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New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

Gobsmacked

Bench
Messages
3,125
The Dolphins’ wrecking ball Valynce Te Whare is both the symptom and the solution to the NRL’s Beige Age: an era where talent is spread so thin, three clubs are in the top eight with 5-4 records.
The NRL likes this Any Given Sunday inconsistency where a bottom team beats a top one, but it’s a mistake to equate closeness of results with quality. This was evident in Magic Round when the last-placed Wests Tigers and Dragons met and it appeared neither team could find the panic button, let alone press it.
Even higher up the ladder, the Sharks’ defence parted for the Dolphins’ “Val Meninga” like peasants for a king.
The domination of the 22-year-old Kiwi who has spent a single season in the second tier Queensland Cup reflects the shallow talent pool in the NRL’s 17-club competition.

But Te Whare, who played rugby union in New Zealand, is also the solution to problem. If there is to be expansion, it must be from his homeland, but not until the ARLC funds the Warriors’ development program.
The Auckland-based team currently fields a team in the NSW State Cup competition and another in the SG Ball Under-19 league. But it doesn’t have a team in the NSWRL’s Jersey Flegg Under-21 competition. The age gap from Ball to NRL is too great.
The Warriors won three titles when the NRL ran an Under-20 competition, beginning in 2008 but abandoned in 2017 because of cost factors. Super Rugby teams in New Zealand and Australia aren’t interested in players in that age group. The Roosters’ Angus Crichton played rugby union at Scots College but was told that as a second-rower, he would not make the Waratahs until age 23-24. He played State of Origin for NSW at age 22.

Te Whare is an example of nominative determinism in that “whare” is the Maori name for house, and he resembles the proverbial brick outhouse type. Rather than rely on the canny qualities of NRL recruitment guys like the Dolphins’ Peter O’Sullivan, the ARLC should develop pathways for the young rugby union talent in New Zealand ahead of granting the country a second NRL licence.
NRL club CEOs were told at a recent meeting that the decision on an 18th team will be made in 12 months’ time, with the new club entering the competition in 2027/28.

The ARLC has floated in recent days the possibility of a second Victorian NRL team and a fifth Queensland one. Previously, they offered encouragement to the Perth Bears and a team based in Cairns, drawing on Polynesian and New Guinean talent, funded by the federal government to act as a bulwark against China’s expansion in the Pacific.
But no recent mention of a second New Zealand team, possibly based in Auckland to create a one-city, two-team rivalry.
The success of the Dolphins in their inaugural season has been cited as the justification for expansion. Much of the credit deservedly goes to coach Wayne Bennett, aka, Old Man Winner. However, the Dolphins have drained talent from other clubs, including signing half the Storm’s starting forward pack from the 2022 season.

Melbourne coach Craig Bellamy, despite his renowned ability to turn journeymen into champions, is struggling with the development of his forwards who were dominated by the Rabbitohs in Magic Round.
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Talent transfers across the NRL usually involve a player unwanted at one club signed as a top-30 player at another club. Yet when expansion is mentioned, the motivation is new broadcasting and betting markets, rarely the availability of talent.
Expansion is like El Nino. It causes extreme conditions. Rugby league witnessed this on the eve of the Super League war when the competition expanded by three teams.
But the evidence of the slow growth of the womens’ competition is that the ARLC learned from this. The NRLW has grown from four teams in 2018 to six in 2021, then to 10 teams in 2023. Ditto the NSWRL’s 12-team Under-18 womens’ Tarsha Gale Cup which began in 2017. Compare this with the AFLW which burst to 18 teams in a short period and is a vanilla offering.

Should the ARLC ignore a second New Zealand team in its expansion plans, the Commission deserves to be called the Omission.
Te Whare’s past is the signpost to the NRL’s future.

Thanks for that
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
Today...
Like I said
..
Gathering momentum


You think another Australian journalist, spruiking to an Australian audience, mentioning zero about anything actually happening in NZ is "Gathering momentum"????? Snails travelling uphill gather more "momentum".

I'm assuming we can say our last goodbye when NZ 2 gets the go ahead?

And I assume when NZ2 is not announced you will leave? What am I saying.... you would just back out, or sign in under yet another account.
 

Matua

First Grade
Messages
5,116
Hilarious - how many times has that one article been linked to today? Three times? I'm excluding @Perth Red as he helpfully posted the paywalled text.

Also, it's not really a positive article so why are you all excited about it? It's essentially saying that league should try and set up a pathway for failed NZ rugby players to help improve "shallow playing pool" (the articles words, not mine, I think the talent pool is fine) of the NRL.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,549
Hilarious - how many times has that one article been linked to today? Three times? I'm excluding @Perth Red as he helpfully posted the paywalled text.

Also, it's not really a positive article so why are you all excited about it? It's essentially saying that league should try and set up a pathway for failed NZ rugby players to help improve "shallow playing pool" (the articles words, not mine, I think the talent pool is fine) of the NRL.
TBF Masters has been off his game a while. Even in this article he has forgotten 4 teams came in in 1995 not 3.
Reading it I really struggled to see the link he was trying to make between the ex Union Dolphins centres debut and the need for a second Auckland club.
On one hand he seemed to be saying the quality of the comp is poor and it made him look good, on the other he seemed to be saying NRL should be in NZ finding more of him.
I dont think anyone is arguing that the ARLC shouldn't be investing more in NZ development and participation.
 
