New Zealand - what should the plan be?

[flippikat]

I've started a thread on Brisbane 2 bids, and the Central Coast, but I think it's time I start a thread that's a little closer to my own heart - a New Zealand thread.

The key question I wanna ask here is "What's the future of NZ in the NRL?" - I'll start the focus on NRL, but I'm sure there'll be drift into 2nd tier discussions (eg should there be NZ teams in NSW/Qld cup.. or should NRL get more involved in the NZ domestic scene?) - and probably lots of stuff beyond that.. but let's start at NRL level.

It'll be good to see a cross-section of ideas, suggestions & opinions from the Australian RL fanbase here about how us folk in the 'Shaky Isles' fit into the picture.

Some starter questions...

* Should a 2nd NZ NRL team happen? When?
* If a 2nd NRL team is needed, where would you locate a 2nd NZ NRL team?
* Should a 2nd NZ team be an original team, or a relocated team?
* Should NZ have more than 2 teams? If so, how many, where & when? Would these be original or relocated teams?

Naturally, being Wellington born & bred myself I'd love to see a capital city club in the NRL - games would be just a 30 minute train-trip away from my home in Lower Hutt instead of a flight to Auckland - but I'm keen to canvass opinions of others here.

[edit] I realise Covid makes this a particularly murky crystal-ball to gaze into, but let's assume that a vaccine is developed & rolled-out in the next 1-2 years, for planning's sake

 

[Perth Red]

Rape the country for its young talent, withdraw funding from nzrl, stiff the warriors whenever possible. Seems about MO at the moment.

 

[flippikat]

Rape the country for its young talent, withdraw funding from nzrl, stiff the warriors whenever possible. Seems about MO at the moment.

Bleak, but accurate.

On the flip side, what would you do to change that if you were benevolent dictator of the NRL, PR?

 

[Perth Red]

Bleak, but accurate.

On the flip side, what would you do to change that if you were benevolent dictator of the NRL, PR?

id give the nzrl a seat on the commission
increase their funding so they can invest a top quality second tier in nz and a decent RL schools program.
Then I’d have a strategy to introduce a second nz nrl team in next ten years.
id be supporting warriors to lobby for upgrades to stadium
I’d have money available to tempt australian clubs to take as many games around nz as possible, and play them in the friday night 6pm slot
I’d have an annual kangaroos v nz test match on Anzac Day Played in nz.
I’d have a Southern Hemisphere cup every two years featuring nz, Tonga, png, Fiji, Samoa and australia
I’d get nrl on fta in nz

That’d be a good start!

 

[flippikat]

id give the nzrl a seat on the commission
increase their funding so they can invest a top quality second tier in nz and a decent RL schools program.
Then I’d have a strategy to introduce a second nz nrl team in next ten years.
id be supporting warriors to lobby for upgrades to stadium
I’d have money available to tempt australian clubs to take as many games around nz as possible, and play them in the friday night 6pm slot
I’d have an annual kangaroos v nz test match on Anzac Day Played in nz.
I’d have a Southern Hemisphere cup every two years featuring nz, Tonga, png, Fiji, Samoa and australia
I’d get nrl on fta in nz

That’d be a good start!

That's a great start. I just get the feeling that NZ gets taken for granted as just a pipeline of talent & a "nice little earner on the side" as far as revenue goes.. but we offer a dimension that AFL can only dream of, and I think the NRL can REALLY capitalise on the NZ market *if they put more thought & effort into us*

 

[Perth Red]

That's a great start. I just get the feeling that NZ gets taken for granted as just a pipeline of talent & a "nice little earner on the side" as far as revenue goes.. but we offer a dimension that AFL can only dream of, and I think the NRL can REALLY capitalise on the NZ market *if they put more thought & effort into us*

no different to png, though a bit more commercial opportunity in nz.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

NZ does get taken for granted. The NRL wouldn't be the juggernaut it is without the the quality New Zealanders playing in it.

