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NRL Coaches: 'Stand-alone' Origins demanded

El Diablo

Post Whore
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94,107
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/sport/nrl/story/0,26746,23810838-5003409,00.html

'Stand-alone' Origins demanded

By Dean Ritchie | June 05, 2008 12:00am

LEADING coaches have called on the NRL to schedule State of Origin as stand-alone weekend games from next season amid claims the current system is unfair on clubs and insulting to fans.

Penrith coach Matt Elliott, Gold Coast's John Cartwright and Parramatta's Michael Hagan were joined by Manly CEO Grant Mayer in saying that the NRL competition was being tarnished with the withdrawal of 34 star players during the Origin series.

The debate has been re-ignited by a column in The Daily Telegraph written by highly respected NSW and Melbourne coach Craig Bellamy.

Opponents claim the season would be extended by another three weeks and that the NRL would lose momentum by having three free rounds.

It would also mean Origin players might not have abreak during the season if byes were eliminated. But Cartwright said: "The NRL loses impetus during Origin anyway because all the players are away.

"Take out 34 players and then some more through injury and you might have 60 players unavailable. The clubs pay the players a lot of money to be available every weekend. It's not an equal playing field.''

Television broadcasters Channel 9 and Fox Sports oppose the plan, claiming it would rob them of ratings and interfere with regular programming.

Elliott said teams playing Melbourne - with nine rep players - during Origin had an unfair advantage.

"Teams that play Melbourne during State of Origin are given a gift,'' he said. "Melbourne suffer for their success. I have an issue with the sides that get to play Melbourne during State of Origin. It's not their fault but it's not equal. It makes for an unfair competition.

"I'd love to see stand-alone Origin games but we all know because of TV requirements that it probably won't happen. It is a pity, because it would put all the focus on State of Origin and it's a match that deserves that.''

Mayer said promoting NRL games without its stars was detrimental to rugby league. "Gold Coast-Melbourne on Monday night with 11 players out - it's not the greatest selling point for the game,'' he said.

"Broadcasters won't allow a one-game weekend and the fans probably wouldn't either. Maybe there could be some form of secondary competition shown to satisfy broadcasting needs. Maybe something in line with the English Challenge Cup.''

Parramatta coach Michael Hagan described stand-alone games as "beneficial''. "I'm an advocate for it,'' Hagan said. "Do I think it will happen? I don't think so. But for the benefit of the clubs and players, then a stand-alone would be a better outcome.''

Newcastle have won just two of their past 13 games with Origin players missing and for Saturday night's match against the Bulldogs will be without Danny Buderus, Kurt Gidley and Steve Simpson.
Knights coach Brian Smith made his strong feelings known about the issue before State of Origin I. "But until Channel 9 or somebody decides that State of Origin rates better on a Sunday afternoon, things won't change,'' he said.

Nine head of sport Steve Crawley said the broadcaster would be open to discussion on the issue. "We have a wonderful relationship with the NRL and ARL and our door is always open to anything they want to discuss,'' Crawley said.

"But at the end of the day, that would be done at a higher level than me.''

Some fans polled yesterday claimed they were reluctant to spend money attending matches if they were to end up watching a game of reserve-grade standard.
 

Butters

Bench
Messages
3,899
"Broadcasters won't allow a one-game weekend and the fans probably wouldn't either. Maybe there could be some form of secondary competition shown to satisfy broadcasting needs. Maybe something in line with the English Challenge Cup.''

Can't they just put the NRL U20's on instead?
 
Messages
10,970
has to be the way to go.

its stupid continuing nrl when some teams have 9 players out.

in the week leading up to origin the focus is on that, with the nrl a long way behind.

interesting to see Fox and nine complaining about the loss of ratings for the nrl.

they recognize the value of our ratings except for when they have to pay market value for them
 

Mr Saab

Referee
Messages
27,762
Oh so now the coaches are complaining? Brisbane have put up with this since 1988
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
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94,107
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/sport/nrl/story/0,26746,23810632-5016365,00.html

Origin destined for weekends

By Craig Bellamy | June 05, 2008 12:00am


FOR all the excitement, all the build-up and hoop-la, there are problems with State of Origin as it stands at the moment.

Now, before I get accused of jumping on a bandwagon, let me state that I have always been a supporter of Origin clashes being played on stand-alone weekends. I said as much during the last camp. And I'm saying it here again.

I don't profess to having all the answers - I can only offer my thoughts and opinions. But, in the wake of the NRL announcing it would hold a conference to discuss the key issues, there are some points I would like raised.

Playing Origins on stand-alone weekends, like the NRL did in 2001 (and from the outside looking in it appeared to be a remarkable success), is the major one of those.

Why?

