that they should be relocated. Note I said "possibly" relocated not "are" getting relocated too. You're clutching at straws.

Are you seriously going to pretend half of the club's junior products that actually do anything come from St.George? Holy shit that's delusional. There isn't even a single St.George junior in our team.

Most Illawarra sides are homegrown. They're building the St.George side up through imports, Illawarra is usually local players with maybe a couple of imports, so that's plain wrong. Again, delusional.

As for your last question, Illawarra went bankrupt for a number of reasons. They were in debt to St.George, weren't traditionally extremely successful, is in an area where people were working in mines in the 80's and 90's, so they weren't exactly a wealthy area. However, it's not the 80's and it's not the 90's. We're going into 2023 ffs. If we want to talk about crowd numbers in the current day, Wollongong gets bigger crowds than Kogarah does, which is a fact. Imagine if they actually had a good stadium to go and watch the game at. Currently, it's the St.George side of the venture's old fashioned, traditional and dinosaur thinking that is holding the club back from uniting as one entity. Accept it. St.George by itself is never coming back.

As I've said if you'd rather us play a 6 game split at Kogarah and WIN for the next 20 years and be mediocre, before being either relocated or abolished completely than I don't know what to say. Personally, I'd rather we be playing out of WIN, as one identity, being successful, getting a new stadium there so we can compete financially into the future and be around in the NRL for a long long time to come.
 

Parko1310

Juniors
Messages
233
You said it we are StGeorge Illawarra Dragons, not Illawarra Dragons, there is no need to abandon the StGeorge Area and play all games at Wollongong.
To touch on this, no one is saying "abandon" St.George. But the area has no taste for rugby league these days. Further, having one base means players, management, staff, etc have more of an identity aligned with the club. It also means we can push for a new stadium in the future because we're playing an adequate amount of games there. New stadiums and infrastructure is becoming bigger than ever before. If we don't keep up, we won't survive as I've said. In order to compete financially we need this stuff. A sense of identity in your workplace is becoming more relevant than ever before, people have options, they want to be proud of where they spend their career and their lives.

A majority of Dragons fans are coming around to the idea that they can be proud of both sides of the joint venture and support St.George Illawarra rather than just St.George or just Illawarra. No one is discarding the 11 in a row by wanting us to play out of Wollongong, we just want a united club as that is what will take us forward. Kogarah WILL NOT get an upgrade or rebuild. WIN can. Therefore, it's logical to play out of there for this reason, as well as the fact that the headquarters will be down there and there is far more potential down there.

Also, how are we "abondoning" St.George if we wear the Red V, have the St.George logo, are called the Dragons, still have junior setup there which is actively being improved through imports, etc. Fans similar to myself love St.George Illawarra and embrace both sides of the venture for what they give us. Not seeing how the club can move forward and benefit from one base in Wollongong is deluded and misguided, based on nostalgia rather than logical thinking and desire for the current joint venture to succeed.
 

Coffs dragon

Bench
Messages
3,955
To touch on this, no one is saying "abandon" St.George. But the area has no taste for rugby league these days. Further, having one base means players, management, staff, etc have more of an identity aligned with the club. It also means we can push for a new stadium in the future because we're playing an adequate amount of games there. New stadiums and infrastructure is becoming bigger than ever before. If we don't keep up, we won't survive as I've said. In order to compete financially we need this stuff. A sense of identity in your workplace is becoming more relevant than ever before, people have options, they want to be proud of where they spend their career and their lives.

A majority of Dragons fans are coming around to the idea that they can be proud of both sides of the joint venture and support St.George Illawarra rather than just St.George or just Illawarra. No one is discarding the 11 in a row by wanting us to play out of Wollongong, we just want a united club as that is what will take us forward. Kogarah WILL NOT get an upgrade or rebuild. WIN can. Therefore, it's logical to play out of there for this reason, as well as the fact that the headquarters will be down there and there is far more potential down there.

