NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

[T-Boon]

what is this Long Post Sunday?

 

[Perth Red]

You're absolutely right. The peace deal did FAR more damage than the war, and in late 1997-98, a truly national NRL was salvageable from the wreckage of the war.

Just look at the lineup of teams in 1998, the first year of the NRL with 20 teams competing:

3 Queensland teams:
Brisbane Broncos
Gold Coast Chargers
NQ Cowboys

4 Interstate/NZ teams:
Adelaide Rams
Auckland Warriors
Canberra Raiders
Melbourne Storm

3 Regional NSW teams
Illawarra Steelers
North Sydney Bears (*moving to Central Coast)
Newcastle Knights

10 Sydney teams
Balmain Tigers
Canterbury Bulldogs
Cronulla-Sutherland Sharks
Manly-Warringah Sea-Eagles
Parramatta Eels
Penrith Panthers
South Sydney Rabbitohs
St George Dragons
Sydney Roosters
Western Suburbs Magpies

Now, yes.. that IS a Sydney-heavy competition.. but if the NRL just held off on Melbourne (keeping Perth in the competition instead) then Melbourne could have been a relocation destination for a Sydney club.. or a relocation/merger with the Rams (ala Brisbane Lions in AFL) to open a spot for the Storm.

The whole thing was screwed by self-interest and short term thinking.

Ideally we would have kept perth and crushers and kept 20 clubs. Mergers as happened could have brought Sydney down to 8 clubs. Sure it would have been a financial challenge but it would literally have set up the nrl for the next 40-50 years and some tough first few years would have eventually paid off for the game. Instead we put ourselves decades behind afl, and quite possibly those decisions in 97 will mean we will will never overtake them as Australia’s #1footy code again.

 

[flippikat]

Ideally we would have kept perth and crushers and kept 20 clubs. Mergers as happened could have brought Sydney down to 8 clubs. Sure it would have been a financial challenge but it would literally have set up the nrl for the next 40-50 years and some tough first few years would have eventually paid off for the game. Instead we put ourselves decades behind afl, and quite possibly those decisions in 97 will mean we will will never overtake them as Australia’s #1footy code again.

You can't have Reds and Crushers in 1998 with 20 teams unless two other 1998 teams get binned.

I would have kept Perth (and delayed Melbourne, pending relocation/merger options), and maybe merged the Chargers & Crushers into a 2nd Brisbane team (South Queensland Chargers), playing a game or two per season on the GC.

 

[Perth Red]

You can't have Reds and Crushers in 1998 with 20 teams unless two other 1998 teams get binned.

I would have kept Perth (and delayed Melbourne, pending relocation/merger options), and maybe merged the Chargers & Crushers into a 2nd Brisbane team (South Queensland Chargers), playing a game or two per season on the GC.

I’d have forced two mergers in Sydney. Roosters and tigers, Wests and doggies, sharks and dragons, or similar, to free up the spots. Or as you said encouraged a Sydney team to move to melbourne. Other option would have been manly to gosford full time and bears and roosters to merge to become the Northen city bears or roosters.
The other thing the nrl should have done is what afl did and had variable grants. I’d have also introduced a total expenditure cap so clubs didn’t spend themselves into oblivion.
What could have been.

 

[Perth Red]

You can't have Reds and Crushers in 1998 with 20 teams unless two other 1998 teams get binned.

I would have kept Perth (and delayed Melbourne, pending relocation/merger options), and maybe merged the Chargers & Crushers into a 2nd Brisbane team (South Queensland Chargers), playing a game or two per season on the GC.

lookks like the fans in gosford have given up as well. Less than 4k at yesterday’s game! Tickets were cheap (ish) as well.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

lookks like the fans in gosford have given up as well. Less than 4k at yesterday’s game! Tickets were cheap (ish) as well.

Fair point. If Perth's bid is judged by how many people come to see 2 interstate teams play one another then the same should go for the Central Coast Bears' prospects.

 

[Pippen94]

You can't have Reds and Crushers in 1998 with 20 teams unless two other 1998 teams get binned.

I would have kept Perth (and delayed Melbourne, pending relocation/merger options), and maybe merged the Chargers & Crushers into a 2nd Brisbane team (South Queensland Chargers), playing a game or two per season on the GC.

At time their was talk of Balmain / crushers / easts brisbane 3 way merger.

Also gold coast & hunter mariners but the chargers knocked them back & storm got their players.

 

[LeagueXIII]

By the early 90’s RL in WA was booming, over 10k registered players, two league journos employed in the local media, 26k turning up for the reds first game. And that was before we had mass immigration from RL regions to Perth. To say RL can’t be successful and grow outside of two states it grew up in is just nonsense. Yes it’s hard work, yes it’s long term investment, yes it needs leadership and strategy but it is very possible as afl is showing. It’s an east coast sport not because of any strange phenomenon that limits its interest, but because the game has lacked vision, leadership and ambition since the early 90’s.

