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Not enough Talent ?

10$ Ferret

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Staff member
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Well there has been plenty of discussion about if there is enough player talent, I think a bigger issue is there is not enough refereeing talent. Hell give what I have seen this year there is no talent to run the games there currently is
 
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12,690
Well there has been plenty of discussion about if there is enough player talent, I think a bigger issue is there is not enough refereeing talent. Hell give what I have seen this year there is no talent to run the games there currently is
I'm convinced the referees are forced to favour the stronger teams on 50/50 calls and manufacture penalties to control the flow of the game. Allowing betting agencies to invest in the game gives the NRL a strong incentive to control the result and winning margin so the bookies don't lose a fortune.

Broadcasters determine who plays who and when they play because it helps them maximise ratings. I cannot see the betting agencies not having similar control.
 

Perth Red

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65,849
Problem is they keep stuffing about with the “interpretations” of the rules and giving the refs no hope of actually controlling a game properly anymore. Add in the fact they are expected to coach players to try and prevent penalties, training t9 be matey matey with the players, tv showing 600 replays of every decision in super slo mo, commentators slagging them off even when they are right and the commentators are wrong, vr eroding their confidence and touchies who do next to nothing and you’ve got a sht show. Why anyone would want to be a ref is beyond me.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,442
Well there has been plenty of discussion about if there is enough player talent, I think a bigger issue is there is not enough refereeing talent. Hell give what I have seen this year there is no talent to run the games there currently is
I'd also question coaching depth. A really good coach like Bellamy can get amazing results out of journeyman players.

Now.. while it's maybe far fetched to expect 16 coaches of that standard, you can see a huge gulf between the best & worst in the league.. and expansion will really test that.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,562
I'd also question coaching depth. A really good coach like Bellamy can get amazing results out of journeyman players.

Now.. while it's maybe far fetched to expect 16 coaches of that standard, you can see a huge gulf between the best & worst in the league.. and expansion will really test that.
I agree on the coach issue

We have 250 players graduating from U21s every season

Its a development issue
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,442
I agree on the coach issue

We have 250 players graduating from U21s every season

Its a development issue
Yep, and that's the part that people overlook.

A great head coach knows how to spot raw, unrefined talent.. sign those players fast.. develop them at the right intensity through the lower grades.. then have them ready to tear it up in first grade.

The best coaches know how to develop players, not just come up with gameplans for players that are already established.
 
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12,690
I'd also question coaching depth. A really good coach like Bellamy can get amazing results out of journeyman players.

Now.. while it's maybe far fetched to expect 16 coaches of that standard, you can see a huge gulf between the best & worst in the league.. and expansion will really test that.
We have clubs signing assistants of Bellamy, presumably on the belief they'll bring his tactics and discipline with them and turn their teams into the Storm. Problem is he works longer hours than anyone else and is not content with winning. He wants perfection and cracks down hard on anyone who isn't improving their game or isn't following the script. He's a visionary who can change his game plan to suit the environment and is able to get players to play their role in the system. The assistants who serve under him lack the vision and drive needed to be one step ahead of the field. We've seen Kearney, Walters, O'Brien, Young and God knows how many other blokes get a role as a head coach after serving under Bellamy, but none of them have replicated his ability to turn mid-tier teams into the Storm. It's a culture thing and only special people like Bellamy and Bennett can pull it off. Players do things for Bellamy and Bennett that they wouldn't dream of doing for any other coach.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,442
We have clubs signing assistants of Bellamy, presumably on the belief they'll bring his tactics and discipline with them and turn their teams into the Storm. Problem is he works longer hours than anyone else and is not content with winning. He wants perfection and cracks down hard on anyone who isn't improving their game or isn't following the script. He's a visionary who can change his game plan to suit the environment and is able to get players to play their role in the system. The assistants who serve under him lack the vision and drive needed to be one step ahead of the field. We've seen Kearney, Walters, O'Brien, Young and God knows how many other blokes get a role as a head coach after serving under Bellamy, but none of them have replicated his ability to turn mid-tier teams into the Storm. It's a culture thing and only special people like Bellamy and Bennett can pull it off. Players do things for Bellamy and Bennett that they wouldn't dream of doing for any other coach.
Exactly. It's the whole "plant grafting" idea - gardiners take a piece of a plant, plant it, grow a new plant.

