NSWRL Wests and BRET

[gronkathon]

It has been tried half arsed before but neveer under the proposed structure.

Time will tell whether it is a genuine step or simply Sheensanigans in due course

 

[meltiger]

It has been tried half arsed before but neveer under the proposed structure.

Time will tell whether it is a genuine step or simply Sheensanigans in due course

You mean all those players who are going to train full time under WT coaches staff within a 175k or so salary cap?


Obviously they are going to sleep on the bleachers at Concord too given the kind of money they will be earning


;-)

With 2 NSW Cup teams you have alot more room to keep Toyota Cup players who will be too old to play Toyota Cup the following year.

Franklin you said "That makes sense instead of trying to work out which of 2 to play. a straight swap with the feeder team will be so much easier".
Well you pick the player that is playing better. It's not rocket science.

Or Skando...


But I digress, good post, but things just can't be that simple mate

 

[meltiger]

Again, why would you halve our junior base?

& this is the major issue for me.


I just don't see how less is better.


& again, I stand by my comment earlier in the thread about who Farah would currently be playing for had we moved lock stock and barrel to Campbelltown, it certainly wouldn't be the Tigers (*cough* Canterbury), similar to Lawrence in the reverse scenario, if we had merged the entire club, and trained out of the Sth West, would Lawrence be playing for us, or a team equally as far away with more money (Dogs/Parra etc)


What we have, is a Joint Venture, at NRL level, representing two unique catchments. We don't need to merge the lower grades in order to service the JV representing our clubs at NRL level.

 

[gronkathon]

175k Salary Cap? :lol:

There will essentially be 11 players from outside the NRL squad contracted to training under the WT regime. I was wrong about the exact training regime though. I have had that clarified as the same schedule as the NYC basically with work or further education requirements.

But we will see if it comes off.

 

[meltiger]

Ok, fair cop, just went back and checked by PM's - I think I misread what someone (Involved in Western Suburbs) said to me, the number was slightly higher too.

Does anyone know what the actual salary cap is for the lower grades?

 

[gronkathon]

I was told during the season but will have to double check as I have forgotten the exact figure. Alot of creative accounting happens with regard to sponsors payments and putting portions of wages into seond tier cap of the NRL squad.

As soon as I get a message back I will post it here

 

[Front-Rower]

& this is the major issue for me.


I just don't see how less is better.


& again, I stand by my comment earlier in the thread about who Farah would currently be playing for had we moved lock stock and barrel to Campbelltown, it certainly wouldn't be the Tigers (*cough* Canterbury), similar to Lawrence in the reverse scenario, if we had merged the entire club, and trained out of the Sth West, would Lawrence be playing for us, or a team equally as far away with more money (Dogs/Parra etc)


What we have, is a Joint Venture, at NRL level, representing two unique catchments. We don't need to merge the lower grades in order to service the JV representing our clubs at NRL level.

Who said anything about moving to Campbelltown/Balmain and making that our base? My argument is based around the fact that our club should have its entire club structure run under a wests tigers banner and that means both the Western Suburbs side and Balmain side. I would never hope we abandoned one area for the other. Both areas are what makes us a marketable force in the sporting arena from the inner west to the south west.

And on your point about players not playing for us, please there a number of players who have already slipped that net and not just for us but a number of clubs.

 

[gronkathon]

Asked the guys at NSWRL and they came back that there is no salary cap for the 2011 State Cup. The only cap that applies is NRL contracted players must fit under that cap and any player called up from outside the top tier must be accomodated within the second tier cap

 

[meltiger]

Thanks Gronk, don't want you to ring them back (Appreciate the effort as is) but do we have any idea what the second tier cap is? Even roughly?


FR - Sure, some players slip through the net, but are you telling me if a kid growing up in either disctrict is forced to train half the time, 50,60 whatever kms away from home, and Parra or the Bulldogs come in with an offer... That they are going to stay with us? No way.

 

[gronkathon]

That is an NRL thing with the second tier cap. Plus it is confusing as hell as to exactly the amounts calculated into the cap for lower grade players wages etc and the fact it can be loaded to the next seasons second tier. Long and the short of it the NRL caps are just needlessly confusing.

Just did a quick search of the NRL site and it seems $350,000 is the figure for second tier cap

 

[meltiger]

So 350 for 11. Def better than the 175 I was suggesting (Apologies, was a complete misread of my pms)


Argument is a waste of time anyway, decision has been made. We'll see in 12/24 months whether it was the right call or not.

 

[gronkathon]

It's all we can do

 

[N.C.]

Thanks Gronk, don't want you to ring them back (Appreciate the effort as is) but do we have any idea what the second tier cap is? Even roughly?


