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NRL2

mongoose

First Grade
Messages
9,121
That's kind of a self defeating prophecy. We only have two FT professional divisions in the world, there's undoubtedly talent to create a third out there. Also marketing driving it, well not really, the powers that be drive these things not market. Yes it wont be as strong as NRL or SL, but it doesn't need to be. Its not there to compete with NRL but to supplement it now we are getting to the point where the NRL is highly unlikely to expand beyond its current size and yet we have developing or continuing markets unserviced by an NRL team.

Its not overnight though is it, its taking the strength of the NSW and QLnd cup which has been around for a very long time and adding to it other strategic areas that have been chomping at the bit for something to happen for decades. Creating a genuine second division that isnt just existing to feed the NRL clubs and has a legitimacy in its own right.
I think a competition like this would just cannibalise the NRL and could even become a competitor after many years.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
48,596
I think a competition like this would just cannibalise the NRL and could even become a competitor after many years.
Thats why sadly it will never happen! There are plenty of countries that have two tiers of professional leagues in their sports so it shouldn't be an issue. Mean time cities the NRL isnt represented in continue to drift.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
13,722
The only way I can see a competition like this working is if the ARLC forms strong ties with the NTRL, PNGRFL, NZRL, Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands, Fiji, Solomon Islands and New Caledonia to get as many of the best athletes from these regions to play in it, under developmental contracts, with the long term goal being for them to make their way to the NRL. Our game needs a larger pool of players to support an 18 club competition. Growing the game in the Pacific by taking the best young athletes and giving them a chance to develop into an NRL player in a 2nd division would be lucrative to people from these countries. Their endomorphic mesomorph body type makes them ideal candidates to play RL and is the reason they struggle in endurance games like fumbleball, so we can recruit them with the knowledgeable that AwFuL will never get their hands on them.

At the same time rules need to be brought into the game so that there are positions that are suitable for skillful, small players. Two positions (dummy half and half) at least should be all about skill. Size and physicality should have no baring on whether you make the grade or not.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
13,722
Thats why sadly it will never happen! There are plenty of countries that have two tiers of professional leagues in their sports so it shouldn't be an issue. Mean time cities the NRL isnt represented in continue to drift.

Exactly. NRL clubs are useless at growth but they have cockroach like ability to survive. They sniff out a threat and deal with it. The NRL National Roach League.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
48,596
Its very frustrating. A second FT prof comp under NRL covering an intial 12 or so clubs would be a great vehicle for the game to expand quicker, much cheaper and with less quality impact than trying to add teams into NRL1.
A better reserve grade system for NRL would benefit those clubs as well.

All up it would cost $70-80mill a year I reckon

Now that may sound like a lot but consider that the NRL decided to give clubs an extra $80mill a year no strings attached in 2018-. That money could have been earmarked for a proper reserve grade for NRL and $2mill a year off the NRL grants would have pretty much paid for NRL2 with TV deal and sponsors etc

NRL2 would also be the perfect place for some clubs to cut their teeth and build their business with a view to one day winning an expansion license in NRL1

Starting at 12 clubs with a view to growing it in years to come I'd go something like:
(criteria; stadium, non feeder, non competitive to existing NRL clubs, geographical spread)

Sydney
NS Bears
Newtown Jets
Mounties

Brisbane
Ipswich Somethings (Jets rebranded)
South Brisbane Firehawks (Tigers rebranded)
Wynnum Seagulls

National
WC Pirates
Cairns Somethings (Pride rebranded)
Sunshine Coast Falcons

International
Christchurch Orcas
PNG Hunters
Fiji Silktails
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,588
So why hasnt the Qld Cup which only uses 0 to 4 NRL players and operates in the manner suggested above not fallen over in the manner you suggest?
The Qld Cup has a TV deal and good local exposure, that has all sorts of knock-on effects such as increasing the value of their sponsorship. On top of that the Q Cup clubs are all affiliated with NRL clubs which helps to keep costs down.

Your competition would have none of those things and it'd be more expensive to operate in.

