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Non Footy Chat Thread II

Poupou Escobar

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I'd say it has, a voice is important in addressing your grievances, you may disagree.
Voting gives people a voice? Then why do we have political protests? Is that for people want an extra voice?

The fact is that voting rights are symbolic for minorities. They get the politics of the majority, whether they vote or not. The reason voting rights are important for minorities is because IT IS WRONG for governments to treat people differently based on their race. Not because it gives them a voice.

Don't confuse suffrage (voting rights for the female majority) with voting rights for ethnic minorities.
 
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My actual question is why do the connotations need to change? Will changing the date change historical events? Is it not better to recognise what has happened and use it in repairing those events?

Changing the date obviously doesn't change the historical event (nor would never having had a celebration on that date). What it does is change the fact that a celebration is held on the day that some people were dispossessed (or the start of the dispossession process occurred). Why do you need to keep Aus Day on January 26 to recognise what happened and try to repair the effect of those events? I don't get the necessary connection between those issues. It's not about ceasing to recognise what has happened. It is about divorcing that recognition from a concurrent celebration. I'd call it good manners.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
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33,127
Voting gives people a voice? Then why do we have political protests? Is that for people want an extra voice?

The fact is that voting rights are symbolic for minorities. They get the politics of the majority, whether they vote or not. The reason voting rights are important for minorities is because IT IS WRONG for governments to treat people differently based on their race. Not because it gives them a voice.

Don't confuse suffrage (voting rights for the female majority) with voting rights for ethnic minorities.

Yes voting gives people a voice in a democracy, that doesn't automatically mean it's heard, so those who feel their voice isn't heard enough, or would like their voice to be louder will protest, organise, join the process, whatever.

The right to vote also came with the right to participate, and the right to participate has come with the ability to represent.

On minorities, you might recognise that many live in enclaves, where they often become the majority in that particular area, and given our parliamentary system appoints representatives by area, it can often follow that those areas elect representatives that reflect the population of those areas.

This is evident in the diversity of our parliament, don't confuse inequality with a lack of progress towards equality.
 

84 Baby

Referee
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23,560
If you lived in a shared house and your birthday was on the same day as a housemates parents death and they said to you they'd like to celebrate but don't feel right being their parents died that day then would you be happy to celebrate your birthday the following week so your Housemate could also enjoy it?
Did I kill their parent?
Do I need to include them in celebrations or can I celebrate separate from them?

Trivialising the Australia Day question into yours is trivial.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
23,560
Changing the date obviously doesn't change the historical event (nor would never having had a celebration on that date). What it does is change the fact that a celebration is held on the day that some people were dispossessed (or the start of the dispossession process occurred). Why do you need to keep Aus Day on January 26 to recognise what happened and try to repair the effect of those events? I don't get the necessary connection between those issues. It's not about ceasing to recognise what has happened. It is about divorcing that recognition from a concurrent celebration. I'd call it good manners.
I’d say the connection of issues is very strong. How much do you hear Change The Date, Always Was Always Will Be or about indigenous affairs outside mid-late January?
If changing the date was part of a larger indigenous recognition plan then great, but I think if it is changed, the new date will have no cultural reference and the reason it was moved would quickly be forgotten.
 

Poupou Escobar

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71,299
Yes voting gives people a voice in a democracy, that doesn't automatically mean it's heard, so those who feel their voice isn't heard enough, or would like their voice to be louder will protest, organise, join the process, whatever.

The right to vote also came with the right to participate, and the right to participate has come with the ability to represent.

On minorities, you might recognise that many live in enclaves, where they often become the majority in that particular area, and given our parliamentary system appoints representatives by area, it can often follow that those areas elect representatives that reflect the population of those areas.

This is evident in the diversity of our parliament, don't confuse inequality with a lack of progress towards equality.
But they are equal. They have the same rights as every other Australian. How could they be made more equal under the law? There is nothing else. The only area they are unequal is demographics, which isn't government's place to correct. How could it? Non-indigenous Australians aren't a homogenous group. How could a government enforce parity between groups of people numbering in the hundreds of thousands?
 

hineyrulz

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131,066
But they are equal. They have the same rights as every other Australian. How could they be made more equal under the law? There is nothing else. The only area they are unequal is demographics, which isn't government's place to correct. How could it? Non-indigenous Australians aren't a homogenous group. How could a government enforce parity between groups of people numbering in the hundreds of thousands?
Socialism baby!!!!
 

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