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NRL Draft back on the agenda

Smug Panther

First Grade
Messages
6,826
The sooner the better imo
Drafts go hand in hand with salary cap leagues, the salary cap isn’t aimed at spreading the talent, they’ll tell you it is, but any role is plays in spreading talent is purely coincidental. It goal is to cap wage and ensure clubs can’t spend themselves into going broke, which is a good thing

the even talent, and do so in a way that still reward good teams and good management and provide parity, that’s what a cap does

if you’re worried about tanking, there are measures you can put in place, draft lotteries like the NBA or put rules in place that deny a club from getting 2 top 5 picks in consecutive years… these are easy fixes

if you’re worried about good teams not being rewarded, go and look at us leagues with drafts… bad teams with bad management continue to be bad and good teams with good talent scouts and systems somehow always manage to find value in drafts
Teams tank in the NBA every year. It's shit and has no place here
 

nick87

Coach
Messages
11,813
They wouldn’t and no club will. That’s the point of a draft. An overall body, not the clubs, would have to look after look after player development.

My biggest gripe is that a draft would have to be the tanking thing. If somebody could come up with a draft order that is not just based on ladder position than it might be worthwhile.

Zach Lowe, one of the nbas best writers came up with a draft wheel a few years ago as a remedy to tanking

But mostly to avoid tanking you just put in a draft lottery
So coming last doesn’t guarantee you the first pick, in a 18 team comp you’d set it up so you can be picking as late as 4th, pending random chance… and team coming 8th can luck into the 5th picks
Bracket it off into 6 picks around you
(E.g 8th could pick as high as 5th or as low as 11th, total random draw decides)
 

Colk

Bench
Messages
4,103
You would have the order of a draft based on some kind of a points system derived from several things: ladder position but more about what you recruit/loss in transfer periods. Home grown players would be discounted.

That would be quite complex but that is the best I can come up with.
 

nick87

Coach
Messages
11,813
Teams tank in the NBA every year. It's shit and has no place here

Since the draft lottery arrived, mostly what NBA teams do to "tank" now is simply invest in young players and provide them the playing time to develop for the future... which is not drastically different to what the Titans did this year, or what many clubs have done in the past.

Granted prior to the draft lottery you had teams in the NBA going to wild levels of tanking, which is why the lottery came in... but also consider this is a 82 game schedule.

The NFL have had a draft for eions... its ,much closer in terms of it's culture and schedule and whilst there has always been rebuilding teams who dont have high expectations to win in a given year based on their roster, that's no different to what the happens in our league every year. There is always talk of teams tanking, but even the Miami Dolphins who were said to be "Tanking for Tua" won 5 games in 16, which is far better than the f**king West Tigers managed this year! Or any of the worst teams of the last 5 years
These MFers are tanking without any incentive already! LOL!

There are teams like the bulldogs who are just trying to establish themselves and the culture with their young talent/Free Agent signings with a view of competing in 2-3 years time. No one in their right mind thought the dogs were competing for the top 8 this year, let alone a premiership

So is that tanking? Or is it building for their long term future?
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
14,069
You would have the order of a draft based on some kind of a points system derived from several things: ladder position but more about what you recruit/loss in transfer periods. Home grown players would be discounted.

That would be quite complex but that is the best I can come up with.
Just have the bottom 8 in a lottery.
 

Colk

Bench
Messages
4,103
The real solution is cap incentives for players who come through your system. Thats how you grow the sport

I agree to a point but the current system has two obvious flaws that you need to correct

1. The salary cap is very easily rorted and not very well policed. The teams that have been caught, and in cases like Melbourne over a number of years, have only been caught due to disgruntled ex employees and other whistleblowers. Teams could cheat the cap easily if they wanted to with the only thing stopping them being their own sense of morality. Essentially if you can’t police the system that you put in, then that system has a problem.

2. What do you do with areas that are not linked with or through current teams? How do you expand the competition into places that are commercially viable or profitable but don’t have a wealth of juniors? What do you with areas (Newcastle and Gold Coast in the past) that have massive junior nurseries but don’t have the money to properly invest in them? If you took development out of clubs hands then you might have uniform standards of development across the competition.
 

Colk

Bench
Messages
4,103
Just have the bottom 8 in a lottery.

Hmm what happens, if let’s say for example, the Roosters didn’t make the eight this year because of injuries. They are clearly in the top 3 or 4 teams in terms of rosters. Imagine the outcry if they got the first pick ahead of say the Tigers.
 

Munky

First Grade
Messages
7,268
Hmm what happens, if let’s say for example, the Roosters didn’t make the eight this year because of injuries. They are clearly in the top 3 or 4 teams in terms of rosters. Imagine the outcry if they got the first pick ahead of say the Tigers.

Or they suffer an injury toll and just tank anyway.

Any good junior who doesn't want to participate in the draft just has to go to Rugby or the ESL and launch a court case against the NRL.
 

nick87

Coach
Messages
11,813
Or they suffer an injury toll and just tank anyway.

Any good junior who doesn't want to participate in the draft just has to go to Rugby or the ESL and launch a court case against the NRL.

The player would have to prove the draft is an unreasonable restraint of trade.
That's the thing people miss with this stuff... a salary cap is a restraint of trade but it's commonly accepted that it is a reasonable one... if the NRL structures a draft that is reasonable and could prove that it is reasonable, it would hold to any challenge in court.