I recall back then the local GF being televised on Perth TV. Belmont Steelers were paying players. I think former Australian prop Dave Brown had a season or two over there.

 

[flippikat]

At time their was talk of Balmain / crushers / easts brisbane 3 way merger.

Also gold coast & hunter mariners but the chargers knocked them back & storm got their players.

A Brisbane Tigers team (as above) in 1998 would have solved a few problems - secure future for Balmain, 2nd Brisbane team having a bit of history from the 2 Tigers partners.. and as it merges the Crushers & Balmain, it would have opened a spot in a 20-team competition for the Melbourne Storm to be added without losing the Perth Reds.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Saturating QLD and NSW with more teams is not going to turn people off other codes. Do you realize League already has saturation media in QLD with just 3 teams? Doesn't stop people from following the Lions.
Has League grown in Sydney in the past 20 years with 9 teams? if anything it's shrunk. The demographics of Sydney have changed dramatically over the decades. Inner suburbs becoming more and more gentrified and unaffordable, many suburbs inhabited with majority of people who don't speak English as a first language now. Having a team in a place like Perth or Adelaide is going to grow the game more than doubling down on propping up suburban clubs who can't grow their fanbase in their current locations.

I think league has suffered from the SL War and 15 or so years of being smashed by the media, basically portraying the game as a meathead sport. This turned alot of those swinging supporters away they followed the game when it was cool to do so ie.during the Tina Turner years.

 

[flippikat]

lookks like the fans in gosford have given up as well. Less than 4k at yesterday’s game! Tickets were cheap (ish) as well.

Yep, the Warriors residency in Gosford is a great test for their interest in showing up for regular games. Much like the Phoenix playing their A-league home games in Woollongong (a location quite keen on getting a top-flight soccer team).

 

[LeagueXIII]

The same thing is happening in Brisbane. All those suburbs within 10 KM of the CBD are full of snobs and high rise apartments. Not exactly a good place for a working class RL fan to raise a family. I cannot see how 2 teams based in the inner suburbs of Brisbane, both playing at Lang Park, will cater to the needs of RL fans who live in the outskirts. It makes sense to have 1 in Moreton Bay, 1 in Logan or southern suburbs like Nathan.

Adelaide and Perth should be in the plans too. I'd put Perth in now and grow the game at the grassroots level in Adelaide and take representative games plus Magic Round to Adelaide Oval just to see just how much interest there is in the game.

I think Sydney should look at strategic mergers to help clubs grow a larger fanbase over a wider area. Imagine how big the Bulldogs would be if they combined with Western Suburbs to form the Western Sydney Bulldogs, covering South Western Sydney?

City of Canterbury-Bankstown
346,302
City of Campbelltown
157,006
City of Liverpool
204,326
City of Fairfield
210,612
Camden Council
78,218
Wollondilly Shire
48,519

Total
1,044,983​

That's almost as big as the Adelaide metropolitan area!

Sharks and St George merge to become Southern Sydney Sharks.

Georges River Council
146,841
Bayside Council
156,058
Sutherland
218,464

Total
523,363

Add Illawarra?

Illawarra
311,317

Southern Sydney + Illawarra = 832,680​

Easts, Souths and Manly to become the Northern Sydney Rabbitohs. Green, red and white.

North Shore

Hornsby Shire
142,667
Ku-ring-gai Council
118,053
Mosman Council
28,475
North Sydney Council
67,658
City of Willoughby
74,302
Municipality of Hunter's Hill
13,199
City of Ryde
116,302

Total
560,656

Northern Beaches
252,878

Northern Beaches + North Shore = 813,534​

So 5 teams.

Northern Sydney Rabbitohs
Parramatta Eels
Penrith Panthers
Southern Sydney Sharks
Western Sydney Bulldogs

Older fans will be pissed off, but younger people who are born after the merger won't give a stuff about it. How many kids born in northern Sydney from 1999 until now are pissed off that the Bears are no longer in the NRL?

You can add Brisbane 2 and 3, NZ 2 and Perth to make it a 16 team competition under this model.

Sea Eagles, Dragons and Tigers brands to be retained with Brisbane Tigers (Easts Tigers), New Zealand Sea Eagles, West Coast Dragons,

Thank goodness you're not the NRL CEO.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Like who....

who are the blue-chip major sponsors of Sydney clubs in the NRL??

Steggles?
Laundy Hotels?
URM?
Oak?
Bryden Lawyers?
aqualand?
Aland?
Whoever is sponsoring the Sharks this year??

Some of those a decent sized companies, some with a “National presence”, but blue-chip?


