New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Matt_CBY]

Are you considered a junior if you don't actually play a match?

Anyway, here's young Tana talking about wanting to play for the Kiwis.

He was in a junior squad.

 

[Matua]

He was in a junior squad.

Well if you want to a pedant so you can claim he failed at league then go for your life.

 

[Matt_CBY]

Well if you want to a pedant so you can claim he failed at league then go for your life.

It’s not important to me either way but clearly a sore spot for you.

Dont worry about what strangers say online mate. It’s not worth it.

 

[Matua]

Investing more money into the nz game is a costly sinkhole which won’t do much

Until the nzrl get taken over by the arl it is what it is. The arl ageed with sky nz to guarantee nz two homes tests a year outside of wc years to make money off its up to the nzrl to get those right. Crowds for the kiwis are poor

Bringing in a second and third nrl side which have juniors from under 16 to reserve grade playing against the Aussies and paid for by nz and Australian tv companies is a whole different kettle of fish

Nrl always do top down and throw money at it to grow the game

Look, if you want the central thesis of this thread to happen then their needs to be investment in the NZ game, it's not going to happen otherwise.

Let's discuss this in terms of the claims in the DT articles you posted.

They repeat the point almost verbatim from the article from 6 months ago, that 26 or so players in the Warriors juniors squads come from rugby schools. Of course they do, because league is barely a schools game in NZ. There's probably only two or three schools that would be considered league schools. Without regular schools comps the majority of kids are going to still play rugby.

More dumb shit from George was his claim that wearing a representative jumper is limited in rugby until you play Super rugby. WTF???? There is provincial rep teams from U12's upwards (there's rep teams within provinces before that too), there's regional rep teams (partly based on Super teams), there's NZ U15s, Baabaas, Secondary Schools teams etc. Added to that that there's a National schools comp based on the Super teams with strong regional schools competitions under that. After school there's age grade Super comps and development comps. It's like the reporter had no interest in fact checking anything.

Bringing in one more NRL team and it's junior grades in 5 years time isn't going to get you to your goal of league taking over NZ. There needs to be a decent infrastructure so that the pathways aren't just try and get into the junior teams of the Warriors or possibly one other team or go to Australia. You need proper school league comps that aren't just a week long national tournament played in school holidays.

Top down only works as long as the Warriors are successful, investing in the school aged comps properly by the NRL is going to be more fruitful in the long run than hoping the Warriors are successful more often than not (because we all know the history of the Warriors).

The Kiwi crowds are relatively poor because NZers have lost faith in the international game. We should be looking to rebuild that rather than waving it away. TBH taking away Tongans from games in Oz and NZ and the crowds are poor.

 

[Matiunz]

Look, if you want the central thesis of this thread to happen then their needs to be investment in the NZ game, it's not going to happen otherwise.

Let's discuss this in terms of the claims in the DT articles you posted.

They repeat the point almost verbatim from the article from 6 months ago, that 26 or so players in the Warriors juniors squads come from rugby schools. Of course they do, because league is barely a schools game in NZ. There's probably only two or three schools that would be considered league schools. Without regular schools comps the majority of kids are going to still play rugby.

More dumb shit from George was his claim that wearing a representative jumper is limited in rugby until you play Super rugby. WTF???? There is provincial rep teams from U12's upwards (there's rep teams within provinces before that too), there's regional rep teams (partly based on Super teams), there's NZ U15s, Baabaas, Secondary Schools teams etc. Added to that that there's a National schools comp based on the Super teams with strong regional schools competitions under that. After school there's age grade Super comps and development comps. It's like the reporter had no interest in fact checking anything.

Bringing in one more NRL team and it's junior grades in 5 years time isn't going to get you to your goal of league taking over NZ. There needs to be a decent infrastructure so that the pathways aren't just try and get into the junior teams of the Warriors or possibly one other team or go to Australia. You need proper school league comps that aren't just a week long national tournament played in school holidays.

Top down only works as long as the Warriors are successful, investing in the school aged comps properly by the NRL is going to be more fruitful in the long run than hoping the Warriors are successful more often than not (because we all know the history of the Warriors).

The Kiwi crowds are relatively poor because NZers have lost faith in the international game. We should be looking to rebuild that rather than waving it away. TBH taking away Tongans from games in Oz and NZ and the crowds are poor.

100% adding NZ2 without doing the hard work at grass roots isn’t going to do too much.

The tired myth of ‘Warriors have a whole country to choose from, they should have had more success’ comes to mind- they don’t, they have 16 clubs vying for that same talent. If you’re a kid with a bit of talent you will get a much better league education in Australian schools and systems than you will get in the NZ equivalent. The NZ stronghold of league in Auckland has only 13 (out of 110) that offer league-13 schools… ties into another quote a couple of pages back that players are better playing in Australia- with the comparable resources they have of course they are- need to close that gap and fast.

At the moment the only draw of Warriors to an NZ kid is it being the ‘home’ team and being closer to home/family, without the hard work at grass roots NZ2 is just going to be another club with less to offer than Auckland vying for the same resources.