Also, how are we "abondoning" St.George if we wear the Red V, have the St.George logo, are called the Dragons, still have junior setup there which is actively being improved through imports, etc. Fans similar to myself love St.George Illawarra and embrace both sides of the venture for what they give us. Not seeing how the club can move forward and benefit from one base in Wollongong is deluded and misguided, based on nostalgia rather than logical thinking and desire for the current joint venture to succeed.
I fully agree with you Parko. I lived the first 30 years of my life in the St.George district. I don’t know any family or friends that remain living there. They have all moved away to many different regions and cities.
Just like the Rabbitohs, the Dragons have a huge fan base all over Australia and declining fan numbers in the Kogarah area.

I’d rather the club be 100% committed to a heartland & a home rather than be 50/50 splitting offcuts & still attracting shit crowd numbers.
Build it and they will come……
 
Last edited:

Dragon David

First Grade
Messages
5,005
I've been following the "Dragons" for 62 years - 39 of those years as the St George Dragons and 23 years as the St George Illawarra Dragons. I was excited for the merger and have been happy with it and I feel that the Dragons should have the one ground to play home games at and that is WIN. Maybe have a couple of "special" games played at Kogarah from time to time but the main ground being WIN.

By having the one "home" ground, the players can devote a lot of their time and effort to the area and promote it moreso.

It is the future now.

I fully agree with you Parko. I lived the first 30 years of my life in the St.George district. I don’t know any family or friends that remain living there. They have all moved away to many different regions and cities.
Just like the Rabbitohs, the Dragons have a huge fan base all over Australia and declining fan numbers in Kogarah.

I’d rather the club be 100% committed to a heartland & a home than be 50/50 splitting offcuts & still attracting shit crowd numbers.
Build it and they will come……
 

JohnnoMcJohnno

Juniors
Messages
1,957
Yes, the centre of excellence is a wonderful thing, and Wollongong is probably the right place for it. But I find it hard to get too enthused about it, mainly because I don't understand why it took us so long to get one. Every other club has one, some of them for many years now. A useless team like the Titans have had one since 2014. A crap team like Manly opened theirs earlier in the year. So did those wooden spooners the Wests Tigers. Kudos to management for getting the process underway, but why are we playing catch-up? Inept management? Tight-arse owners? Savings spent on Crown Lagers?
 
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AyiosYiorgos

Coach
Messages
12,362
What? Do i really need to name the other 8? The Illawarra is in greater Sydney, so that rules it out of the main Sydney area. There are 8 other teams in the comp not part of "greater Sydney" and rather are part of Sydney in and of itself. Since I need to spell it out, those teams are: Roosters, Souths, Bulldogs, Penrith, Parra, Tigers, Manly and the Sharks.

Sharks, Manly, Tigers, Dragons have all been part of suggestions in the past that they should be relocated. Note I said "possibly" relocated not "are" getting relocated too. You're clutching at straws.

Are you seriously going to pretend half of the club's junior products that actually do anything come from St.George? Holy shit that's delusional. There isn't even a single St.George junior in our team.

Most Illawarra sides are homegrown. They're building the St.George side up through imports, Illawarra is usually local players with maybe a couple of imports, so that's plain wrong. Again, delusional.

As for your last question, Illawarra went bankrupt for a number of reasons. They were in debt to St.George, weren't traditionally extremely successful, is in an area where people were working in mines in the 80's and 90's, so they weren't exactly a wealthy area. However, it's not the 80's and it's not the 90's. We're going into 2023 ffs. If we want to talk about crowd numbers in the current day, Wollongong gets bigger crowds than Kogarah does, which is a fact. Imagine if they actually had a good stadium to go and watch the game at. Currently, it's the St.George side of the venture's old fashioned, traditional and dinosaur thinking that is holding the club back from uniting as one entity. Accept it. St.George by itself is never coming back.

