NZ v BOKS 1st ODI

[salivor]

Oz, Taylor has only played 11 one day domestic games, thats why I'd quite like to see him go on the tour of England, to play some of the tour games and generally be in the NZ team environment.

McMillan definetly needs to start performing for his spot in the side again, he's only averaging about 26 in his ODI career which really isn't good enough for a guy who has been in that number 5 or 6 position for NZ for a good 6-7 years now.

I don't know why you'd want to change the opening combo though, Papps and Flemming put on 40 odd together yesterday which is one of the biggest opening partnerships we've had in years. It'll be interesting to see how they play together on their home pitch in Christchurch on Tuesday.

 

[Meth]

I like Fleming at three. He offers a bit of stability, and is a very valuable wicket.

I'm miffed at the fact that Richardson doesn't get a run in the ODI's.Lets face it, our first three wickets often tend to go cheaply. Richarson would be a very good anchor.

 

[southern warrior]

No way Lou Vincent he has had his chances, Was crap.

 

[salivor]

No way Lou Vincent he has had his chances, Was crap.

Exactly. I think he needs to go away and consistantly make runs for 2-3 seasons at the domestic level before he should be considered for re-selection.

 

[Anonymous]

Vincent or Richardson?? For God's sake, don't be ridiculous. Vincent played 60 or so matches and never got past 60 (either as a high score or a career strike rate). Richardson won't help us much if he bats through the innings and makes 70 off 150 balls.

The current team is probably the best, with Mills out and Mason in the only change I might make. I'd love to have Taylor in ahead of Marshall, but due to Marshall's form against Pakistan he probably needs a few more failures before he gets dropped.

 

[Iafeta]

Timbo, a lot of good valid points.

I don't think Joe Yovich is the man though. I've seen him take some whallopings. I'd go for Michael Mason after the first ODI, for sure. He bowls extremely well in New Zealand conditions for CD, it'll be interesting to see if he transfers it to the international scene.

I think Marshall's bubble is about to burst. The Pakistanis really weren't a thinking cricketers team. Sheer talent undoubtably, but they didn't seem to work players out. I think the Proteas are the skilful version of New Zealand in some ways - very talented also, but seem to be clear and rational tacticians like Stephen Fleming is. I think they will continue to work Marshall out. If he had a good domestic record, there'd be no panic after one failure. The fact he doesn't has people scratching their heads again. To me, Peter Fulton is deserving of an opportunity.

Lou Vincent is definitely not the man. His form internationally was atrocious. It was one good innings, 6 failures. Can't have that. I was happy with Papps, the main thing is to get off to a good start - they got to the mid 40's, better than most other opening combinations for NZ, especially those involving Vincent. The key though is to carry on. With the purple patch Fleming is in, once he got to 30, it was a shame he got ran out. That was probably the difference in the end, Smith kind of went on with it, Flem got ran out.

 

[Meth]

Oh well, I concede

I just like Lou Vincent. Maybe it was his emphatic debut, maybe its his energy in the field.

But you're right lads.

 

[ozbash]

i concede to more knowledgable kiwis as well.

i like vincents fielding in ODI,s
and i definitely like the look of taylor who plays for CD.

 

[Anonymous]

Whatever happened to James Franklin? Didn't Hadlee call him the next big thing?

Also Vincent should never be allowed back near a black cap.

 

[southern warrior]

Franklin now bats at 5 for Wellington and either opens or bowls first chage, He doesnt look great.

Lou Vincent must of been the worest specilist batsman in the world.

 

[Iafeta]

Now now SW. Easy going. There are a couple of Banglideshis who may nearly rival Lou.

Ross Taylor is definitely a promising act. Love to see him in there. If only for the fact some poor chum who comes onto these forums dismissed him for 7 once. :roll: He always though was many, many miles ahead of players developing back in Masterton. Class act I believe. I think he and Fulton, along with Papps are the bulk of our future batting resources. I hope Skippy Sinclair can regather his confidence internationally, because he always is one of our best performed domestic players and is a good fielder to boot.

James Franklin hasn't had too bad a season. I thought he lacked maybe 5-10 k's of speed when he came here to Australia. If he could do a bit more strength work on his upper body to give him that, I think he'd be a very good international player - he could slot into Oram's spot as the back up all-rounder and Oram could take Cairns' premier all rounder spot. Clearly he has a good bowling technique and a good ability to swing the ball, however the pace he bowls gives such a small margin of error against top class bowlers. I think he has a bit of a future, provided as I say he can get a bit more muscular frame to allow him to put the ball through a bit quicker and to obviously help prevent stress injuries.