What you are suggesting is more akin to clubs of Ron Massey Cup size and standard, except that they are trying to compete in a state wide league with a couple of interstate and international trips thrown in, and it's simply crazy to think that that is feasible long term.
90% of those fans aren't turning up to watch a handful of NRL players
Maybe, but you know who is turning up because the Qld Cup and NSW Cup are de facto NRL reserve grade comps? Broadcasters.

They have zero interest in any competition that isn't directly linked to the NRL, and for any of these expanded second grade competition ideas to work it will require broadcasters to buy into the concept.

Besides, if you lowered the standard of the Qld Cup or NSW Cup you would see a significant drop in support, and it's dishonest to pretend otherwise.
Or has the Cairns A grade died after the Northern Pride was setup?
Uh-huh, and how much does a Cairns A grade side cost to run? What's their turnover like? What's their average attendance like?
 
Messages
5,810
At the same time rules need to be brought into the game so that there are positions that are suitable for skillful, small players. Two positions (dummy half and half) at least should be all about skill. Size and physicality should have no baring on whether you make the grade or not.
That's a very good point. Most people are endomorphic, so it makes sense to adjust the rules to suit this group of people. Soccer players are more endomorphic than mesomorphic, and soccer has more participants than any other team sport in the world. The most skilful soccer players are incapable of competing with mesomorphs in feats such as jumping, sprinting or weightlifting, but they don't need to as its a game that requires years of practice to acquire the right skills. Same as cricket batsman, who tend to be shorter than average.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
13,722
That's a very good point. Most people are endomorphic, so it makes sense to adjust the rules to suit this group of people. Soccer players are more endomorphic than mesomorphic, and soccer has more participants than any other team sport in the world. The most skilful soccer players are incapable of competing with mesomorphs in feats such as jumping, sprinting or weightlifting, but they don't need to as its a game that requires years of practice to acquire the right skills. Same as cricket batsman, who tend to be shorter than average.

Yep. It use to be a game that suited endomorphic humans okay and it produced champions like Allan Langer however those days are well and truly over with sport science that means the mesomorphs can play 80 minutes. Fatigue is not coming back into the game the way it would need to bring the Langer's back.
Fortunately some rule changes would easily fix the problems.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
5,541
What you are suggesting is more akin to clubs of Ron Massey Cup size and standard,
You do realise that in NSW all stand alone NSW Cup clubs bar the Bears played in the RMC before stepping up

That includes Newtown, Wenty, Blacktown, St Marys, Windsor, Mounties

These clubs seem to be sitting on a $500k playing roster

You have ask is the NRL really bringing broadcasters to the Qld Cup?

I suspect the answer is no

Same goes for Sky with in NZ when they show ARL and other games

Newcastle and Illawarra RL lived for years on regional TV too

There will be a market but not under the terms of the NRL agreement which down plays any competition, not just second divisions but also internationals
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
48,596
With the growing competition in streaming I would think NRL2 would be a very sellable product to the likes of Optus or Paramount+. It would draw a bigger following than Aleague potentially and they get $40mill a year from 10/streaming.

Oh but News Ltd wouldn't like that so no chance lol.

I dont see it cannibalizing NRL from a fans pointof view if done right. I'd still watch NRL on TV but I would also be a full member of my NRL2 club that actually plays in my city. The only places it might have an impact is in Sydney and Brisbane but we keep hearing how Bears fans dont follow anyone else and how RL fans in Ipswich wouldnt travel to Suncorp etc. It would cater for a different unserved audience.
 

Santino Patane

Juniors
Messages
162
The saving grace to this entire thread is that Perth coming into the NRL as the 18th club has light years more chance than a pseudo second comp with zero chance of succeeding. All just mental masturbation going on here.
 
Messages
5,810
The only way I could see a new competition entering the fray is if it was funded by one of the new streaming service providers and competed directly with the NRL. It would need to alter the playing rules to differentiate it from the NRL, as it's not going to have the big name players to use as draw cards, so it'll have to rely on the product being more entertaining. Something like this would be great for STAN Sport, Amazon Prime Video or Paramount+.

