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NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

Messages
6,407
For decades people said the same thing about Wests Rosellas before they finally got the chance to own the Knights, and look how that's turned out so far lol.

Or the Seagulls before they bought the Giants, or the Auckland RL before they were involved with the Warriors again a few years ago, I'm sure that I'm forgetting a bunch of other examples as well.

The point is that the fact that a traditional local club has been around for a while and successful in the grassroots and lower tiers doesn't necessarily mean that they are well placed, or have the means or expertise, to run a pro club successfully. Furthermore, I think it's safe to say that the three most successful NRL clubs of recent times (businesswise), the Storm, Broncos, and Rabbitohs, are all owned by private owners or corporations, not a traditional structure backed by leagues clubs.

None of that is to say that corporate or private owners are necessarily better, or that traditional clubs can't successfully run pro clubs, because it isn't that simple and there's good and bad in both methods, it's simply a warning that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
The Tweed Heads Seagulls were out of their depth. Tweed Heads is a tiny town in far northern NSW and the only thing the Seagulls Leagues Club had going for them was pokies that weren't available in Queensland. The oldies on the Gold Coast used to catch the bus into Seagulls Leagues to play the pokies, making the club just viable enough to fund a struggling NSWRL side. Once Queensland made it legal for licenced venues to have pokies it led to Seagulls Leagues going broke as the oldies from the Gold Coast stopped coming.

Easts Tigers are a strong club like Redcliffe. Burleigh are not as strong but they have good connections with the local community and have an administration that knows how to run a club, which the Titans lack. I think the biggest problem for the Titans is their owners don't really understand football and don't have the clout to attract the right coaches, trainers, businessmen and players people to build their club. Russell Crowe was able to sign an administrative team that knew what they were doing. Frizelle and Kelly pay Meninga a fortune to tell them to sign David Fafita.
 

Wb1234

Bench
Messages
2,747
The Tweed Heads Seagulls were out of their depth. Tweed Heads is a tiny town in far northern NSW and the only thing the Seagulls Leagues Club had going for them was pokies that weren't available in Queensland. The oldies on the Gold Coast used to catch the bus into Seagulls Leagues to play the pokies, making the club just viable enough to fund a struggling NSWRL side. Once Queensland made it legal for licenced venues to have pokies it led to Seagulls Leagues going broke as the oldies from the Gold Coast stopped coming.

Easts Tigers are a strong club like Redcliffe. Burleigh are not as strong but they have good connections with the local community and have an administration that knows how to run a club, which the Titans lack. I think the biggest problem for the Titans is their owners don't really understand football and don't have the clout to attract the right coaches, trainers, businessmen and players people to build their club. Russell Crowe was able to sign an administrative team that knew what they were doing. Frizelle and Kelly pay Meninga a fortune to tell them to sign David Fafita.
Lmao I’m involved in a project at tweed heads

the area is booming now
 
Messages
6,407
TBF Gould has advocated for a 20 team comp in the past and for Brisbane and Perth expansion:

"I think our game has to look at particularly those two locations [Brisbane and Perth]. It's a conversation that should be going on."
He wants to keep nine suburban clubs in Sydney and add Gosford. He's pining for a continuation of the NSWRL with a few massive clubs from Brisbane, Melbourne and Perth to prop them up.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,714
The Tweed Heads Seagulls were out of their depth. Tweed Heads is a tiny town in far northern NSW and the only thing the Seagulls Leagues Club had going for them was pokies that weren't available in Queensland. The oldies on the Gold Coast used to catch the bus into Seagulls Leagues to play the pokies, making the club just viable enough to fund a struggling NSWRL side. Once Queensland made it legal for licenced venues to have pokies it led to Seagulls Leagues going broke as the oldies from the Gold Coast stopped coming.

Easts Tigers are a strong club like Redcliffe. Burleigh are not as strong but they have good connections with the local community and have an administration that knows how to run a club, which the Titans lack. I think the biggest problem for the Titans is their owners don't really understand football and don't have the clout to attract the right coaches, trainers, businessmen and players people to build their club. Russell Crowe was able to sign an administrative team that knew what they were doing. Frizelle and Kelly pay Meninga a fortune to tell them to sign David Fafita.
You're getting stuck in the weeds of trying to explain away why it did or didn't work in this or that example instead of addressing the point I'm actually making.