This flows into the disengagement of the kiwis, only a couple from the local team, many lived in Aus for much of their lives and are almost seen as non Aus players doesn’t hugely inspire national pride. Add to this essentially Kiwis in the Tongan/Samoa teams that don’t want to be associated with the team add to that perception. Also the NRLs over influence on the international game with games being officiated by only their officials and the likes of the bad old days where if a Kiwi and and a Kangaroo were up at the judiciary on the eve of a test you could bet the house on the kiwi getting suspended and the Kangaroo getting off, Aus clubs blocking kiwi internationals from playing just adds to the perception that it’s not a level playing field.

 

[Dark Corner]

Does anyone think New Zealand could support 3 NRL teams in the long term future with Wellington being the 3rd NZ team and make good use of Westpac Stadium.

 

[Wb1234]

Look, if you want the central thesis of this thread to happen then their needs to be investment in the NZ game, it's not going to happen otherwise.

Let's discuss this in terms of the claims in the DT articles you posted.

They repeat the point almost verbatim from the article from 6 months ago, that 26 or so players in the Warriors juniors squads come from rugby schools. Of course they do, because league is barely a schools game in NZ. There's probably only two or three schools that would be considered league schools. Without regular schools comps the majority of kids are going to still play rugby.

More dumb shit from George was his claim that wearing a representative jumper is limited in rugby until you play Super rugby. WTF???? There is provincial rep teams from U12's upwards (there's rep teams within provinces before that too), there's regional rep teams (partly based on Super teams), there's NZ U15s, Baabaas, Secondary Schools teams etc. Added to that that there's a National schools comp based on the Super teams with strong regional schools competitions under that. After school there's age grade Super comps and development comps. It's like the reporter had no interest in fact checking anything.

Bringing in one more NRL team and it's junior grades in 5 years time isn't going to get you to your goal of league taking over NZ. There needs to be a decent infrastructure so that the pathways aren't just try and get into the junior teams of the Warriors or possibly one other team or go to Australia. You need proper school league comps that aren't just a week long national tournament played in school holidays.

Top down only works as long as the Warriors are successful, investing in the school aged comps properly by the NRL is going to be more fruitful in the long run than hoping the Warriors are successful more often than not (because we all know the history of the Warriors).

The Kiwi crowds are relatively poor because NZers have lost faith in the international game. We should be looking to rebuild that rather than waving it away. TBH taking away Tongans from games in Oz and NZ and the crowds are poor.

George’s comments were bs

League doesn’t have the money to replicate the union system. You could argue union itself is struggling to fund the current system itself

Remember a lot of the junior funding in Australia is from leagues clubs, not the clubs or the arlc itself

The bartercard cup was an expensive failure for the nzrl

A second nz side grows league a lot.

But League is decades away if ever from overtaking union in nz

Right now it’s not about challenging union it’s about growing

There’s nothing stopping the nzrl investing more in the junior game if they make more money from test matches it’s not all on the arlc

Does anyone think New Zealand could support 3 NRL teams in the long term future with Wellington being the 3rd NZ team and make good use of Westpac Stadium.

Yes but it depends on how successful Perth png and nz2 are

Stadium in Wellington is a huge negative but they could also play games at Hamilton and other regional grounds

 

[Matiunz]

Does anyone think New Zealand could support 3 NRL teams in the long term future with Wellington being the 3rd NZ team and make good use of Westpac Stadium.

Think that’s the natural progression but need a good solid decade minimum to embed NZ2 first before we even think about NZ3
Social change with contact sports in the future could be a factor though

 

[bad boy bubby]

I agree with those in this thread that the NRL should take a more hands on role with NZRL.
I'm not saying this from a perspective of NZRL being run poorly etc.
I'm saying it from a perspective of where Rugby League, and it's competitions, have come from the last 40 years in Australia.
The NSWRL grew stronger than the QRL which eventuated in Brisbane being incorporated into that competition.
With the advent of expansion the NSWRL competition became the ARL and then the NRL, with the State bodies, NSWRL and QRL, coming under the NRL umbrella.
Now look at the strength that has provided for the code as a whole. It has become marketably stronger, especially in juniors and pathways.
If the NRL had NZRL in the same scope, with the same directions, it could only be a plus for the code altogether.

This is not a put down of NZRL, more an observation on how the game could prosper massively if NZRL was involved as much as NSWRL and QRL are, and got similar funding.

 

[flippikat]

Think that’s the natural progression but need a good solid decade minimum to embed NZ2 first before we even think about NZ3
Social change with contact sports in the future could be a factor though

The last point about contact sports is a good one, considering we have two strong A-league mens clubs at the moment - and if that keeps up, it may encourage that sport to further expand here.

 

[Matiunz]

The last point about contact sports is a good one, considering we have two strong A-league mens clubs at the moment - and if that keeps up, it may encourage that sport to further expand here.

pleasantly surprised at Auckland not being shit after the awful last iteration they had.

The big one in terms of ‘social change’ is around the concussion problems seen with NFL, the sanitisation of Union with the red card over reaction contact sports seem terrified of legal action, so far League has resisted change but with looking at things like the kick return rules etc you can tell they’re going to have to face it sooner or later. I fear how far these things will go and effect on contact sports in the future. Can guess we’ve already seen a level of it if we compare today’s game to the biff of say mid 90s and earlier.

 

[Dark Corner]

Think that’s the natural progression but need a good solid decade minimum to embed NZ2 first before we even think about NZ3
Social change with contact sports in the future could be a factor though

If Boxing, MMA, Muay Thai and even WE Wrestling issn't impacted by social change then NRL, NFL, Ice Hockey should remain firm.