If they were, many of these these clubs wouldn’t need another 12 bumper-sticker sponsors all over the rest of their jerseys n shorts... which (along with looking ugly IMO) dilutes the impact a sponsor has on a jersey.. And the majority of these bumper stickers are little-known, regionally isolated businesses.

So yes. There are plenty of sponsors, the vast majority arent blue chip or national at all.

Big name / blue chip / National sponsors have deserted the NRL in a big way, and particularly the Sydney clubs. St George Bank is possibly the only blue chip sponsor of a Sydney club this year...

Kia, Toyota, Vodafone, are blue-chip, big corporates... And international companies. All sponsoring one-team-towns outside NSW.

And while Telstra sponsors the comp, Sydney clubs on the whole don’t attract national sponsors these days, especially compared to the one-team-towns.

Thats not my opinion that came from Paul Kennedy who wrote the book on Melbourne Storm about the salary cap.

He mentions it in this podcast. News Ltd is the reason we dont have Perth.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAC&usg=AOvVaw1kNi1om5eAjhl-Sg7pRl0D

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Thats not my opinion that came from Paul Kennedy who wrote the book on Melbourne Storm about the salary cap.

He mentions it in this podcast. News Ltd is the reason we dont have Perth.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/88-storm-cloud-with-paul-kennedy/id1441882710?i=1000493821851&ved=2ahUKEwixxM3XwK_vAhXhxjgGHTU_CMsQFjAAegQIARAC&usg=AOvVaw1kNi1om5eAjhl-Sg7pRl0D

Ahhh - an ex AFL player on the ABC payroll...

 

[LeagueXIII]

Ahhh - an ex AFL player on the ABC payroll...

Listen to the podcast...you may be surprised.

 

[taipan]

The thing is Perth and the other Sydney clubs including the Sharks, made the decision to go over to SL.Murdoch("I prefer AFL") would have been stuffed ,if they gave him the middle finger.The code would have had those mlllions in the Bank.
And we would have retained reasonably good leaders in Arko and Quayle to steer the good ship X111
If they hadn't, I doubt SL would have gotten off the ground and Perth would be still in the comp.

So the decision to create SL,(and we can argue whether before or after was worse) was the worst decision made in the code since its inception.
We had at times ordinary CEOS following.I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Moffett did, except pedalling a Malvern Star around France.

NO SL MEANT ,NO MASSIVE DISRUPTION, NO ROBBING OUR FORT KNOX,NO DISGRUNTLED FANS AND BEST OF ALL NO MURDOCH .You know it makes sense.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Listen to the podcast...you may be surprised.

Cheers mate I’ve got a bit of catching up on others but might give it a whirl

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Thank goodness you're not the NRL CEO.

I'm just throwing ideas around. We need to think of what Sydney will be like in 20 or 30 years from now and prepare for it. I think as Sydney sprawls outwards and its demographics change it will lead to the inner city clubs struggling to grow or even maintain their fanbase.

Southern Sydney and Illawarra aren't big enough to support more than one team. There's a reason St George and Illawarra merged. Brian Smith left the Dragons because he thought it was a dying club.

Southern Sydney Sharks has a good sound to it. Sea blue, blood red and grey is the perfect colour combination for it.

Northern Sydney needs representation and a team there can take in the city, which has similar demographics. It could be Northern Sydney Roosters or Rabbitohs. If it uses the name Sydney it could still capture this market. If Easts are to survive and thrive they'll need to do exactly that. I cannot see Manly surviving on their own if Easts make a bold effort to capture this market.

Souths have older fans keeping them strong for now due to nostalgia, but what will happen in 30 years from now when the Russell Crowes, Andrew Dentons and Ray Martins are dead? Will the younger generation step up to support them?

I can see Sydney Roosters being the sole survivor if things keep going as they are. Souths no longer have a defined location to represent and will struggle after the oldies are long gone.

Rabbitohs, Dragons and Sea Eagles might have a brighter future in Perth, Adelaide and NZ.

 

[flippikat]

I'm just throwing ideas around. We need to think of what Sydney will be like in 20 or 30 years from now and prepare for it. I think as Sydney sprawls outwards and its demographics change it will lead to the inner city clubs struggling to grow or even maintain their fanbase.

Absolutely, totally & utterly 100% agree with you.

There's a place for suburban teams playing in rinky suburban grounds with hills & very little cover from the elements.

It's called 2nd tier.

About time the game's ambitions were higher than just being a Sydney comp with other clubs tacked-on.

Actually, the time for that change was the '90s, so we're well overdue.

 

[The_Frog]

There's a reason St George and Illawarra merged.

Illawarra had no choice financially and St George gained the south coast junior nursery. It was a no-brainer really.