 

[Anonymous]

Yovich is embarrassing, he's never going to get selected.

As for Franklin, what perplexed me was that in his debut season (2000/01) he was bowling around the high 120s/low 130s kph mark, and that was back when we had the dodgy NZ speed ball radar. When he went to Australia the next season I naturally expected him to be comfortably in the 130s, but he was struggling to hit 125. Based on his first season I thought he showed promise with the ball, I dunno what happened after that :? I think he can play an Oram like role, he could bat as high as 6 or 7 at international level and open the bowling if necessary.

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't even know he could bat. When they last toured he I can't remember him batting above 10. I thought he was quite a promising player actually and he seemed to fade away soon after that series.

For some reason I got the impression that Yovich was a good bowler. All I know of domestic Kiwi cricket is what I read on the net so I don't know where I got it from if it's wrong. Other than the main three (Bond, Tuffey and Butler) as far as pace goes (i.e. not Oram and co.) who is next in the pecking order. I would imagine Mason? From the Pakistan tour I thought Walmsey and Canning seemed pretty average.

 

[Iafeta]

He bats about 5 I think for Wellington Timbo. A lot of our lower order are capable enough batsman domestically, transferring it to the International level though is something altogether different. Franklin with the new ball went okay at different times, as long as with his limited pace he got it full, which was okay, because he swings the ball quite late. It was at the death that he suffered, as a lot of New Zealand bowlers have.

Walmsley is a bowler I personally would think go OK in quick conditions, as he is a bit of a bounce bowler. Canning I thought didn't go too bad, and is probably there or therabouts for New Zealand. Michael Mason currently is definitely next in the pecking order.

 

[Anonymous]

Canning is just a medium-pacer, an Ian Harvey, probably even a bit slower than Harvey. He isn't a pace bowler at all.

Yovich sets all sorts of records for bowling wides, he is nothing special when he gets it right either. He's not young anymore and he'll never play for NZ.

Walmsley is another who is no spring chicken and to me he seemed to lack rhythm and pace during the State Shield. He'll never make an impact at international level, his time has come and gone.

Chris Martin is one of the few players not in the Black Caps squad at the moment who is capable of taking wickets at international level.

 

[Anonymous]

Another 'what happened to': Shayne O'Connor? On the last tour here Cairns, Nash and him were meant to be the best possible Kiwi attack and he played one test and vanished. Is he still around or what?

Agree 100% on Martin. Every time I've seen him play he's looked the goods.

And I'll yield to people who have actually seen Yovich play as to whether or not he's any good but:

1st Class: (54 Matches)

Runs-1565
Bat Avg-23.71
H/S-99

Wkts-150
Bwl Avg-30.98
B/B-7-64

Domestic Limited Overs: (56 Matches)

Runs-652
Bat Avg-17.62
H/S-70

Wkts-68
Bowl Avg-23.70
B/B-4-50

He's also got bowling strike rates in the mid 50's in both forms of the game.

These figures make for quite good reading as a bowling all rounder (another player I thought was a specialist bowler, how bad are Kiwi domestic no.11's??????) and he has been in the Kiwi squad before so what gives?

 

[Dr Crane]

O'Connor retired after the 2002/03 season.

 

[southern warrior]

It was a real bummer O'Connor retired he really left a hole in the Otago bowling.

 

[Anonymous]

I actually wondered about O'Connor the other day and nibblet assured me that he had retired. His career was a real disappointment, he was the best new ball bowler we'd had for years because he swung the ball quite violently and had good control over it, although he was pretty bloody ineffective when the shine came off. He only lasted about 4 years in the NZ team before he apparently went off to "pursue other interests".

And Timbo, Yovich's stats are really not that impressive, they are more or less the norm for NZ bowlers, his FC average of 31 is actually pretty poor. At one day level he is renowned for taking wickets with almost comical regularity despite bowling absolute crap. His economy rate is over 5 (awful by NZ standards) and as I said, he bowls a huge amount of wides. Trust me, he would get murdered at international level.

Also I don't see how the fact that Yovich is a competent batsman means NZ no.11s are bad?

 

[Anonymous]

As I said all I knew of the guy were his stats, which read as OK.

And I wasn't reffering to Yovich specifically when I was talking about the batting prowess of Kiwi no. 11's, more to the fact that people like Mills, Franklin, Oram, Vettori who bat down the order for the Black Caps come in middle-top order in their provincial sides. What I should of said is if someone like Mills, who bats a 10 for NZ can bat at 5 for his provincial side, how bad must his provinces no.11 be????