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Gobsmacked

Bench
Messages
3,125
The article is just another shift in attention to NZ . That's the point . Vossy came out in support for NZ the Toovey .. then Tallis..
It'll continue to increase because it's the right decision. The more time passes, the more people will realise.
The writings on the wall.
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
The article is just another shift in attention to NZ . That's the point . Vossy came out in support for NZ the Toovey .. then Tallis..
It'll continue to increase because it's the right decision. The more time passes, the more people will realise.
The writings on the wall.

Except in NZ of course.... which, is kinda important.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,549
The article is just another shift in attention to NZ . That's the point . Vossy came out in support for NZ the Toovey .. then Tallis..
It'll continue to increase because it's the right decision. The more time passes, the more people will realise.
The writings on the wall.
last week it was Melbourne2, month before Pasifika or Ipswich take your pick, this month with Warriors doing ok its NZ2, with the Perth double header on the horizon we have seen the first 2 Perth should be in articles which will no doubt increase over coming weeks. I wouldn't read anything into any of them until the ARLC commission officially tell us who and when.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
33,661
Hilarious - how many times has that one article been linked to today? Three times? I'm excluding @Perth Red as he helpfully posted the paywalled text.

Also, it's not really a positive article so why are you all excited about it? It's essentially saying that league should try and set up a pathway for failed NZ rugby players to help improve "shallow playing pool" (the articles words, not mine, I think the talent pool is fine) of the NRL.
Ofc it’s positive

it’s saying nz can be an even bigger nursery for talent than they already are

it highlights why nz2 should be the next team in
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
33,661
The article is just another shift in attention to NZ . That's the point . Vossy came out in support for NZ the Toovey .. then Tallis..
It'll continue to increase because it's the right decision. The more time passes, the more people will realise.
The writings on the wall.
Needs a strong bid consortium raising their hands
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,549
Ofc it’s positive

it’s saying nz can be an even bigger nursery for talent than they already are

it highlights why nz2 should be the next team in
Does it? Because this seems the crux of his argument and makes little sense.

'If there is to be expansion, it must be from his homeland, but not until the ARLC funds the Warriors’ development program.'

Why would funding the Warriors development program get Wellington or Christchurch ready for an NRL club?? They can only have one squad in each development age group comp.
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
Messages
40,359
It's not forcibly removed. Because of Telstra, the NRL has previously demanded the Warriors had to get a new sponsor, the fact the couldn't find one and Telstra relented, was the only reason the NRL backed down. Telstra is worth more to the NRL than the Warriors are. The NRL knows this, The Warriors know this, and I'm sure the CEO of One has now been told this.
The One NZ rebranding probably solves that problem though. Vodafone was a problem because the same brand competes with Telstra in the Australian market. One NZ as a brand name is irrelevant on this side of the ditch, as is Telstra in NZ, so there’s no competition issue currently.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,609
It's not really an 'article' it's an opinion piece from a now quite old League stalwart.

He says how weak the NRL is due to 5win 4loss teams being in the 8, but fails to provide the nuance of byes causing this. He calls the NRL beige and lacking talent. f**k, if Peter Fitzsimonns wrote this, people would be frothing at the mouth.

And on the basis of a sample size of 1 game, makes the decision that NZ should be the next expansion site, BUT only after substantial investment in the Warriors junior development???
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,549
It's not really an 'article' it's an opinion piece from a now quite old League stalwart.

He says how weak the NRL is due to 5win 4loss teams being in the 8, but fails to provide the nuance of byes causing this.
He also sees any team able to beat another as a bad thing and a sign of a lack of quality in the competition. Strange.
Its not the first time by any means Masters has put out some bizarre article. Shame he used to be one of the few journos worth reading.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
33,661
Does it? Because this seems the crux of his argument and makes little sense.

'If there is to be expansion, it must be from his homeland, but not until the ARLC funds the Warriors’ development program.'

Why would funding the Warriors development program get Wellington or Christchurch ready for an NRL club??
That’s the job of the Nzrl or until the arlc take them over

they don’t need better pathways just look at the union comps and bring the good ones over into our established systems

let union have the expensive cost of running younger aged competition nationally in nz and our clubs just cherry pick that like they did with the Whare

we don’t need to be rugby union mark 2 in nz

just sends more talent scouts to watch junior union games and carnivals
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,549
That’s the job of the Nzrl or until the arlc take them over

they don’t need better pathways just look at the union comps and bring the good ones over into our established systems

let union have the expensive cost of running younger aged competition nationally in nz and our clubs just cherry pick that like they did with the Whare

we don’t need to be rugby union mark 2 in nz

just sends more talent scouts to watch junior union games and carnivals
we know that, it appears Masters doesnt!
NZ needs better elite jnr clubs/systems across NZ bringing talent through for the 17 NRL clubs to pick up at 18. Until the ARLC ups the NZRL grant significantly we wont see that. Cant build that on $7mil a year revenue!
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
33,661
we know that, it appears Masters doesnt!
NZ needs better elite jnr clubs/systems across NZ bringing talent through for the 17 NRL clubs to pick up at 18. Until the ARLC ups the NZRL grant significantly we wont see that. Cant build that on $7mil a year revenue!
Masters has gone a bit grey since he’s been living in Melbourne

like I said we don’t need to replicate union

let them waste tens of millions a year finding the kids then we just cherry pick and throw them into Harold Matt’s etc which are already running

obviously nz2 will mean another 50 plus places for league players
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,549
He said just because the games are close doesn’t mean the standard is high
He seems to have a different opinion to everyone else going by tv ratings and crowds this season. Would fans rather watch a 18-16 close game between Tigers and Dragons or Storm or Roosters putting 50 points on someone? Personally I can cop a game being a bit lower quality if its close than watching a highly talented stacked team in non contests.
 

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