In my mind there are three glaringly obvious reasons.
1. The welfare of our leading players; 2. Clubs are unfairly penalised - on two fronts; 3. Fans miss out on seeing the clubs at full-strength.

I am aware of the arguments against moving Origin but none of them inspire me into wanting to keep the status quo. Critics of change will debate that - and this is just one of their arguments, by scheduling Origin games on stand-alone weekends, with club fixtures suspended, it will lengthen our season.

True. It will lengthen the number of weeks the competition is played over. But will it increase the number of games we are playing? No.

Will it decrease the workload placed on our marquee players during this taxing time? Yes.

REASON NO.1
: Player welfare

Danny Buderus and Craig Fitzgibbon, two of the New South Wales players in camp with me this week, are obvious examples. For four or five years in a row, Danny and Craig played every club game, every Origin, while backing-up after the interstate matches, before finals and international series. By the end of it they were spent. Craig had lost his legs while Danny was battling persistent injury. It's no coincidence then that, with Craig missing Origin over the past few seasons, and Danny not playing for his country, both have got their grunt back. It's a huge ask playing Origin mid-week then backing up for your club. If we want to take the stress - both mental and physical - off our leading players then we have to change. Add a week at the start and end of the season but cut out that mid-year battle-load. That's the crux of the issue. The intensity of the workload on our leading players is far too great. If it stays the same it will shorten careers, or force more, of the calibre of a Michael Crocker, to go overseas - no question.

REASON NO.2
: Penalising clubs

This is a double whammy.

Some teams - and, yes, the Melbourne Storm is one of these, are hugely disadvantaged. We have nine players involved in Origin and the likelihood is that all of them will miss three club games. Add injuries to that and it is a huge hurdle to overcome. The second hit clubs take relates to the salary cap. Let's use our captain at Melbourne, Cameron Smith, as an example. Say, and these are all hypothetical figures, Cameron earns $240,000 for a season. Over 24 games that is $10,000 a game excluding any bonuses that may be paid. Now if Cameron, who is a permanent fixture for Queensland, misses three games during the Origin period, then that is $30,000 the Storm is being short-changed. On top of that we may have to rest him later in the year because of the Origin demands on his body. Add the extra match payments and bonuses you may have to pay to players who replace him at club level and, potentially, it could cost you one or two quality first grade players. Yes, there are some salary cap exemptions, but it is all too grey for my liking. Clubs at the moment don't whinge about it. But it is something the NRL has to look at.

REASON NO.3: The fans

I'm speaking on their behalf, and I hope they don't mind, but I'm pretty sure fans pay their money to see their teams field their best possible line-ups. It's not happening at the moment.
 

Knight87

Juniors
Messages
2,181
I do agree that State Of Origins should be held as stand-alone matches. Stuff Ch9 and Fox, they get great ratings all year around, regardless. As has correctly been said, the clubs get nothing in return for providing players for Origin, yet they're not allowed to play for the club that week.

Match should be played on either Saturday Night or Sunday Night.
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
47,627
I'm all for the move. While I do live Wednesday night Origin, I see no reason why it can't work just as well as a weekend thing. Hell, it would work better for those who want to kick on and drink until the wee hours. It's always been a dirty bitch backing up at 9am with a nasty Bundy headache.

Something in line with the Challenge Cup would be awesome, but will NRL clubs really want to involve their players in an extra 4-5 games a year? (assuming we use the ESL format and they're seeded to appear late in the draw).
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
Wednesday night is stupid nowadays, given that broadcasters have squeezed the game from what was a standard sporting weekend (with very decent crowds) to one that spans Friday night to Monday night, leaving only a small mid-week gap to squeeze origin into.

It's a better spectacle than that, and will outrate anything no matter what night/time they show it. the game shouldn't have its terms dictated to by the media it contracts the broadcast rights to - others will bid if 9/Fox don't like our terms.

Let's get creative and find some other rep-weekend type matches that can be played and screened across the weekend(s) where origin stands alone - Kiwis possibles v probables (or North v South or East v West or whatever suits), PNG v emerging Pacific nations, a game for players originating from states other than NSW and Queensland (will become increasingly important if we our serious about our game growing/surviving outside of the heartlands, NSW city v country (the real thing with real players, not the NRL origin shambles) QLD city v country, or NSWv QLD residents clashes, U20s rep games... that's almost a spread of 8 games to televise there, off the top of my head!
 

ollie515

Juniors
Messages
155
To keep fans/tv producers and NRL happy how about a knockout comp.

4 weeks spread over the year.
1. on Anzac Test weekend all 16 teams play - losers eliminated
2. on SOO 1 week - 8 teams play - losers eliminated
3. on SOO 2 week - 4 teams play - losers eliminated
4. on SOO 3 week - Final between last 2 standing

Initial seedings based on last years placings with a tree structure like Tennis.

