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Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
54,690
Watching a bit of the “experts” commentary this week…..while their tips may be end up being correct…it’s amazing how poor their analysis/reasons are…..

cooper - tips cowboys, fair enough. But it’s on the basis of poor eels defence and only being 8th best….but fails to point out cowboys conceded 30 points against the sharks, while we only conceded 27 against the panthers…..

and far out so many pointing out cowboys last game against us, when they flogged us…..but yet against the raiders, no one looked at our previous game against them…

Let them tip the 'boys, imo - I think it's fair to say that the pressure will be on the Cowboys, as they will go into the game as heavy favourites.

And we enjoy being underdogs.
 

ColdWetPanther

Juniors
Messages
2,153
But what does that even mean? Are coaches more in control of the result at finals time?
I think they are. They need to ensure that your team is ready to perform at that particular time of the year which is a skill. In any regular season match it could be argued the individual result is less important (as it is the collective performance over all the rounds that is important) while you don’t have that level of flexibility at finals time.

Secondly, as the games are referred differently and slowed down, that provides more opportunities for a coaches technical nouse to come to the fore.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
34,401
I think they are. They need to ensure that your team is ready to perform at that particular time of the year which is a skill. In any regular season match it could be argued the individual result is less important (as it is the collective performance over all the rounds that is important) while you don’t have that level of flexibility at finals time.

Secondly, as the games are referred differently and slowed down, that provides more opportunities for a coaches technical nouse to come to the fore.

I reckon there's a fair argument that our last game of the regular season, against Melbourne to gain a top four spot was more important than our first final against Penrith, which ultimately only decided whether we get a rest, and what side of the draw we go to, the first being obviously advantageous, but given our recent record against Souths, it's likely balanced out by playing the Cowboys instead of them this weekend. should we win this weekend, I fancy our chances against Penrith in the GF more than I would against Souths. I'd reckon there's plenty of Parra fans who'd agree on that.

A lot a variables that led to that though are down to luck, as obviously the club has no control over the results of other teams that led to that scenario being the case.

In saying that though yeah, over the regular season the entire season in general any single match is gonna be less important than a final, it's the sum total of the results over the season to get a team in the position, and in the condition to be best placed to win finals games that matters.

But when you're talking about the abilities and input of the coach into the success of a season, and how much that influences said success, wouldn't it then be the case that there is far more opportunity to influence the success of a team in any given year during the entire regular season than in any given single finals match? I say that's a no brainer.

So back to the argument at hand, if you're gonna judge a coach's ability wouldn't you do it over his performance over the period in which he has the most opportunity to make a difference, than a win or loss in a single finals game?
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
47,689
Rankings are at least systemised in some way shape or form on previous performance, what do you propose, hey look at their latest squad, it's pretty strong let's make them tier one?

Here's another google ...


Two wins and a draw in their last ten games, Vs. Tonga's results..

https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams/tonga/results.html

Six wins from their last ten, including a win over NZ and a 2 Point semi final loss to the Poms.

Even with that what you've pretty much got is one World cup where they ( Tonga ) had a pretty good campaign, which is why I'd say you'd need more time to elevate them to tier one, a good performance in this world cup, would show some consistency, and backing it up in the years leading into the next one would display that's a bit more permanent than having a good side based around one generation of players.
Appreciate that past performance and rankings is all you have to go off but given the strength of the current squads and the interuptions caused by COVID its largely meaningless.

Understand that you can't make them Tier 1 now but I dont really view them as inferior to a Tier 1 side leading into the world cup. Both teams are a great chance to win this. I think its inevitable that both teams become Tier 1 before the next world cup, particularly when we start seeing more regularly scheduled games.
 

hindy111

Immortal
Messages
49,892
I really have zero interest in origin and international footy. I guess I just dint feel that passion like I do for the Eels.

Origin to me seems to have had it's day and seems to be more targeted for your casual league supporters which is fine. It should continue and it's a great level of rugby league.
But the rules should be bent for the reason I mentioned.
I think anyone who come through the NRL SYSTEM in Australia should be eligible amd still play for NZ. So guys like Cayless yes but Papali'i NO. But introduce a star player. So you can chose someone from outside. Maybe just the one per squad. Example a Sam Burges or SBW in their prime. Take turns each year who chooses first.

I also find a dead rubber a real stain on the game. The risk of injuries just isn't worth it. I understand TV revenue plays a huge role but it's a pointless game.
 

Gazzamatta

Coach
Messages
11,407
I reckon there's a fair argument that our last game of the regular season, against Melbourne to gain a top four spot was more important than our first final against Penrith, which ultimately only decided whether we get a rest, and what side of the draw we go to, the first being obviously advantageous, but given our recent record against Souths, it's likely balanced out by playing the Cowboys instead of them this weekend. should we win this weekend, I fancy our chances against Penrith in the GF more than I would against Souths. I'd reckon there's plenty of Parra fans who'd agree on that.