FR - Sure, some players slip through the net, but are you telling me if a kid growing up in either disctrict is forced to train half the time, 50,60 whatever kms away from home, and Parra or the Bulldogs come in with an offer... That they are going to stay with us? No way.

I see what you are saying... But if a player would rather sign on with the Bulldogs because training is closer to home then rugby league is in worse shape than I thought. Still, I reckon the stories of Chris Heighington commuting down from Umina to train at Concord are worth reflecting on right about now...

But the kid who goes to the Bulldogs might have other reasons, like that he'd rather play for a club that has only one reserve grade team. Because he might, you know, want to play first grade one day. Maybe lining up behind 25 players is more appealing, and better for his development, than lining up behind 50 players... Not to mention the variety of coaches and training staff he has to impress. Just a thought.

Anyway, this just highlights the fact that the State Cup is not part of a clear pathway to the NRL. I know you have said earlier that it is a grass-roots competition but I think that's a huge problem for NSWRL at the moment - by the time you reach the State Cup you should be a bona-fide reserve grader... an NRL standard player waiting in the wings for your next crack at the big stage.

In the absence of such a proper reseve grade contest, this whole discussion seems like one group discussing apples while another group talks oranges. Having said that, I would like to see a single reserve grade team for the Tigers, and for the record I'd be happy for that team to bear the Magpies logo. Maybe they could alternate from one home ground to the next like the first grade team does, and then we could call them the Magpie Wanderers. I think that would be fantastic.

Of course it couldn't work without the Balmain and Western Suburbs clubs fielding teams in other senior competitions as well (you know, the "graass-roots" ones), to make sure locally developed players have a clear path into the top grades, so we wouldn't end up losing them all to the Bulldogs, the Eels and the Dragons (who seem to have a real taste for Tigers juniors at the moment...)

 

[franklin2323]

Well you pick the player that is playing better. It's not rocket science.

Yes but with 2 teams it's harder to judge. 1 team they all play together Sheens can get them playing NRL style so the players fit in when called up.

A few tigers fans I know only go to either Ctown or Leichardt for home games. 9/10 times the games clash so the coaches can't watch both

 

[meltiger]

I see what you are saying... But if a player would rather sign on with the Bulldogs because training is closer to home then rugby league is in worse shape than I thought. Still, I reckon the stories of Chris Heighington commuting down from Umina to train at Concord are worth reflecting on right about now...

But the kid who goes to the Bulldogs might have other reasons, like that he'd rather play for a club that has only one reserve grade team. Because he might, you know, want to play first grade one day. Maybe lining up behind 25 players is more appealing, and better for his development, than lining up behind 50 players... Not to mention the variety of coaches and training staff he has to impress. Just a thought.

Anyway, this just highlights the fact that the State Cup is not part of a clear pathway to the NRL. I know you have said earlier that it is a grass-roots competition but I think that's a huge problem for NSWRL at the moment - by the time you reach the State Cup you should be a bona-fide reserve grader... an NRL standard player waiting in the wings for your next crack at the big stage.

In the absence of such a proper reseve grade contest, this whole discussion seems like one group discussing apples while another group talks oranges. Having said that, I would like to see a single reserve grade team for the Tigers, and for the record I'd be happy for that team to bear the Magpies logo. Maybe they could alternate from one home ground to the next like the first grade team does, and then we could call them the Magpie Wanderers. I think that would be fantastic.

Of course it couldn't work without the Balmain and Western Suburbs clubs fielding teams in other senior competitions as well (you know, the "graass-roots" ones), to make sure locally developed players have a clear path into the top grades, so we wouldn't end up losing them all to the Bulldogs, the Eels and the Dragons (who seem to have a real taste for Tigers juniors at the moment...)

All fair points, I do think we're leaving a hole where you have kids who maybe aren't quite ready by the end of their TC eligibility, but aren't a complete write off. Props most certainly fall into this category alot of the time.


As I said before, we can all go back and forth and not agree, but the decision has been made. We just need to sit back and see if the move helps the JV or not over the next 1 to 2 seasons.


If it gets Sheens more prepared to promote properly from reserve grade where neccesary, rather than the idiotic decisions (Skando over Moors) we saw this year, that i will agree is a positive.

 

[gronkathon]

Moors is a backrower in the clubs view and as such will come into replacement backrow calculations. I only found that out when looking over the likely team

 

[meltiger]

Yet he was outplaying Skando, when playing alongside each other at the Magpies.

I just don't get why Sheens thoughts on who should play where (Bronson / Prop for example) should go ahead of form.

 

[gronkathon]

Skando is a mystery. If he were part of the top squad I would never have renewed my membership again as his continued selection was an utter joke

 

[Highlander]

there is no agreement with Canberra

There Should be!!!