The Titan's ownership is financially stable at the moment, with solid business acumen, and have been able to maintain respectable crowds despite the team being dismal for most of it's existence. Those qualities are not only rare, but invaluable, and there's no telling whether or not you'll be able to replace those qualities if you replace them.

Yes they probably could afford to attempt to get better people in the football department and invest better in junior development, but those are easily fixed given time and a bit of luck. Frankly if the NRL wasn't run by morons every expansion club would be given lots of support to establish themselves and their business, and wouldn't have to worry about junior development at all, but I digress.

BTW, Redcliffe have royally f**ked the launch of their NRL side, which will effect the club for decades unless they can dig themselves out of the pit through success on the field, and even then that growth will be reliant on the competitiveness of the team. So maybe we should avoid any more clubs like them lol.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
51,240
Lets be honest Dolphins only got in as they have a load of pokie machines and News Ltd saw them as the least possible threat to the Broncos out of the options available. I would suggest we definitely shouldn't be following that path again!
 

MugaB

First Grade
Messages
5,419
You're getting stuck in the weeds of trying to explain away why it did or didn't work in this or that example instead of addressing the point I'm actually making.

The Titan's ownership is financially stable at the moment, with solid business acumen, and have been able to maintain respectable crowds despite the team being dismal for most of it's existence. Those qualities are not only rare, but invaluable, and there's no telling whether or not you'll be able to replace those qualities if you replace them.

Yes they probably could afford to attempt to get better people in the football department and invest better in junior development, but those are easily fixed given time and a bit of luck. Frankly if the NRL wasn't run by morons every expansion club would be given lots of support to establish themselves and their business, and wouldn't have to worry about junior development at all, but I digress.

BTW, Redcliffe have royally f**ked the launch of their NRL side, which will effect the club for decades unless they can dig themselves out of the pit through success on the field, and even then that growth will be reliant on the competitiveness of the team. So maybe we should avoid any more clubs like them lol.
How exactly have they f**ked their launch peter fitzsimmons?
 

Pink Panther

Juniors
Messages
301
Lol, boom or bust....


Dr Frankenstein rejected his creation... society creates hundreds of joker's daily, then asks " How did this happen?"
 
Messages
6,407
You're getting stuck in the weeds of trying to explain away why it did or didn't work in this or that example instead of addressing the point I'm actually making.

The Titan's ownership is financially stable at the moment, with solid business acumen, and have been able to maintain respectable crowds despite the team being dismal for most of it's existence. Those qualities are not only rare, but invaluable, and there's no telling whether or not you'll be able to replace those qualities if you replace them.

Yes they probably could afford to attempt to get better people in the football department and invest better in junior development, but those are easily fixed given time and a bit of luck. Frankly if the NRL wasn't run by morons every expansion club would be given lots of support to establish themselves and their business, and wouldn't have to worry about junior development at all, but I digress.

BTW, Redcliffe have royally f**ked the launch of their NRL side, which will effect the club for decades unless they can dig themselves out of the pit through success on the field, and even then that growth will be reliant on the competitiveness of the team. So maybe we should avoid any more clubs like them lol.

Abdo reckons Redcliffe's finances are amongst the top four NRL clubs. It'll be interesting to see if their strong financial position translates to success on the field and helps them build a strong fanbase.

They'll have no trouble convincing old school Redcliffe fans to become active supporters, but I don't know how many exist. That means they'll likely have to create new fans. If they're successful on the field then I can see them taking the role of the Storm and attracting support from Queenslanders who don't like the Broncos or Cowboys.

We won't know how they fare until they've been around for a few seasons. If nothing else it'll be interesting to see how everything unfolds.

I think the Titans would help their cause by selecting a jersey design and sticking with it. A nice simple design would probably be best. Every iconic club around the world uses a simple design that is easy to recognise. They definitely need some one like Bennett or Gould in charge of their football department to build a strong squad and culture. Until they do that they'll continue to underachieve.