Problem is, coaches aren't plants - and you can't simply "graft" one of the Storm's assistant coaches onto a mediocre club and think it'll fix everything.
 
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12,690
Exactly. It's the whole "plant grafting" idea - gardiners take a piece of a plant, plant it, grow a new plant.

Problem is, coaches aren't plants - and you can't simply "graft" one of the Storm's assistant coaches onto a mediocre club and think it'll fix everything.
Clubs need to realise that character is just as important as talent. A group of disciplined players who buy into the culture and give 100% for their team is the bare minimum for success.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,442
Clubs need to realise that character is just as important as talent. A group of disciplined players who buy into the culture and give 100% for their team is the bare minimum for success.
You got it- How many times have we seen clubs with few superstars punch above their weight because that "team spirit" effectively becomes a 14th man on the field?
 
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Perth Red

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65,849
Always interesting to hear Cronk talk about why Storm are so successful. He puts it down to one simple thing, they train harder than anyone else. That's physically and in practicing defensive and attacking moves. Every player knows there job and sticks to it. And Storm go out and find players that buy into that. You can see in Bellamy he takes no prisoners and never accepts anything other than total best.

I get the sense in a lot of clubs players just dont have that same attitude and the coaches dont really insist on it in the same way. Madge at Tigers is a good example. How much whinging have we heard from players there about him working them too hard. If Madge could recruit players with the right attitude the Tigers would be top 4.
 
Messages
12,690
Always interesting to hear Cronk talk about why Storm are so successful. He puts it down to one simple thing, they train harder than anyone else. That's physically and in practicing defensive and attacking moves. Every player knows there job and sticks to it. And Storm go out and find players that buy into that. You can see in Bellamy he takes no prisoners and never accepts anything other than total best.

I get the sense in a lot of clubs players just dont have that same attitude and the coaches dont really insist on it in the same way. Madge at Tigers is a good example. How much whinging have we heard from players there about him working them too hard. If Madge could recruit players with the right attitude the Tigers would be top 4.
Todd Peyton is doing this at NQ. Defensively, Cowboys have improved in leaps and bounds and it's all due to attitude.
 

Iamback

Coach
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17,203
Well there has been plenty of discussion about if there is enough player talent, I think a bigger issue is there is not enough refereeing talent. Hell give what I have seen this year there is no talent to run the games there currently is

I think refs have been told to help stop blowouts.
Ruck speed is poor, Rubbish calls

Lack of coaches too
 
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12,690
The Warriors made a huge mistake in losing Todd. He's gonna get great results at the Cowboys over the next few years.
COVID-19 has really hurt the Warriors. A few Magic Rounds should be played in New Zealand over the next five years. There's no point in having it in Brisbane anymore.
 

Perth Red

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65,849
I think refs have been told to help stop blowouts.
Ruck speed is poor, Rubbish calls

Lack of coaches too
I think its at a reasonable point now. Was ridiculous last year, like watching nines but not as close! You cant have 110kg blokes running around like its touch! The six agains are still totally random though it would seem. Bringing back the penalty kick has also helped the lessor teams I suspect to not get so blown away. Its a good equalizer for the ref to use lol.
 

Iamback

Coach
Messages
17,203
I think its at a reasonable point now. Was ridiculous last year, like watching nines but not as close! You cant have 110kg blokes running around like its touch! The six agains are still totally random though it would seem. Bringing back the penalty kick has also helped the lessor teams I suspect to not get so blown away. Its a good equalizer for the ref to use lol.

Refs shouldn't be an equaliser though. Just follow the rules.

If a side is offside blow the penalty or 6 again. Games are so very slow now
 

Perth Red

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65,849
Refs shouldn't be an equaliser though. Just follow the rules.

If a side is offside blow the penalty or 6 again. Games are so very slow now
Reality is if you went through a game and blew the whistle at every single indiscretion it would be unwatchable. and before you say it, no clubs wouldnt learn, as we saw withe the six agains and the head high farce last year.
For example Teams would be off side at least 30% of PoTB Id suggest. Warriors last round never stood square at marker whole first half and only got pinged for it once. Not that Storm needed any help!

Its a very fine balance between keeping clubs in check and letting the game flow.
 

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