Which is why the AFL have had a draft for 40 years without and significant drama.
This idea that any draft is just illegal and easily challenged simply isnt correct
 

Munky

First Grade
Messages
7,268
The player would have to prove the draft is an unreasonable restraint of trade.
That's the thing people miss with this stuff... a salary cap is a restraint of trade but it's commonly accepted that it is a reasonable one... if the NRL structures a draft that is reasonable and could prove that it is reasonable, it would hold to any challenge in court.

Which is why the AFL have had a draft for 40 years without and significant drama.
This idea that any draft is just illegal and easily challenged simply isnt correct

As far as I can see the draft has only been tested in court once in Adamson v New South Wales Rugby League Ltd.

The current common law precedent is against a draft from what I can see.

I believe the AFL acts under a gentlemen's agreement with players explicitly not challenging the draft system. Although info is hard to find.

A RL player doesn't have to care if they get black listed from the NRL they can have other options. Vicky Kicky juniors have no other path to a pro career.

It should lose in court, f**k any system that forces labour to move across the country against their wishes. Pro sport isn't the army.
 

nick87

Coach
Messages
11,813
That ruling didnt rule that drafts were illegal though, it ruled that the draft as it was then constitution was an unreasoinable restraint of trade.

As said, there is nothing that is illegal about a draft as long as the NRL could prove the restraint was reasonable and achieved the goals it set out to achieve, and noting that any draft that was implimented would have to include consultation and agreement from the RLPA and collectively bargained via the CBA, there is some pretty good foundations there to impliment one if they wished to do it

I hope they do. An NRL draft would be f**king awesome imo
 

Colk

Bench
Messages
4,103
As far as I can see the draft has only been tested in court once in Adamson v New South Wales Rugby League Ltd.

The current common law precedent is against a draft from what I can see.

I believe the AFL acts under a gentlemen's agreement with players explicitly not challenging the draft system. Although info is hard to find.

A RL player doesn't have to care if they get black listed from the NRL they can have other options. Vicky Kicky juniors have no other path to a pro career.

It should lose in court, f**k any system that forces labour to move across the country against their wishes. Pro sport isn't the army.

Very true and a very good point.

Look I think these debates are worthwhile because there needs to be something outside of the salary cap because it is impossible to police
 

forby

Juniors
Messages
2,093
So the kid that works his way through the juniors so that he can be graded with his local club gets told because you are good you have to play for a club he doesn't want to, all because some clubs can't or won't develop players.
That sounds like a fair and just system .......
 

Colk

Bench
Messages
4,103
So the kid that works his way through the juniors so that he can be graded with his local club gets told because you are good you have to play for a club he doesn't want to, all because some clubs can't or won't develop players.
That sounds like a fair and just system .......

Well nothing is really fair in life and it is not like the current system is perfectly fair either.

The biggest questions around a draft is whether having clubs running junior development in their areas is better than one body running the whole thing (prefer the latter) whether the draft will reward mediocrity (which is the biggest gripe IMO), whether you can expand the competition without something like the draft (which is difficult - see the game’s history for evidence) and whether it would also be difficult implementing it when players have other options and other sports (it is not like fumbleball in that case)

I’m not staunchly pro or against the draft as I can see the positives and negatives from both sides
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
5,833
I find it interesting that the rule introduced about 5 years ago, where juniors have to leave their district if they trial with another district club. Rather than trial miss out and trial with somone else or return home

Is having a bigger impact, as players are not crossing districts as much as they once did

What this does is mean local district can pay unders

But also other districts have to pay even higher overs
 

Colk

Bench
Messages
4,103
I find it interesting that the rule introduced about 5 years ago, where juniors have to leave their district if they trial with another district club. Rather than trial miss out and trial with somone else or return home

Is having a bigger impact, as players are not crossing districts as much as they once did

What this does is mean local district can pay unders

But also other districts have to pay even higher overs

Is this really a thing? What are we in the 1950’s
 

ALX25

Juniors
Messages
1,554
Sounds like the QRL are negotiating to save the Qld Cup

They only have themselves to blame. Some really poor decisions of late especially with the junior rep comps. The 'rise' bs is another story.
 

AlwaysGreen

Immortal
Messages
42,334
The difference between getting drafted to the NFL or NBA compared to the NRL.

Cade Cunningham 1st overall pick in last year's NBA draft signed a 4 year $US45 million dollar contract with the first year worth over $US10M. This is before any endorsement deals.

Travon Walker 1st overall pick in the NFL draft: $US37 million over 4 years. Again, endorsement deals not considered.

For that amount of money you'd be prepared to be drafted anywhere. For a rookie NRL player on a literal fraction of that? You'd be prepared to say f**k a draft I'll go where I'm happiest thanks.
 

MugaB

First Grade
Messages
6,219
So the kid that works his way through the juniors so that he can be graded with his local club gets told because you are good you have to play for a club he doesn't want to, all because some clubs can't or won't develop players.
That sounds like a fair and just system .......
Enter Soni Luke.... stuck to his guns stayed at panthers and debuts at 26yo , and is one pre season away from cementing a starting spot in what might be one of the greatest sides in NRL history... but yeah draft him to the titans why dont ya.... coz all teams need stars.. fmd
Grow them yourselves.. the draft only helps prop up the clubs who dont contribute to junior pathways... and just take from the top end
 
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