As I've said if you'd rather us play a 6 game split at Kogarah and WIN for the next 20 years and be mediocre, before being either relocated or abolished completely than I don't know what to say. Personally, I'd rather we be playing out of WIN, as one identity, being successful, getting a new stadium there so we can compete financially into the future and be around in the NRL for a long long time to come.
First and foremost, WTC said "Why leave the area that made the Saints famous?"
You replied "Because there's 8 other teams in that area, with one or two possibly going to be relocated at some stage"
WTC is talking about Kogarah, not Penrith not Manly, Kogarah that's the area that made the Saints famous, so i asked you which teams are in the area Kogarah, only the Dragons. You have no proof that teams are possibly getting relocated that's your opinion and majority of that talk is forum crap talk Manly Parra Penrith Roosters Souths Canterbury Tigers Sharks are all staying.
Regarding the juniors, yeah currently there are more from the Illawarra side in the team, most of the Dragons are playing for other clubs, Luciano, Sele and a couple of more but Lomax, Feagai twins are considered Illawarra juniors who came from Temora and Leeton, they could have easily been put into the Dragons juniors instead but for years majority of juniors signed up ended up in Wollongong.
The JV was signed one of the provisions that games are split 6-6 that's the way it should be, we have moved training fulltime to WIN fair enough, we are moving admin so be it, but games can stay as is, doesn't mean we will be mediocre, we saw the 3 years Bennett was here we dominated and guess what we played at both grounds..
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
7,320
What? Do i really need to name the other 8? The Illawarra is in greater Sydney, so that rules it out of the main Sydney area. There are 8 other teams in the comp not part of "greater Sydney" and rather are part of Sydney in and of itself. Since I need to spell it out, those teams are: Roosters, Souths, Bulldogs, Penrith, Parra, Tigers, Manly and the Sharks.

Sharks, Manly, Tigers, Dragons have all been part of suggestions in the past that they should be relocated. Note I said "possibly" relocated not "are" getting relocated too. You're clutching at straws.

Are you seriously going to pretend half of the club's junior products that actually do anything come from St.George? Holy shit that's delusional. There isn't even a single St.George junior in our team.

Most Illawarra sides are homegrown. They're building the St.George side up through imports, Illawarra is usually local players with maybe a couple of imports, so that's plain wrong. Again, delusional.

As for your last question, Illawarra went bankrupt for a number of reasons. They were in debt to St.George, weren't traditionally extremely successful, is in an area where people were working in mines in the 80's and 90's, so they weren't exactly a wealthy area. However, it's not the 80's and it's not the 90's. We're going into 2023 ffs. If we want to talk about crowd numbers in the current day, Wollongong gets bigger crowds than Kogarah does, which is a fact. Imagine if they actually had a good stadium to go and watch the game at. Currently, it's the St.George side of the venture's old fashioned, traditional and dinosaur thinking that is holding the club back from uniting as one entity. Accept it. St.George by itself is never coming back.

As I've said if you'd rather us play a 6 game split at Kogarah and WIN for the next 20 years and be mediocre, before being either relocated or abolished completely than I don't know what to say. Personally, I'd rather we be playing out of WIN, as one identity, being successful, getting a new stadium there so we can compete financially into the future and be around in the NRL for a long long time to come.
Just as an aside , you do know that mineworkers average at least 30— 50 % more than the national average wage ?
 

Parko1310

Juniors
Messages
233
Just as an aside , you do know that mineworkers average at least 30— 50 % more than the national average wage ?
In the 80's and 90's? Don't think so mate. Maybe in the current day when there's more of a demand because no one's wanting to do that shit.
 

Parko1310

Juniors
Messages
233
First and foremost, WTC said "Why leave the area that made the Saints famous?"
You replied "Because there's 8 other teams in that area, with one or two possibly going to be relocated at some stage"
WTC is talking about Kogarah, not Penrith not Manly, Kogarah that's the area that made the Saints famous, so i asked you which teams are in the area Kogarah, only the Dragons. You have no proof that teams are possibly getting relocated that's your opinion and majority of that talk is forum crap talk Manly Parra Penrith Roosters Souths Canterbury Tigers Sharks are all staying.
Regarding the juniors, yeah currently there are more from the Illawarra side in the team, most of the Dragons are playing for other clubs, Luciano, Sele and a couple of more but Lomax, Feagai twins are considered Illawarra juniors who came from Temora and Leeton, they could have easily been put into the Dragons juniors instead but for years majority of juniors signed up ended up in Wollongong.
The JV was signed one of the provisions that games are split 6-6 that's the way it should be, we have moved training fulltime to WIN fair enough, we are moving admin so be it, but games can stay as is, doesn't mean we will be mediocre, we saw the 3 years Bennett was here we dominated and guess what we played at both grounds..
First and foremost, are we going to pretend Kogarah isn't a 40 minute drive from Manly haha? It isn't like it's our own area.