If a player plays in a Rep game that year regardless of if they get dropped for that week they cant play in the Cup game. eg: Brent Kite couldnt play after selected for Aus but not for Origin.

Gives some youngsters a chance, some teams are on show each week and allows top line players to rest. Also gives fans something else to cheer about if a lower club manages an upset and wins the thing..

Downside is progressively less games are played and the last weekend only sees one in addition to Origin. But hey its a final and a week with 2 pieces of silverware on the line. should keep fans interested.

Thoughts??
 
Messages
561
Isn't it strange that in the days of the salary cap and a supposedly 'even' competition that one team could have 9 players in State of Origin. It's like the St. George teams of the 60's where they just about all played for Australia. Good luck keeping them all Melbourne, you've already lost a couple. The salary cap is a bit like Tall Poppy Syndrome isn't it. "Oh Melbourne, you're so much better than the rest of us so we'll make it so that you have to let some of your best players go so the rest can match it with you." That aspect would suck for Melbourne supporters.
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
47,627
The real issue with this knock-out tournament featuring NRL teams is that, ultimately, the better teams are still disadvantaged by Origin - as they'll be playing sudden death games without the guys needed to win them.

We'll see a Souths vs. Wests final :lol:
 

Sood

Juniors
Messages
678
I totally agree with this.
Its bogus that teams are getting free wins over melbourne - they dont deserve it, and it could cost a team a top 8 spot.
Though 1 game for the whole weekend is kinda sucky, the way it is now is a farce.
 

JoeD

First Grade
Messages
7,056
Treat SOO like they do the test matches. Play on friday night and let the players back up over the rest of the weekend.
 

Gaba

First Grade
Messages
8,197
I totally agree with this.
Its bogus that teams are getting free wins over melbourne - they dont deserve it, and it could cost a team a top 8 spot.
Though 1 game for the whole weekend is kinda sucky, the way it is now is a farce.



So its ok for melbourne and other teams to have free wins over the depleted bulldogs and any other team who has alot of injurys, melbourne dont deserve a win like that when they are full strength and the other teams arent.So lets have free weekends so those clubs who have injuried players can have time to recover.Injurys have and will affect a club more then this state of origin crap people on here are going on about.The bulldogs season has ended with all thier injurys so would other clubs, notice how the coaches and others dont cry for free weekends due to injurys which will cost clubs thier season.


Craig Bellamy why don't you put in an article saying free weekend for side who have injurys, Steve Folkes should come out saying he wants a month free, because its unfair on the bulldogs they have 11 players out, the storm had 2 points gifted to them without a ball being kicked off

Wake up people, this talk about free weekend for state of origin talk is stupid, when injurys hit clubs worst,its the part of the game take the good with the bad
 
Last edited:

ali

Bench
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4,962
I have been calling for Stand alone Origins for years, so I am very pleased to see some momentum building. My solution to the channel 9 and Foxsports problem would be to fixture some more rep matches.

Play a 3 game NSW vs QLD under 20 series parallel to the Origin. I'm sure if scheduled on Channel 9 to replace Friday night footy this game would still rate well. If it was played in places like Newcastle, Wollongong or Townsville and promoted i reckon it would draw a respectable crowd.

Friday night match number 2, the long wanted NZ Origin. I would much prefer this match played at the same time as a free weekend in the English Super League, but this would be a good first step.

So there you have it, 3 matches for Channel 9. As for Foxsports, well they will still have a couple of under 20 matches. I'd also like to see PNG, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji and the Cook Islands in action during these weekends, so maybe if the World Cup rates well this could be a solution for Foxsports.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,572
So its ok for melbourne and other teams to have free wins over the depleted bulldogs and any other team who has alot of injurys, melbourne dont deserve a win like that when they are full strength and the other teams arent.So lets have free weekends so those clubs who have injuried players can have time to recover.Injurys have and will affect a club more then this state of origin crap people on here are going on about.The bulldogs season has ended with all thier injurys so would other clubs, notice how the coaches and others dont cry for free weekends due to injurys which will cost clubs thier season.


Craig Bellamy why don't you put in an article saying free weekend for side who have injurys, Steve Folkes should come out saying he wants a month free, because its unfair on the bulldogs they have 11 players out, the storm had 2 points gifted to them without a ball being kicked off

Wake up people, this talk about free weekend for state of origin talk is stupid, when injurys hit clubs worst,its the part of the game take the good with the bad

That may be the dumbest post ever posted on this forum, and thats saying something, when you consider Ive been responsible for most of the other dumb posts.
 
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