A lot a variables that led to that though are down to luck, as obviously the club has no control over the results of other teams that led to that scenario being the case.

In saying that though yeah, over the regular season the entire season in general any single match is gonna be less important than a final, it's the sum total of the results over the season to get a team in the position, and in the condition to be best placed to win finals games that matters.

But when you're talking about the abilities and input of the coach into the success of a season, and how much that influences said success, wouldn't it then be the case that there is far more opportunity to influence the success of a team in any given year during the entire regular season than in any given single finals match? I say that's a no brainer.

So back to the argument at hand, if you're gonna judge a coach's ability wouldn't you do it over his performance over the period in which he has the most opportunity to make a difference, than a win or loss in a single finals game?
I think Penrith are a tad lucky this week. Burgess and Havilli have been huge for them. Then there are injury concerns to both Arrow and Johnson. Both very important players. All 4 will probably be ready should Souths get through to next week. Fu*k you Penrith.
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
15,146
I really have zero interest in origin and international footy. I guess I just dint feel that passion like I do for the Eels.

Origin to me seems to have had it's day and seems to be more targeted for your casual league supporters which is fine. It should continue and it's a great level of rugby league.
But the rules should be bent for the reason I mentioned.
I think anyone who come through the NRL SYSTEM in Australia should be eligible amd still play for NZ. So guys like Cayless yes but Papali'i NO. But introduce a star player. So you can chose someone from outside. Maybe just the one per squad. Example a Sam Burges or SBW in their prime. Take turns each year who chooses first.

I also find a dead rubber a real stain on the game. The risk of injuries just isn't worth it. I understand TV revenue plays a huge role but it's a pointless game.
Could call it ‘State of almost origin plus 2 extras blokes’. May as well just call it another international All Stars game. That concept died in the arse because no one gave a shit.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
34,401
I think Penrith are a tad lucky this week. Burgess and Havilli have been huge for them. Then there are injury concerns to both Arrow and Johnson. Both very important players. All 4 will probably be ready should Souths get through to next week. Fu*k you Penrith.

It's that kind of luck they obviously want to take advantage of. Though I don't think they really need it, it'll help offset any bad luck they have, should they have any.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
66,537

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
74,546
I think they are. They need to ensure that your team is ready to perform at that particular time of the year which is a skill. In any regular season match it could be argued the individual result is less important (as it is the collective performance over all the rounds that is important) while you don’t have that level of flexibility at finals time.

Secondly, as the games are referred differently and slowed down, that provides more opportunities for a coaches technical nouse to come to the fore.
You say this, but even the best coaches have overseen some horrific finals performances.
 

lucablight

First Grade
Messages
5,224
I think if you can get to a grand final you can win one. Smith coached in how many grand finals? Four? Suppose you flip a coin four times and it comes up tails every time. How likely is it that the coin is faulty?

On the other hand, Maguire's only grand final win was against the team that finished 7th. Surely you can admit he had some luck.
How does it follow if you make a grand final you can win one? You might as well say if you coach in the NRL you can win one. I liked Smith as a coach but he oversaw some really bad finals losses. 98,99 and 05 were huge missed opportunities to make grand finals. Maguire may have had had some luck but you can only play what’s in front of you.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
74,546
How does it follow if you make a grand final you can win one? You might as well say if you coach in the NRL you can win one. I liked Smith as a coach but he oversaw some really bad finals losses. 98,99 and 05 were huge missed opportunities to make grand finals. Maguire may have had had some luck but you can only play what’s in front of you.
Smith also won some preliminary finals (four of them) so his losses in those games don’t prove he couldn’t win them. Likewise his grand final losses don’t prove anything.
 

lucablight

First Grade
Messages
5,224
Smith also won some preliminary finals (four of them) so his losses in those games don’t prove he couldn’t win them. Likewise his grand final losses don’t prove anything.
It’s pretty difficult to prove a negative but you can demonstrate a positive claim.
Eg You can’t “prove” a coach isn’t capable of winning a premiership but you can prove that they are if they demonstrate it.
 

Angry_eel

First Grade
Messages
8,287
I think Penrith are a tad lucky this week. Burgess and Havilli have been huge for them. Then there are injury concerns to both Arrow and Johnson. Both very important players. All 4 will probably be ready should Souths get through to next week. Fu*k you Penrith.
It could work against them too. They could be too confident.
 

Angry_eel

First Grade
Messages
8,287
If tonga and/or samoa become tier 1.

The players align with oz and soo, then tonga and samoa will become tier 2 again
Honestly speaking, Tonga V Samoa game is as big as Origin. It's just that Origin is a money maker and heavily promoted.

Unlike NSW and Qld, Tonga and Samoa have real history. Tonga used to be the ruler of Samoa, I believe. I am sure the love is not lost on Samoans. Just look at the passion from the crowds in those games.
 

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