"Currently there are more from the Illawarra side". Mate, no one is from the St.George side. Not one. Chuck in Lomax and Feagai twins all you like if you want to clutch at straws, Illawarra still provides more than 95% of the juniors.

And awesome, the JV was signed on the provisions that there's a 50/50 split in games. In late 1998. Holy shit would you look at that it's almost 2023. The way forward is Wollongong so we can have state of the art facilities and stadia. Seriously, move on...
 

SnowDragon

Juniors
Messages
574
Have a questions for people.

Do you have to support the local team when you grow up?
if you move to Manly area, would you support those knobs?
I live in Sweden, should I stop supporting Australia?
if the Dragons moved to Perth, would you stop supporting them?
do supporters outside the core area mean Less, bleed less, in their support?

if you answered yes to any of these then your vastly different in mindset to me!
doesn’t mean I want the dragons to move, but a team is more than the location they have as their home base. A joint venture has to move carefully, but a single core HQ makes sense to any organisation. clearly the gong works for us, and with the new centre being built it’s an opportunity for us. For me, even if Jubilee is better, more convenient when I get home, I think a couple of local derby Matches is enough. Build our strength in 1 area, but continue to do local visits to schools in the St George area, to have fan days at jubilee, functions at the leagues club…
 

epDragon62

Bench
Messages
4,783
Have a questions for people.

Do you have to support the local team when you grow up?
if you move to Manly area, would you support those knobs?
I live in Sweden, should I stop supporting Australia?
if the Dragons moved to Perth, would you stop supporting them?
do supporters outside the core area mean Less, bleed less, in their support?

if you answered yes to any of these then your vastly different in mindset to me!
doesn’t mean I want the dragons to move, but a team is more than the location they have as their home base. A joint venture has to move carefully, but a single core HQ makes sense to any organisation. clearly the gong works for us, and with the new centre being built it’s an opportunity for us. For me, even if Jubilee is better, more convenient when I get home, I think a couple of local derby Matches is enough. Build our strength in 1 area, but continue to do local visits to schools in the St George area, to have fan days at jubilee, functions at the leagues club…
I never lived in Saints territory but they were my team, nothing will change that.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
14,866
Let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start.

The Structure of the 'Joint Venture' is all wrong and so, this needs to be the first problem to be addressed.:

1. Keep the name but separate the rolls, with Illawarra being given the role of junior development and pathways (including NSW Cup Competiton) and St Gorge being given the role of NRL team management.

2. St George has an NRL team and a reserve grade team with their home ground at Kogarah with an occasional game being played at WIN Stadium.

3. Selected junior pathway game to be played at WIN Stadium each weekend as a curtain raiser to the NSW Cup game.

4. St Gorge buys or establishes a St George Illawarra Junior Leagues Club located in Woolongong. and at the same time, buys all junior league clubs in the Illawarra Region and manages various competitions, and signs up Junior players in the Region. Much the same as they do at Penrith.

5. St Gorge Illawarra to lobby all influential supporters to upgrade WIN Stadium and the Kogarah Jubilee Stadium and grounds. Also, redevelop the TAJ and include commercial activity that will help with the funding of this project.

6. The St George Illawarra Board be restructured with directors heading off elements of the Club's 8 management departments e.g. head of:
Football
Marketing
Finance / Admin
Operations
Development
Sponsorship
Community Relations
Red V
Chairman

8. Have this new Board come up with a policy for future development. If necessary, bring in a third owner to attract some much need finance.

 
Last edited:

RedVee_8

Juniors
Messages
375
Have a questions for people.

Do you have to support the local team when you grow up?
if you move to Manly area, would you support those knobs?
I live in Sweden, should I stop supporting Australia?
if the Dragons moved to Perth, would you stop supporting them?
do supporters outside the core area mean Less, bleed less, in their support?

if you answered yes to any of these then your vastly different in mindset to me!
doesn’t mean I want the dragons to move, but a team is more than the location they have as their home base. A joint venture has to move carefully, but a single core HQ makes sense to any organisation. clearly the gong works for us, and with the new centre being built it’s an opportunity for us. For me, even if Jubilee is better, more convenient when I get home, I think a couple of local derby Matches is enough. Build our strength in 1 area, but continue to do local visits to schools in the St George area, to have fan days at jubilee, functions at the leagues club…
Yes, I haven’t lived in the St George area since I was 3 or 4 yo. Coincidentally, for the last 32 years I’ve lived within 10-15mins from the edge of the Illawarra district.
I know when my Dads brothers got married and moved to their new locales, one changed support to become a Tiger but the rest stayed as Saints. I’ve heard of friend’s parents also changing to the new local team but I think that is something that has died out to a great extent. Maybe some still do, but I don’t know of them.