If they were to spend $60m a year to fund an eight team competition then they could have an annual grant of $7.5m per club, which would be more than enough to raid Super Rugby and poach the best junior talent from Australia, Cook Islands, England, Fiji, New Zealand, PNG, Samoa and Tonga.

Imagine if these teams were to enter the league!

Adelaide Rams
Brisbane Tigers
Cairns Cyclones
Central Queensland Capras
Ipswich Jets
North Sydney Bears
Sunshine Coast Falcons
West Coast Pirates
 

Pippen94

Juniors
Messages
1,391
Of course "dots on map" ppl would love a whole new & separate competition. What it achieves would be nothing tho
 

TheGrifter

Juniors
Messages
18
Some criteria you could use;
1. Must not compete with an existing NRL club
2. decent quality stadium with a min 10k seats
3. Must not be in a feeder club arrangement with an NRL team
4. Must be in regions that can sustain decent supporter base (target 5k crowd avg)
5. Salary cap of $3million. total spend cap of $6million. NRL grant $4million (NRL to cover travel)
It's a good idea, although I would find a way to allow NRL players fringe to be a part of it.

One thing would be to have loan contracts between NRL and NRL2 clubs. That way NRL clubs could loan out their younger players and allow them to develop in NRL2. For established or fringe players I would allow dual registration with a restriction on how many dual registered players the NRL2 clubs could field in a match.

Also I don't think a salary cap of $3m would be needed. The NRL salary cap was only $4.4m 10 years ago, so a salary cap of $1.5-2m could work.
 
Messages
5,810
It's a good idea, although I would find a way to allow NRL players fringe to be a part of it.

One thing would be to have loan contracts between NRL and NRL2 clubs. That way NRL clubs could loan out their younger players and allow them to develop in NRL2. For established or fringe players I would allow dual registration with a restriction on how many dual registered players the NRL2 clubs could field in a match.

Also I don't think a salary cap of $3m would be needed. The NRL salary cap was only $4.4m 10 years ago, so a salary cap of $1.5-2m could work.
If we lowered the NRL salary cap by $2m then we could launch a fully professional 17 team second-tier competition with its own salary cap of $2m. Maybe increase the amount of money that elite players can be paid through third-party agreements and let 2 or 3 players sit outside of the cap so that the richer clubs who can afford to throw a couple of million a year at them can do so to keep them in the game. I'd make it an eight team second-tier with a salary cap of $4m or a 12 team competition with a salary cap of $3 million. It will help bring more players into the game.
 
Messages
12,230
If we lowered the NRL salary cap by $2m then we could launch a fully professional 17 team second-tier competition with its own salary cap of $2m. Maybe increase the amount of money that elite players can be paid through third-party agreements and let 2 or 3 players sit outside of the cap so that the richer clubs who can afford to throw a couple of million a year at them can do so to keep them in the game. I'd make it an eight team second-tier with a salary cap of $4m or a 12 team competition with a salary cap of $3 million. It will help bring more players into the game.
Whilst I get what you're saying, the players only hear "pay cuts " , it'd never pass the Union as they'll use the lower tier players as an excuse.
Better to try and get extra money from other sources, and try and be patient and build on that. Again, I doubt any club will want to be patient.
I actually think this idea with a whole new independent "second division" is a great way to go, and is absolutely needed.
 
Messages
5,810
Whilst I get what you're saying, the players only hear "pay cuts " , it'd never pass the Union as they'll use the lower tier players as an excuse.
Better to try and get extra money from other sources, and try and be patient and build on that. Again, I doubt any club will want to be patient.
I actually think this idea with a whole new independent "second division" is a great way to go, and is absolutely needed.
If we're lucky, one of the streaming services might be interested in chipping in $30m a year to support a 10 team competition with a salary cap of $3m. Rugby Australia only gets $33m a year. NBL gets $15m a year. A-League gets $40m a year. A second-tier RL competition would probably attract as many subscribers as Super Rugby, NBL and A-League, at least if ratings for Queensland Cup and those competitions are anything to go by.
 

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