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NSW Origin

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
21,662
He didn't run the ball is true but QLD's halves were just as bad. Moses actually had more kick metres then DCE and Munster was poor.
It isn't as though they won the game on the back of a huge effort from their number 7 though.

Which is my point about the number 7 being able to be good without being great and teams still can win
If both number 7s are shit... And they were. Obviously one is still going to get a win. That doesn't mean a good number 7 is irrelevant.

Your logic is completely f**ked. Literally every position can play absolutely f**ked and still grab a win.

Nathan Cleary teams are undefeated this year and average a 35 point win. That's at club level. And origin.

Without him neither team's scoring anywhere near that amount of points, and their defence is leaking more points. 5 games he has missed between NSW and Panthers. Getting a pretty big sample which shows when he's running the teams those sides are a lot better. Come up with whatever excuse you want. But anyone who doesn't hate him can see just how important he is. Take him out of a tem and suddenly they're vulnerable.
 

Munky

Bench
Messages
4,721
I like that Yeo proved he is the second best ball running halfback NSW have.

When he shifted to first receiver things started happening. He's pretty much become the player Cartwright should be.

If the pass is on he passes it, if not he runs it and bends the line. None of this stupid offload for the sake of it.

Watching Moses crab and pass the ball ten metres from the defence was hilarious.

To'o really needs to get the dropped bomb out of his game. He catches it cleanly he makes 30 metres, however the drop is a killer.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,545
If both number 7s are shit... And they were. Obviously one is still going to get a win. That doesn't mean a good number 7 is irrelevant.

Your logic is completely f**ked. Literally every position can play absolutely f**ked and still grab a win.

Nathan Cleary teams are undefeated this year and average a 35 point win. That's at club level. And origin.

Without him neither team's scoring anywhere near that amount of points, and their defence is leaking more points. 5 games he has missed between NSW and Panthers. Getting a pretty big sample which shows when he's running the teams those sides are a lot better. Come up with whatever excuse you want. But anyone who doesn't hate him can see just how important he is. Take him out of a tem and suddenly they're vulnerable.

So the other 6 Origin guys add nothing to do with those margins?

We have 7 current Origin players
JFH that was the NZ player of the year last year
Another 2 in Kikau and Crichton that were in the Dally M team of the year

The team is stacked and hence we are flogging teams.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
21,662
So the other 6 Origin guys add nothing to do with those margins?

We have 7 current Origin players
JFH that was the NZ player of the year last year
Another 2 in Kikau and Crichton that were in the Dally M team of the year

The team is stacked and hence we are flogging teams.
The stacked team lost last night. So obviously Nathan had a hell of a lot to do with getting those stacked players firing.

Not that you'll ever admit it. All you do is talk shit to create reasons why Nathan had nothing to do with anything. Unless it's a loss. Suddenly it's all his fault
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,545
Yes. There's enough games this year to objectively measure the difference now.

We aren't talking club game. We are talking a game that the forwards didn't aim up and the ref allowed the ruck to be very slow and very stop start. As a result you get grinds.

Looking at the last few QLD wins. all are in the same style of grinding footy all with Sutton as ref

2018 - QLD 18-12
2019 - QLD 18-14
2020 - QLD 18-14
2020- QLD 20-14
2021- QLD 20-18

Cleary played in all but last night. I am not blaming him for the losses btw just saying that when things don't go right it is hard for a number 7.

Same thing last night. Weakened forward pack, Slow rucks and little to no 10m

A few times early on NSW tried to spread it and Moses was pumped by Holmes. That isn't on the 7 it is the service inside the same service Cleary would of been receiving.

Mitchell lost got pumped in a tackle by Hunt attacking the line. Then missed a tackle on Ponga for Hunt to go the other end and score. When Hunt scored that try Martin was on the wing and Haas standing at centre again not something a 7 being there would fix
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,545
The stacked team lost last night. So obviously Nathan had a hell of a lot to do with getting those stacked players firing.

