New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Matua]

Look at the depth of the kiwis today they don’t need to pick halves out of reserve grade (Olsen filipanna)

We've picked non halves as halves since the arrival of the Warriors. Tohu Harris has played in the halves FFS.

Filipaina was only in reserve grade because the Oz coaches at the time weren't as used to dealing with Poly players.

 

[Wb1234]

We've picked non halves as halves since the arrival of the Warriors. Tohu Harris has played in the halves FFS.

Filipaina was only in reserve grade because the Oz coaches at the time weren't as used to dealing with Poly players.

Yeh but look at this year

No Hughes and can’t remember who the other guy that was missing who was good

When did they have that depth ?

And how many players picked Tonga and Samoa which five year ago or more would’ve picked nz

 

[Wb1234]

Oh I have no doubt the Auckland clubs would have always fallen away and struggled to keep up with the advancement of professionalism and sports science.
The point still stands that the game in NZ is in a worse state now than pre Warriors days , 95 Warriors hype was a squandered opportunity of massive growth -although it seems to be going in the right direction finally

I just can’t believe that league is worse off In nz pre warriors. How do you measure what the warriors have achieved v what the old clubs achieved ?

How many world cups or finals did the kiwis win ?

Every local comp that got an nrl / arl / nswrl side has diminished by becoming a feeder league to the top level

 

[Gobsmacked]

I just can’t believe that league is worse off In nz pre warriors. How do you measure what the warriors have achieved v what the old clubs achieved ?

How many world cups or finals did the kiwis win ?

Every local comp that got an nrl / arl / nswrl side has diminished by becoming a feeder league to the top level

You actually bothered to respond to this? Seriously.

 

[Matiunz]

Yeh but look at this year

No Hughes and can’t remember who the other guy that was missing who was good

When did they have that depth ?

And how many players picked Tonga and Samoa which five year ago or more would’ve picked nz

Not sure this year was the best year to use to make that point-
We were forced to play CNK out of position at 6, send an sos to get SJ out of retirement, play a player from the ESL for the first time in close to a decade and Debut 8 players.
We went from champions to loosing to Tonga and getting a fright in the first half of a relegation game in the space of a year.
Depth was well and truely stretched, although there were some shining lights in the emergence of Kini and McClean in particular

 

[Matiunz]

I just can’t believe that league is worse off In nz pre warriors. How do you measure what the warriors have achieved v what the old clubs achieved ?

How many world cups or finals did the kiwis win ?

Every local comp that got an nrl / arl / nswrl side has diminished by becoming a feeder league to the top level

I guess measure of success can be subjective.
One reason the Warriors came in was to give local players an option and to stem the flow of NZ players away from NZ comps- the opposite happened.
There was an opportunity with a local provincial comp to grow engagement- this is no longer with us.
The local playing numbers shrunk
Players went to Aus at a younger age which weakened the local comps.
From that perspective the local game went backwards post Warriors.

Pre Warriors France and PNG were closer in Standard, GB was also much more competitive.
The shift of the global game moved much more towards Australia and while Australia thrived the local game in other countries withered and struggled.

Yes recently the PIs have improved in standard internationally but like the kiwis this has been on the back of the Australian teams and not that of domestic leagues. The gap in ESL has also grown over this time and whilst it’s great to see the NRL thriving if the game wants to grow globally we need other countries to raise their game.

Guess the net gain has been increased kiwis success but that’s largely down to Australia and very little to do with the game in NZ

 

[Wb1234]

You’ve got a pool of potentially 100 kiwi nrl players playing at the elite level

Would local playing numbers be so dire if Aussie clubs didn’t poach so many

Nz can’t support a pro club union comp how would league do it ? It’s a small rugby market

Remember the bartercard cup and the money it lost

What happened to Npc crowds when super rugby came in ?

And isn’t union struggling for playing numbers ? Lower juniors in both rugby are happening

 

[Matua]

I just can’t believe that league is worse off In nz pre warriors. How do you measure what the warriors have achieved v what the old clubs achieved ?

How many world cups or finals did the kiwis win ?

Every local comp that got an nrl / arl / nswrl side has diminished by becoming a feeder league to the top level

I think you're just looking at the shopfront, the Warriors, whereas the overall game itself in NZ is a lot weaker.

The local comps in NZ aren't really feeder leagues to the the top level. The majority of players who go to Oz (and even the Warriors) come out of school, and as often as not they have rugby backgrounds.

The Auckland league scene was way more vibrant in the past, and as I've mentioned often the game is nearly dead where I'm from, reduced to a small number of gang dominated teams.

And isn’t union struggling for playing numbers ? Lower juniors in both rugby are happening

IIRC both league and rugby increased players this year. But rugby has roughly 150k players v leagues 25 odd k players.

 

[Wb1234]

twittger.com

This domain may be for sale!

teitter.com

Anyone got the Moffatt bit ?