A New Zealander gave us the joy of seeing Cam Smith get hit in the nuts a couple of years ago.

I honestly believe NZ needs to have 3 teams. There's only 2 other football codes in NZ competing with RL, so why waste time and money on teams in Perth and Adelaide that will not deliver what NZ can guarantee?

Three teams in NZ will provide derbies and more exposure to the game. It will provide RU juniors with the option to earn big bucks playing RL while staying close to family. Three teams will make the NZ broadcast rights more valuable.

Anything that makes the NZ national team stronger will build interest in Test football. If we want the RLWC to generate more interest and money into the game then NZ needs to be a genuine threat to the Kangaroos each time they play.

RL can bridge the gap between it and RU in NZ. Three teams have a better chance of doing it than one.

 

[flippikat]

I honestly believe NZ needs to have 3 teams. There's only 2 other football codes in NZ competing with RL, so why waste time and money on teams in Perth and Adelaide that will not deliver what NZ can guarantee?

Three teams in NZ will provide derbies and more exposure to the game. It will provide RU juniors with the option to earn big bucks playing RL while staying close to family. Three teams will make the NZ broadcast rights more valuable.

Anything that makes the NZ national team stronger will build interest in Test football. If we want the RLWC to generate more interest and money into the game then NZ needs to be a genuine threat to the Kangaroos each time they play.

RL can bridge the gap between it and RU in NZ. Three teams have a better chance of doing it than one.

Yeah, my personal opinion is that NZ could comfortably be home to 3 NRL teams
- Auckland (Warriors)
- South Island (based in Christchurch, a game or two per year in Dunedin and/or Nelson, and a pre-season game per year on the West Coast.
- 2nd North Island team.

Now, the 2nd North Island team is the tricky one to decide on.. you could argue for either..

* Wellington (with some games in Palmerston North, New Plymouth & Napier - pretty much the original super rugby Hurricanes area before New Plymouth/Taranaki joined the Chiefs) OR

* Hamilton/Tauranga/Rotorua "Waikato/Bay of Plenty" - big population centres here.

I personally would be tempted to draw the line at Lake Taupo, and have a Wellington-based team playing a couple of games out in the regions per year, and the Warriors (Northern North Island) taking a game each year to Hamilton and a game each year to Tauranga or Rotorua... but maybe that's just my personal bias talking there.. hehehe

 

[LeagueXIII]

Pete v will send gus as part of his new role to sort it all out....

 

[Perth Tiger]

I’m Perth based and would love and NRL team based here, but if the 17th team is in Qld, I think NZ would be best placed for the 18th team, particularly if we could capitalise on RU weakness (financial) at the moment.

 

[flippikat]

I’m Perth based and would love and NRL team based here, but if the 17th team is in Qld, I think NZ would be best placed for the 18th team, particularly if we could capitalise on RU weakness (financial) at the moment.

Good point, and while RU in Australia seems to be at a lower ebb than NZ RU, let's not forget that NZR's two big cash cows (Super Rugby & the All Blacks) have had their revenue streams severely kneecapped by the pandemic.

Yes, Super Rugby Aotearoa has been drawing huge crowds here.. but the money is in TV, and without overseas TV-friendly timezones of traditional Super Rugby, that revenue is limited.

The All Blacks biggest hope is that they can host some kind of home series this year. Now that the Argentina squad has Covid cases, the hope that the whole championship may be staged here is starting to fade, and I'm sure NZR are scrambling to try and *at least* get the Wallabies over for some games.

If the NRL can get a 2nd club here soon, it might be a good leg-up for RL in NZ at a time when Union has some serious challenges.

 

[Perth Tiger]

Good point, and while RU in Australia seems to be at a lower ebb than NZ RU, let's not forget that NZR's two big cash cows (Super Rugby & the All Blacks) have had their revenue streams severely kneecapped by the pandemic.