Not that you'll ever admit it. All you do is talk shit to create reasons why Nathan had nothing to do with anything. Unless it's a loss. Suddenly it's all his fault

The stacked lost to another Stacked team. As has happened for Panthers in the past
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
21,662
We aren't talking club game. We are talking a game that the forwards didn't aim up and the ref allowed the ruck to be very slow and very stop start. As a result you get grinds.
Queensland have gotten away with slowing the ruck all series.

Game 3 NSW ptb speed - 3.72s. 54% possession
Game 2 NSW ptb speed - 3.98s. 51% possession
Game 1 NSW ptb speed - 3.69s. 51% possession


Last night was the only game of the series NSW and QLD were even close in the ruck. Queensland had much faster play the balls to us the first 2 games and last night was nearly identical.


Looking at the last few QLD wins. all are in the same style of grinding footy all with Sutton as ref

2018 - QLD 18-12
2019 - QLD 18-14
2020 - QLD 18-14
2020- QLD 20-14
2021- QLD 20-18

Cleary played in all but last night. I am not blaming him for the losses btw just saying that when things don't go right it is hard for a number 7.

That's funny. Last year it was all Clearys fault. But look at each game there:
2018 - Jimmy was the main man. Cleary was only there to assist. Just as he did at club level as no one wanted him being the main man because Jimmy was the better player

2019 - Cleary was paired with Walker and neither knew their role. Cleary's role didnt work with Walker. His role only worked with Jimmy

2020 Game 1 - Cleary was poor. Whole team seemed to think a win would just happen.

2020 Game 3 - Cleary was best NSW player but didn't matter when his team were pumped across the park and only had 43% ball in poor field position

2018 and 2019 Cleary had the actual role you think that's all he's good for. He was only present to let others star. Specifically his halves partner He wasn't the Cleary he became in 2020 when he finally become the main man for Penrith and was allowed to develop into the best half in the game.
Same thing last night. Weakened forward pack, Slow rucks and little to no 10m

A few times early on NSW tried to spread it and Moses was pumped by Holmes. That isn't on the 7 it is the service inside the same service Cleary would of been receiving.

Weakened forward pack? The only change from Game 2 was Finucane in for Saifiti. The ruck speed for NSW was the same as Game 1and faster than Game 2. The pack was picked defensively for this series and our backs have gotten us the metres to keep our pack fresher defensively.

NSW made more metres and dominated possession. Cleary learned how to play and where to stand with limited space. Isaah Yeo playmaking in the middle helps create space for his 7. But Cleary is willing to take a hit and if the space closes up Cleary will run it himself and get a quick play the ball so the next play has more chance. Moses doesn't have that mentality. It's extremely basic but it makes a world of difference.
Mitchell lost got pumped in a tackle by Hunt attacking the line. Then missed a tackle on Ponga for Hunt to go the other end and score. When Hunt scored that try Martin was on the wing and Haas standing at centre again not something a 7 being there would fix
Those misses on Hunt were mostly by Payne Haas. But Cleary is oneof the best cover defenders in the game. Even before he was the best game managing half he was saving tries that looked for all money to be tries. Cleary being there makes a huge difference defensively.

Firstly because the opposition don't get the same
cheap opportunities NSW gifted QLD with poor kicks. But also because Cleary is consistently the hardest working player on the field. Covering more ground than every other player. Playing at a higher intensity than other players and so on. He makes a difference defensively. Even with one arm he was shutting down opportunities in Game 2.

Cleary was a good solid half up until 2019 but his role was usually to let his key playmaker control games. So his game management only ever came on display occasionally when Moylan and then Jimmy was out. Thats where we saw glimpses of his game management and leadership

2020 rolls along and suddenly it becomes his team. His game management evolves and he quickly became the best player in the game. But he still wasn't perfect and the mistakes he has made he learned from them to return in 2021 an even better player. The reason he continues to improve is because he works harder to get rid of those flaws in his game. He studies games and situations to see where he could have done better. It's remarkable just how much difference even little decisions can make. But also how accurate Cleary is in being able to execute his plays. Cleary knows where he wants the ball and he can get it there with pinpoint accuracy.
 

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