Lets be honest Dolphins only got in as they have a load of pokie machines and News Ltd saw them as the least possible threat to the Broncos out of the options available. I would suggest we definitely shouldn't be following that path again!
They also own a shopping centre and their own stadium that generates revenue from concerts and other football clubs.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
3,329
I think the Titans would help their cause by selecting a jersey design and sticking with it. A nice simple design would probably be best. Every iconic club around the world uses a simple design that is easy to recognise. They definitely need some one like Bennett or Gould in charge of their football department to build a strong squad and culture. Until they do that they'll continue to underachieve.
I honestly think the best rebrand for the Titans would be a color change. Keep the Titans name & current logo (which is a vast improvement on the original Titans logo - those swords.. yeeeech!), switch to something more unique in the NRL than blue & yellow.
 

Colk

Bench
Messages
3,163
I honestly think the best rebrand for the Titans would be a color change. Keep the Titans name & current logo (which is a vast improvement on the original Titans logo - those swords.. yeeeech!), switch to something more unique in the NRL than blue & yellow.

What would you suggest?
 
Messages
6,407
I honestly think the best rebrand for the Titans would be a color change. Keep the Titans name & current logo (which is a vast improvement on the original Titans logo - those swords.. yeeeech!), switch to something more unique in the NRL than blue & yellow.
I love their new logo. One of the best in the game. Gold should be their primary colour.

Maybe something like the Crushers?
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,714
Abdo reckons Redcliffe's finances are amongst the top four NRL clubs. It'll be interesting to see if their strong financial position translates to success on the field and helps them build a strong fanbase.
Hasn't necessarily equalled success for other clubs and teams both in the NRL and around the world. Especially in leagues with salary caps.
They'll have no trouble convincing old school Redcliffe fans to become active supporters, but I don't know how many exist.
Not enough to support an NRL side, and they've undoubtedly already burned a portion of them by naming the team "the" instead of doubling down on their Redcliffe heritage.
That means they'll likely have to create new fans.
Which all of their marketing and branding decisions so far have made significantly harder.

Without even getting into the confused spilt markets that only make sense on paper, they've basically tried to have their cake and eat it too by being a "traditional club" and a new club that is capable of building a new fan base at the same time. In other words they're trying to appeal to everybody, and as a result they'll appeal to nobody.

I'm sure they'll be able to bank on the novelty factor for at least a couple of years (unless the team is absolutely abysmal of course), but after that they'll be banking on on-field success to push interest.

Of course this was all intentional on their part, because what they really want is for the team to be the Redcliffe Dolphins, but knew that there was no appetite for that at the NRL. So they played at being a "Brisbane"/"SEQ" team to win the license, and are now tanking the concept so they can justify turning the team into the purely Redcliffe side that they really want the team to be, but I digress.
If they're successful on the field then I can see them taking the role of the Storm and attracting support from Queenslanders who don't like the Broncos or Cowboys.
Any team that's successful and has even the loosest of connections to Qld can be that team, I mean the Raiders were that team in 80s and 90s. That's also not the reason they were given a license.
We won't know how they fare until they've been around for a few seasons. If nothing else it'll be interesting to see how everything unfolds.
They're following a well worn path, so if they are successful despite themselves then they'll be the exception to the rule.
I think the Titans would help their cause by selecting a jersey design and sticking with it. A nice simple design would probably be best. Every iconic club around the world uses a simple design that is easy to recognise.
This BS again...

Sure their brand could use some sprucing up as it's generic in every way (abandon the blue and gold for a start), but jersey design is the least of the Titans problems.

Besides, the jersey they're wearing as soon as they win something will be embraced as their 'iconic' jersey, and it won't matter how aesthetically pleasing it is,
They definitely need some one like Bennett or Gould in charge of their football department to build a strong squad and culture. Until they do that they'll continue to underachieve.
The last thing they need is more chiefs.

What they really need to do is allow a coach the time and the freedom to build a successful side, while accepting that there will be set backs, and without butting in and second guessing their every decision.

Hiring players against the coaches wishes for commercial reasons is unforgivable, and they've done it more than once.
They also own a shopping centre and their own stadium that generates revenue from concerts and other football clubs.
I highly doubt that Dolphin Stadium is a profitable business. I'd be willing to bet that it's maintenance is covered by profits from the leagues club and other ventures.