Yes, Super Rugby Aotearoa has been drawing huge crowds here.. but the money is in TV, and without overseas TV-friendly timezones of traditional Super Rugby, that revenue is limited.

The All Blacks biggest hope is that they can host some kind of home series this year. Now that the Argentina squad has Covid cases, the hope that the whole championship may be staged here is starting to fade, and I'm sure NZR are scrambling to try and *at least* get the Wallabies over for some games.

If the NRL can get a 2nd club here soon, it might be a good leg-up for RL in NZ at a time when Union has some serious challenges.

Yeah, if NZ can have 2 or even 3 NRL teams funded with Aus and NZ TV money verses NZ RU teams that are only funded with NZ TV money there would be a huge financial incentive for juniors to start to come through the NRL clubs system .

It wont ever beat the mystique for Kiwis to play for the All blacks but it will be enough to strength our playing numbers and strengthen the Kiwis to further develop the Kiwi/Kangaroo/other test matches.

Perth can give us a better timeslot (for Aus viewers), and broader reach in Aus and a small increase in playing numbers but I feel the potential pay off of NZ is greater

 

[ash the bash]

If we are talking "hypothetical" ideal scenarios for future Kiwi teams in NRL.

Would go with Warriors & South Pacific Cyclones based in Auckland. Similar thinking to 17th team in Brisbane a game each week in Auckland. Tap the biggest market/corporate base in NZ.

3rd team would be the Orcas based in new Christchurch stadium (23k-25k) and a couple of games in Dunedin.

Personally would not put a team in Wellington.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Is Gus Gould’s appointment designed to build pathways for RL into the Warriors?

I assumed so, and as such if they can build a huge league nursery I think a 2nd NZ team would be worth considering.

So basically, if/when the Warriors are a sustainable powerhouse flooded with talent coming from the juniors then a team from Wellington etc could be a great move. And that nursery would also include pathways from the pacific islands I’d think.

 

[Perth Red]

Is Gus Gould’s appointment designed to build pathways for RL into the Warriors?

I assumed so, and as such if they can build a huge league nursery I think a 2nd NZ team would be worth considering.

So basically, if/when the Warriors are a sustainable powerhouse flooded with talent coming from the juniors then a team from Wellington etc could be a great move. And that nursery would also include pathways from the pacific islands I’d think.

looking at the quality of kiwis in australian teams I’d suggest the problem is identification and retention of kiwi talent, not the amount being produced!

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

looking at the quality of kiwis in australian teams I’d suggest the problem is identification and retention of kiwi talent, not the amount being produced!

Good point made. I’d be interested to know some stats on when these players have moved over, age groups etc.

But part of the pathways is to identify and retain talent so it’s inclusive of the gig. At the moment I wouldn’t know what is in place.

 

[mikeob]

Warriors winning and playing with heart and effort when they don't win will be a good place to start.

 

[Perth Red]

Good point made. I’d be interested to know some stats on when these players have moved over, age groups etc.

But part of the pathways is to identify and retain talent so it’s inclusive of the gig. At the moment I wouldn’t know what is in place.

even if you just took the kiwis from my team and put them in warriors it would make them regularly top 4 team. Warriors need to be the club every kiwi, wether in Australia or nz dreams of running out for. It’s not lack of kiwi jnrs that’s the problem for warriors.

Big Nelson signed at 15years from Wellington
Brandon Smith signed from Townsville where he moved as a kid
Jesse and Kenny Bromwich from Auckland Jesse signed @20 Kenny @16
Jahrome Hughes from Wellington signed for roosters at 16
Albert Vete Jnr kiwi signed from the warriors
Felise Kaufisi signed from cowboys, moved to australia when kid
Kelma Tuilagi yet to make first grade debut

 

[The Great Dane]

Honestly the best thing that could happen in NZ is if there was a local national competition in NZ, but the NZRL is incompetent and the NRL doesn't have the balls or the vision to do it themselves, so it will never happen.

 

[Mr Angry]

Win