 

[BuffaloRules]

Abdo has spoken to Lowe last week …apparently told him they “are totally committed to NZ and we will talk early next year“ ….not much further than that ….

 

[MugaB]

Abdo has spoken to Lowe last week …apparently told him they “are totally committed to NZ and we will talk early next year“ ….not much further than that ….

Careful now the Karen crew might open up a can of, what if there isn't enough of this or that, and a bunch of what ifs

 

[Wb1234]

Cmon Moffatt make a late charge to the front and beat those shysters from the orcas

Those comments from abdo would say nz2 is basically locked in and they could announce it next year

 

[taste2taste]

cut n paste from the tele

Warriors owner Mark Robinson believe the game is 10 to 15 years away from being able to expand into New Zealand with a second team to rival the Warriors.

Moffett disagrees.

“The Warriors – a team with 30 years of underachievement both on and off the field – are suddenly the self-appointed gatekeepers of rugby league in New Zealand,” Moffett said. “Yet now they suddenly have the vision to ‘take over’ the country?

“Spare us. Their notion of monopolising New Zealand rugby league is as bizarre as it is delusional. They don’t run rugby league in New Zealand; they merely occupy a seat they’ve done little to earn.”

The Kea would be based in Christchurch.

They weren’t the only bid from New Zealand rejected.

Moffett said a second team would help grow the game.

“Their CEO speaks of five feeder teams travelling to Australia, as if this is a unique burden, ignoring the fact that their current structure has done little to elevate the domestic game,” Moffett said.

“They’ve had three decades to invest in pathways, facilities and grassroots development, and what do they have to show for it?

“A stagnant monopoly that has failed to grow the game in meaningful ways.

“A genuine South Island rival wouldn’t just challenge the Warriors on the field – it would reinvigorate their entire organisation.

“Rivalries ignite passion, sell tickets and drive sponsorships.”

 

[BuffaloRules]

I don’t think NZ2 will be in until 2030 … the clubs are shaky about playing stocks already with two new teams coming in for 2027 and 28

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Nerdo Moffett with a hissy fit.

 

[LightLizard]

I've never said it wont be a good thing, but the this thread gets carried away with the hyperbole, and the post I responded to was all hyperbole.

NZ player numbers are an issue if the aim of the thread title is to be achievable. You can't deal the blow to rugby if the majority of the kids are playing rugby and there's no decent league comps in NZ for the kids to play in outside of the two elite teams at each age level.

Union and League are totally inter-changeable. Hundreds of kids play 1st 15 union for their schools on a Wednesday – then turn out for their League club on Sat/Sundays.
Go to any major League game – Test – NRL in NZ and you will see hundreds of Union people in their Union colours watching.
Just saying. ????

 

[Wb1234]

Union and League are totally inter-changeable. Hundreds of kids play 1st 15 union for their schools on a Wednesday – then turn out for their League club on Sat/Sundays.
Go to any major League game – Test – NRL in NZ and you will see hundreds of Union people in their Union colours watching.
Just saying. ????

That’s exactly why the arl don’t need to spend so much money on the local nz rl game

They can just cherry pick the union system whilst they spend the big bucks on maintaining an expensive junior base

 

[LightLizard]

Maybe the grassroots will grow with NZ2, but there was negative growth under the Warriors. From day one of this thread I've been pointing out how perilous the domestic game is in NZ, and that the 2023 hype train will need to be built on (and the cracks of that hype are already being shown). Otherwise rugby is still the best development for league players in NZ as that's where the most professional development can be found - a prime example being Tohu Harris who learnt how to be a (professional) sportsman playing rugby at school and how to be a league player in the Storm system.

But, despite that I'd like to see the domestic game built back up so that the area where Tohu and I are from actually has a decent comp again.

The Canterbury Bulls won last years National Premier League Final . The Christchurch School (St Thomas of Canterbury College) has won the National Schools Premier League for the last two years. So there is talent in the "Grassroots of Canterbury / Christchurch League. And the Bulldogs and the Warriors have already signed a few of those boys up for their development squads.

 

[Matua]

Union and League are totally inter-changeable. Hundreds of kids play 1st 15 union for their schools on a Wednesday – then turn out for their League club on Sat/Sundays.
Go to any major League game – Test – NRL in NZ and you will see hundreds of Union people in their Union colours watching.
Just saying. ????

Um, this is a NZ thread, 1st XV is mostly played Saturdays, league on Sundays.

Also, not sure what you're "just saying" point is - I've been saying since this thread began there's no clear us v them in NZ.

Also, what's up with the new multi? Forget your password?

 

[BuffaloRules]

Um, this is a NZ thread, 1st XV is mostly played Saturdays, league on Sundays.

As long as there is a healthy Union junior base for the new NZ league team to raid for their own pathways …. I got no problem with what day they play on ..