A quick Google search shows that the only events they have scheduled there are Dolphins and Roar matches, and it's only a matter of time before the Roar move on because their fans hate playing there, and they're only there because there's no better option for them at the moment.
 
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The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,714
What would you suggest?
It's too little, too late now, as it's been done, but I've been saying since day dot that they should have done effectively what the Vegas Golden Knights ended up doing a decade later.

1393482295.0.jpg

Metallic gold fit the GC identity, and was the only way they were going to achieve something unique and interesting that wouldn't clash but still made sense. Pairing it with black and/or dark grey just made sense because they work so well together, and the only other predominantly black team at the time they joined the league was the Warriors.

If they tried to do it now the similarities between their brand and the Golden Knights would quickly be pointed out, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the GKs and NHL go after them considering that both teams would end up with very similar logos as well.
 

mongoose

First Grade
Messages
9,344
If there are 2 teams that need to change their jersey colours and design its the Titans and Cowboys imo - both seem like a blend of other teams jerseys.

This Cowboys away jersey is ok but the predominantly blue home one is too similar to other teams but much less memorable

Both Titans jerseys have too much white and soft colouring and are just generally uninspiring to look at
 
Messages
6,407
Hasn't necessarily equalled success for other clubs and teams both in the NRL and around the world. Especially in leagues with salary caps.

Not enough to support an NRL side, and they've undoubtedly already burned a portion of them by naming the team "the" instead of doubling down on their Redcliffe heritage.

Which all of their marketing and branding decisions so far have made significantly harder.

Without even getting into the confused spilt markets that only make sense on paper, they've basically tried to have their cake and eat it too by being a "traditional club" and a new club that is capable of building a new fan base at the same time. In other words they're trying to appeal to everybody, and as a result they'll appeal to nobody.

I'm sure they'll be able to bank on the novelty factor for at least a couple of years (unless the team is absolutely abysmal of course), but after that they'll be banking on on-field success to push interest.

Of course this was all intentional on their part, because what they really want is for the team to be the Redcliffe Dolphins, but knew that there was no appetite for that at the NRL. So they played at being a "Brisbane"/"SEQ" team to win the license, and are now tanking the concept so they can justify turning the team into the purely Redcliffe side that they really want the team to be, but I digress.

Any team that's successful and has even the loosest of connections to Qld can be that team, I mean the Raiders were that team in 80s and 90s. That's also not the reason they were given a license.

They're following a well worn path, so if they are successful despite themselves then they'll be the exception to the rule.

This BS again...

Sure their brand could use some sprucing up as it's generic in every way (abandon the blue and gold for a start), but jersey design is the least of the Titans problems.

Besides, the jersey they're wearing as soon as they win something will be embraced as their 'iconic' jersey, and it won't matter how aesthetically pleasing it is,

The last thing they need is more chiefs.

What they really need to do is allow a coach the time and the freedom to build a successful side, while accepting that there will be set backs, and without butting in and second guessing their every decision.

Hiring players against the coaches wishes for commercial reasons is unforgivable, and they've done it more than once.

I highly doubt that Dolphin Stadium is a profitable business. I'd be willing to bet that it's maintenance is covered by profits from the leagues club and other ventures.

A quick Google search shows that the only events they have scheduled there are Dolphins and Roar matches, and it's only a matter of time before the Roar move on because their fans hate playing there, and they're only there because there's no better option for them at the moment.
They've signed Sam Verrils and Keiran Foran for next season. If they stay fit then they might bump them into the lower half of the top eight, but only if they get their defence right. Their problem this year has been inexperience in their spine. Getting rid of Kevin Proctor after his antics is a move in the right direction.
 

MugaB

First Grade
Messages
5,419
If there are 2 teams that need to change their jersey colours and design its the Titans and Cowboys imo - both seem like a blend of other teams jerseys.

This Cowboys away jersey is ok but the predominantly blue home one is too similar to other teams but much less memorable

Both Titans jerseys have too much white and soft colouring and are just generally uninspiring to look at
Cowboys should stick to Navy and grey/silver,
Titans Gold and Teal/Cyan blue
 
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