I had Newtown has a second team and when they were dropped I made Illawarra my second team. (I know people will flame me for having a second team).
 

SnowDragon

Juniors
Messages
574
People who change their support are generally not real supporters.

As an example, I kind of supported one team in soccer in Sweden, but changed when I changed locales. I didn’t really care much for the former team, but just picked one after arriving. Then moved into an area with heavy supporters (guys with tats of the team, leaders of the fan clubs etc) and found myself enjoying watching with them, going to games etc. so I changed.

only exception is when you really stop supporting a club due to internal reasons, and need to find another.
 

RedVee_8

Juniors
Messages
375
Yes, I haven’t lived in the St George area since I was 3 or 4 yo. Coincidentally, for the last 32 years I’ve lived within 10-15mins from the edge of the Illawarra district.
I know when my Dads brothers got married and moved to their new locales, one changed support to become a Tiger but the rest stayed as Saints. I’ve heard of friend’s parents also changing to the new local team but I think that is something that has died out to a great extent. Maybe some still do, but I don’t know of them.

I had Newtown has a second team and when they were dropped I made Illawarra my second team. (I know people will flame me for having a second team).
My uncle was a real RL supporter but times were different I guess.

He played hooker in a game against Killer Kearney (a uni / teachers college or business houses type comp). “How’d you go?” “He killed me!”
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,965
Let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start.

The Structure of the 'Joint Venture' is all wrong and so, this needs to be the first problem to be addressed.:

1. Keep the name but separate the rolls, with Illawarra being given the role of junior development and pathways (including NSW Cup Competiton) and St Gorge being given the role of NRL team management.

2. St George has an NRL team and a reserve grade team with their home ground at Kogarah with an occasional game being played at WIN Stadium.

3. Selected junior pathway game to be played at WIN Stadium each weekend as a curtain raiser to the NSW Cup game.

4. St Gorge buys or establishes a St George Illawarra Junior Leagues Club located in Woolongong. and at the same time, buys all junior league clubs in the Illawarra Region and manages various competitions, and signs up Junior players in the Region. Much the same as they do at Penrith.

5. St Gorge Illawarra to lobby all influential supporters to upgrade WIN Stadium and the Kogarah Jubilee Stadium and grounds. Also, redevelop the TAJ and include commercial activity that will help with the funding of this project.

6. The St George Illawarra Board be restructured with directors heading off elements of the Club's 8 management departments e.g. head of:
Football
Marketing
Finance / Admin
Operations
Development
Sponsorship
Community Relations
Red V
Chairman

8. Have this new Board come up with a policy for future development. If necessary, bring in a third owner to attract some much need finance.

I agree.

But rather than competing in the comp, the dragons should be able to sit back & watch other teams fight for their approval to see if they’re worthy of being on the same stage as them.

Rather than giving the winner of the grand final a trophy, the dragons should be able to give the 👍or 👎 from the stands to determine if the losing team lives or dies.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
15,442
Illawarra / Steelers has been around a long time and exactly what have they done in all that time?

Won premierships?
Attracted great players?
Built a sustainable financial foundation?
Built a great ground?
Built a great club house?
Garnered great sponsors?

They went belly up FFS.

If some think the future is so bright with the Illawarra side of things lighting up the path forward then how come they have been so in the dark until now?

St George may have become a flee infested dog but that doesn't mean to say that the mangy tale gets to wag it.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,965
Illawarra / Steelers has been around a long time and exactly what have they done in all that time?

Won premierships?
Attracted great players?
Built a sustainable financial foundation?
Built a great ground?
Built a great club house?
Garnered great sponsors?

These are very valid questions.

If I ask the same questions of St George from 1982 to 1998, what would the answers be?
 

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